Timeless Stainless Razors

[muzichead]

I asked Timeless whether they could offer a lighter hollowed out handle in bronze but they weren't interested in the slightest. Very few manufacturers have any interest in this solution.

Mfg's do quite a bit to bring a product to the market which usually includes market testing and I'm sure the testing that was involved with the Bronze from Timeless was no different. Why not seek out a local, to you, machinist to hollow out your handle for you? Were you expecting Timeless to pick up the expense for it? Your asking for a solution to a problem that they just don't see as having and maybe that is why you sense they have no interest in a solution. There first has to be a problem and I'm sure your request for a lighter handle is just not something that comes up very often or there would be another option available.... Not sure why its just such a big deal that they don't offer anything other than the handle they do!! There are plenty of specialized handles out there from other sources as you've found from the Russian Ebay market that could fill your need.

I know Shane at Blackbird has certainly had his share of criticism of the handles he offers for his razors but as most any other Mfg'r he has stuck to what he has designed and put through testing and knows what will work on his razors and stands firm in that aspect and it would seem Matt is the same way... Clearly neither are missing out on many sales because of their handles as sales are very strong for both of them!!

 

[les24preludes]

Mfg's do quite a bit to bring a product to the market which usually includes market testing and I'm sure the testing that was involved with the Bronze from Timeless was no different. Your asking for a solution to a problem that they just don't see as having

Yes, this is all quite true. Manufacturers don't see solid handles as a problem - on the contrary they like the idea that they're "solid". But I have a Wolfman Guerrilla handle which IS hollow and it's 16mm wide and just 63g. So it has been done. It's not too difficult to machine either.

A titanium handle is no problem - a few suppliers. It's just in the case of the Timeless Bronze the colour of the aluminium bronze metal is so unique and pretty it would be nice to have a matching handle. But not going to happen in a lighter weight.

 

[Olegausany]

I asked Timeless whether they could offer a lighter hollowed out handle in bronze but they weren't interested in the slightest. Very few manufacturers have any interest in this solution. But solid SS, copper, brass or bronze is heavy when it gets to 85mm and 12.8mm wide. Like around 80g and upwards. The head of the Bronze weighs 45g and the handle 85g. The handle alone weighs as much as a lot of complete razors.

The good thing about titanium is that for a length of 85mm you can go up to a width of 14mm and still come in at 50g. So nicer to hold. Titanium is hard and looks nice. It's the perfect solution.

I have big hands so prefer 90-100mm handles. I got one 100 mm on eBay from the Russian guy but it is not as light as I was hoping it would be. I like it with titanium head but not with stainless steel ones. So far Maggard MRG handle is my favorite one since it works with every head for me. I found a dual sided titanium handle which should be lighter because of it shape but has to wait until I sell some stuff I don't need.
About 8 hours ago i have tried scalloped SS baseplate and Ti top cap and got a great shave. There was slightly more blade feel and audible feedback and I got razorburn in a few spots where i did touch ups

 

[muzichead]

Yes, this is all quite true. Manufacturers don't see solid handles as a problem - on the contrary they like the idea that they're "solid". But I have a Wolfman Guerrilla handle which IS hollow and it's 16mm wide and just 63g. So it has been done. It's not too difficult to machine either.

A titanium handle is no problem - a few suppliers. It's just in the case of the Timeless Bronze the colour of the aluminium bronze metal is so unique and pretty it would be nice to have a matching handle. But not going to happen in a lighter weight.

Again, your asking them for a solution to a problem they just don't see as having!! Your right in that its been done and as to the difficulty in machining it, that would be up to a machinist as it may look easily done but when a tool is put to a material all kinds of weird things can happen... I know this from experience... Why not take your handle to a machine shop in your area and ask them to hollow out your handle? Then you'd have a matching handle, right?

 

[les24preludes]

... your asking them for a solution to a problem they just don't see as having!!

That's what I've been saying all along - they don't see an issue here.

It's not worth the hassle of altering the stock handle when a titanium handle is perfect apart from the colour. I can live with that. Sometimes aftermarket solutions are the way to go in all kinds of areas. They allow you to re-design products the way you want them.

 

[muzichead]

That's what I've been saying all along - they don't see an issue here.

It's not worth the hassle of altering the stock handle when a titanium handle is perfect apart from the colour. I can live with that. Sometimes aftermarket solutions are the way to go in all kinds of areas.

