Neutral or negative blade exposure = ride the guard. Positive = YMMV, the more aggressive the more likely ride the cap.
Riding the cap VS riding the guard/comb
- Thread starter samhain666
- Start date
Neutral or negative blade exposure = ride the guard. Positive = YMMV, the more aggressive the more likely ride the cap.
↑ ↑ ↑ ↑Some prefer a steep angle and others a neutral angle.
It takes some experience and experimentation to find what works best for a particular razor on YOUR face.
YMMV
THIS!
Different strokes for different folks. Depends on the razor, the face, the blade.
I recently restarted using a DE after using a Fusion for a few years. I am concentrating on staying neutral (I think that is the right term) with my new Karve B plate razor. Of course, with the Fusion, the pivoting head does all the work, so I have to pay attention to what I am doing. The only observation I can make at this point is that staying neutral shaves closer and in fewer passes than riding the guard, which is my "natural" tendency.
You might want to start a thread on this subject Safety Razor Blade section, I'm pretty sure it will garner a lot of interest.
~doug~
~doug~
Last edited by a moderator:
The correct shaving angle depends on the razor. I came to the conclusion that razors with very low or almost non existent blade gap work best with a shallow angle, while the rest are much better with steep angle. I personally have no problem using both, but for me the steep angle feels more natural, more enjoyable and not forced. The fact that razors with both angles exist means that different people like different angles.
Interesting how we all prefer different things. For me, the less blade gap a razor has, the steeper I use it. Assuming a rigid design anyway.
The only razor that I've used which has almost not blade gap and it works only with shallow angle is my Fatip Grande and my Schone, which are basically the same razor. I can't speak in general, since I probably haven't used any other razor with no blade gap, but there might be some expectations to this rule for sure.
I find steep works best for me with my Fatip razors.
I ride the cap mainly to avoid bad cuts, which I most often get when I bring the razor to my face. It seems natural for me to position the razor on the cap, then rotate it downward as I start to move it. I am afraid if I tried guard first it would be easier to “miss” and cut myself.
(This works on my Parker Variant, and all my Gillettes: Old Type, Tech, and Super Speed.)
(This works on my Parker Variant, and all my Gillettes: Old Type, Tech, and Super Speed.)
The Fatip actually does have some blade gap. Not a lot but enough for me, that if I use it steeply over my harder to shave areas, the blade can flex and cause a weeper.
To eliminate that blade flex, I generally use my Grande with a shallow angle. If, however, it had the same amount of blade support as the Gillette New SC, things might be different but the SC doesnt have as much blade exposure making it less efficient.
if you look closely though, with the proper SC cap, the baseplate supports the blade beyond the edge of the cap making it a very smooth razor for me, steep or shallow. I find it more effective with a steep angle. That brings me to the Gillette Old Type. Mines a Canadian version and has, literally, no blade gap at all.
Because it has no blade gap, and negative blade exposure, it is extremely smooth but also very unforgiving. Having no blade gap at all, or at most 1/2 a blade thickness if you measure the gap from the very edge of the blade, it is also extremely rigid. Combined with the negative blade exposure I dont know that I've made a mistake until I see blood. Master it with a fresh Feather blade and its among the best shaves I've had. My Grande is easier to use and more efficient and my MMOC still betters them all in all areas.
Oh yeah I forgot about the Old Type, which was the model that inspired the Fatip open comb. Same story with the Old Type - it works better with shallow angle.
I use mine steep and with increased pressure. With gap, more shallow. Less gap, more steep.
I guess even with the shaving angles things are relitive. If I don't ride the cap with my Schone and Old Type, I wouldn't be able to get a close shave, since I don't think the blade will reach my whiskers to cut them. I was under the impression that certain razors can only be used with shallow or steep angle, but now after reading this i'm left confused and unsure of anything anymore
.
I guess even with the shaving angles things are relitive. If I don't ride the cap with my Schone and Old Type, I wouldn't be able to get a close shave, since I don't think the blade will reach my whiskers to cut them. I was under the impression that certain razors can only be used with shallow or steep angle, but now after reading this i'm left confused and unsure of anything anymore
You can use any razor at any angle between extremely shallow and extremely steep. My Fatip Grande below. Think of the red line being the surface of your skin when used extremely shallow and the green line being the surface of your skin when used extremely steep.
You can use any razor at any angle between the two extremes. When I use my Grande that shallow, there is little to no pressure on my skin from the blade. All the pressure is applied to the cap between these two green lines.
I use enough pressure so that my skin rises to meet the edge of the blade, like a wave, as the cap slides over my skin. Thats how I shave first pass ATG at up to 80 hours growth with my Grande. Done properly with the right blade I feel very little to nothing at all, just the cap.
Using it extremely steep, I use the comb as my guide to pressure and the steeper I use it, the more pressure that needs to be applied to make the blade touch my skin. That works very well over softer areas such as my cheeks and below my jawline. I can quite easily push the comb into my cheeks a 1/2" and yet, the blades edge has such little pressure against it I barely feel it. What I do feel however, is the very edge of the blade flex over the swirls on either side of my Adam's apple. Thats why I need to shave those areas shallow. So the blade cuts into the hairs at an angle where it cant flex either up or down, only cut straight into the resistance of the whiskers it meets. This is why I prefer the thicker GEM blade. They're .009" thick, more than twice as thick, and rigid, than a DE blade.
Understanding all of this was the key to opening the door to the best, and easiest, shaves of my life. I'm 55, I've been shaving since I was 15 and I started then with a DE, the same Gillette Flare Tip Rocket my father used.
That's a very good idea. If an angle doesn't work with light pressure, it might work better with a bit more. I try not to use any or very little pressure, which explains why I don't get the same results from every razor. I'm just afraid that I might get used to apply pressure and mess up my technique. The next time I use my Schone I will use it a steep angle with more pressure and see how it goes.
My philosophy is that a razor shouldn't be forced in order to work as it ''should''. Which is why I hate razors that provide great shave, but at the cost of me forcing them to do it, especialy if they are modern and on the expensive side. Finding the correct angle with some of my razors is a childs play and getting a nice and comfortable BBS is very enjoyable. Finding the correct angle with some of my razors is a childs play and getting a nice and comfortable BBS is very enjoyable
With some razors, like Fatips, it can be difficult to shave at a neutral angle, equal pressure on both cap and comb. Fatips have generous blade exposure but I understand the Shone has a bit less blade exposure so it would be easier to shave at a neutral angle with one than it would a Fatip. Using an Old Type at a neutral angle is far easier and more gentle on the skin because it has less, negative, blade exposure. This is why I increase pressure when using an Old Type. It simply takes more pressure to make the edge meet the skin. Bearing in mind, when I say I "use pressure" its all very light pressure I apply.
Using a Fatip at a neutral angle takes a refined technique and correct choice of blade because, with so little pressure applied to the blades edge, the blade itself needs to be a very good match to the composition of the hairs its cutting. Sharper, isnt always better. Few would argue that Feather blades are sharper than the old green tuck Derby Extra blades, yet still, after all my time here, those old Derby blades are still in my top three. The reason for that, I believe, is the coating process and the materials applied during that process. That was put into effect in 1959 when a Gillette engineer discovered that most people couldnt tell how sharp a blade was but instead, how well it sliced through the composition of the hair. The Drag Theory was born.
Why do Derby blades for the first three shaves work nearly as well as a fresh Feather blade for me? I believe whatever it is they're coated with just slips right through my hairs without sticking. No sticking, no tugging. GSB on the other hand, a blade favoured by many, is barely better than shaving with a broken bottle to me.
Treat ever razor as an individual, because they are all different and shave differently. This is why a "Fixed Four" is a good idea. During a month of shaves with the same razor, blade and soap, will teach you how each behaves and, for me, highlighted the weaknesses of each component. Then I could go to work fixing those weaknesses. From that, you learn more quickly what works best and what doesnt. Each component needs to work properly for you. What works for others may or may not work for you but most likely it wont because, no one else has your skin, your complexion or your hair composition. Finding each component that works for you is complex, needs a methodical approach and takes time. The effort however, does pay off.
Similar threads