I'm guessing if they sell 1000 razors and have less than 5 people, (I'm being generous here), say they wish the handle was hollowed out is pretty low as being even borderline as a problem!!

 

[Keto]

@StratMan
This week I'm using a borrowed stainless steel OC / SB .95 Dual comb plate. Last night on a 2-day growth I shaved one side with the open comb and the other side with the SB. on the open comb side it was basically a two pass on the cheeks with cleanup or basically a third pass on the neck area.after with the grain and against the grain on the cheeks they were pretty well good,m a little bit of buffing afterwards not much. On the espy side it was three passes plus some neck extra.l.
I can see where the open come is definitely more efficient, because it took less swipes to do the same thing, imo
One more thing I was using this titanium handle on the stainless steel cap and plate.

 

[les24preludes]

I'm guessing if they sell 1000 razors and have less than 5 people, (I'm being generous here), say they wish the handle was hollowed out is pretty low as being even borderline as a problem!!

We did a poll on razor weights on this forum, and results were 60-40 in favour of weights under 100g. Who knows the figure for customers who contact manufacturers - that brings in a whole other set of variables like personality profiles and sociability.

But it remains the case that the majority of "committed wet shavers", judging from poll responses here, prefer a razor weight under 100g. If we apply that to ALL shavers including carts you would get a complete reversal of your speculation - you'd have to be generous to imagine even 5 in 1,000 would want a razor over 100g.

Also, if you look at the history of shaving, razors were well under 100g until very recently, and even then it's mostly confined to small-batch artisans.

Razors over 100g - too heavy?

 

[muzichead]

We did a poll on razor weights on this forum, and if my memory is correct less than a quarter polled wanted weights over 100g. Who knows the figure for customers who contact manufacturers - that brings in a whole other set of variables like personality profiles and sociability.

But it remains the case that the majority of "committed wet shavers", judging from poll responses here, prefer a razor weight under 100g. If we apply that to ALL shavers including carts you would get a complete reversal of your speculation - you'd have to be generous to imagine even 5 in 1,000 would want a razor over 100g.

Also, if you look at the history of shaving, razors were well under 100g until very recently, and even then it's mostly confined to small-batch artisans.

"MY" speculation was suggesting that 995 people that bought the razor expected it to be a heavy razor to begin with, enjoying said razor and use it as the Mfg'r expected it to be used and the 5 people asked for a lighter weight handle or design in general...

In your case, asking for Matt to change a razor he designed and has sold successfully for some time now, to something a small minority is asking for is not really in his best interests and only seems to perplex you for some strange reason as you have a tendency to bring it up in just about every thread you post in. Have there been other people that have said it was too heavy, there sure has!! Most of those either continued using it, sent it back, or sold on a BST somewhere I'm sure...

As to a majority of people wanting a razor under 100g, I'm sure there are some and I'm sure they don't use the Bronze from Timeless or they do their homework and see that its almost 120g and decide if they want to use it or not before they even buy it... Common sense would tell me if one doesn't want a razor over 100g they wouldn't entertain a Timeless unless they wanted the Ti version. Common sense would tell me if someone wanted a razor under 100g they wouldn't entertain Stainless, Brass, or Bronze in general and would only look at either Aluminum, Zamac, and or Plastic as its a safe bet most of those are under 100g...

Maybe we should set this aside and let the thread get back on topic. Maybe start a new thread where this topic can be thread specific...

 

[les24preludes]

Common sense would tell me if one doesn't want a razor over 100g they wouldn't entertain a Timeless unless they wanted the Ti version. Common sense would tell me if someone wanted a razor under 100g they wouldn't entertain Stainless, Brass, or Bronze in general and would only look at either Aluminum, Zamac, and or Plastic as its a safe bet most of those are under 100g....

Very easy to buy a Stainless, Brass, or Bronze razor and fit an aftermarket handle. It's done all the time, from vintage Gillettes up to - yes - Timeless razors because they're damn good heads. You talk to me as if I'm in the minority in preferring razors under 100g. I'm not - I'm in the majority. Whether manufacturers cater for this majority is up to them. I imagine it's largely a silent majority - customers don't question what they're given, or they do and swap handles themselves.

There's no way of actually answering this question unless manufacturers offered a range of handles including lighter ones, and then looked at the uptake for the different options. Serious razor users in forums like this wouldn't be interested in zamac and plastic handles - aluminium is an outside possibility but titanium is the real choice here.

 

[Olegausany]

Very easy to buy a Stainless, Brass, or Bronze razor and fit an aftermarket handle. It's done all the time, from vintage Gillettes up to - yes - Timeless razors. You talk to me as if I'm in the minority in preferring razors under 100g. I'm not - I'm in the majority. Whether manufacturers cater for this majority is up to them. I imagine it's largely a silent majority - customers don't question what they're given, or they do and swap handles themselves.

There's no way of actually answering this question unless manufacturers offered a range of handles including lighter ones, and then looked at the uptake for the different options. Serious razor users in forums like this wouldn't be interested in zamac and plastic handles - aluminium is an outside possibility but titanium is the real choice here.

+1

 

[member 119848]

Congrats on the Timeless! I have a Feather AS-D2 and several Timeless razors including two SS. I prefer the Timeless razors.

Hi BravoFoxTrot, I was looking at your picture. What a nice display of Timeless razors!
May I ask you which one do you find to be the smoothest?
I had an SS .68 SB in the past, that I sold. Shaved with a few other razors since then, until I settled on the Timeless bronze .38 SB as my daily driver. I find the bronze smooth, but from what I vaguely recall from the SS, the bronze seems to have more blade feel in comparison. Do you agree?

 

[Olegausany]

Hi BravoFoxTrot, I was looking at your picture. What a nice display of Timeless razors!
May I ask you which one do you find to be the smoothest?
I had an SS .68 SB in the past, that I sold. Shaved with a few other razors since then, until I settled on the Timeless bronze .38 SB as my daily driver. I find the bronze smooth, but from what I vaguely recall from the SS, the bronze seems to have more blade feel in comparison. Do you agree?

While I'm not Bravo Foxtrot I have Bronze SB and SS scalloped and I feel that Bronze has more blade feel than SS

 

[member 119848]

Thanks, @Olegausany
It just confirms their "feel"
They are both smooth razors, but the bronze get its characteristic from blade exposure, while the SS (and Ti) hold the blade backwards but with a wider blade gap.

 

[Olegausany]

Thanks, @Olegausany
It just confirms their "feel"
They are both smooth razors, but the bronze get its characteristic from blade exposure, while the SS (and Ti) hold the blade backwards but with a wider blade gap.

Bronze SB has blade gap .38 but is more aggressive for me than SS or Ti with .68 gap. Ti is my favorite so far

 

[StratMan]

@StratMan
This week I'm using a borrowed stainless steel OC / SB .95 Dual comb plate. Last night on a 2-day growth I shaved one side with the open comb and the other side with the SB. on the open comb side it was basically a two pass on the cheeks with cleanup or basically a third pass on the neck area.after with the grain and against the grain on the cheeks they were pretty well good,m a little bit of buffing afterwards not much. On the espy side it was three passes plus some neck extra.l.
I can see where the open come is definitely more efficient, because it took less swipes to do the same thing, imo
One more thing I was using this titanium handle on the stainless steel cap and plate.

thanks for the update.. sounds like this might be the one for me, a step up but not too much would make a nice daily driver..

 

[Keto]

thanks for the update.. sounds like this might be the one for me, a step up but not too much would make a nice daily driver..

Welcome. It might very well be something you might enjoy. I think before I send the OC/SB loaner back, I'll put the OC on one side and my SS Scalloped one the other side of my mug (have to use A TI top cap).
I suppose all those parts are interchangeable SS and TI?

 

[Olegausany]

Welcome. It might very well be something you might enjoy. I think before I send the OC/SB loaner back, I'll put the OC on one side and my SS Scalloped one the other side of my mug (have to use A TI top cap).
I suppose all those parts are interchangeable SS and TI?

Yes they are

 

[StratMan]

@Keto i dont have anything Ti but considering they are both a hard material you shouldnt have any issues interchanging those parts..

today my confidence was a bit too high, and in my daily pursuit of BBS, i went 3 all ATG passes with the 0.95 SB.. got a close shave but a bit too close, first razor burn in a long while.. that will teach me

 

[Bill Wood]

It really makes me curious how the shave is from SB to scalloped to OC plates. I just got the smooth capped scalloped plate .95ss, those barber pole stainless steel handles are beefy. I'm liking the shaver though.

Keto. I can't tell the difference between the SB and the scalloped, other than the aesthetics.