That’s my favorite way of misusing my Tech. Anything else is uncivilized.
Steep Angle Shaving - Why Would Anyone?
- Thread starter Goblin
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That’s my favorite way of misusing my Tech. Anything else is uncivilized.
I think this is true. I let the razor tell me which angle works best. Most of mine are mild razors with "traditional" geometry and require a shallow angle for maximum efficiency.
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
For aggressive razors or large curvature of top cap & base plate a steep angle works the beat IMO with a short handle because it has less weight and leverage and allows for quick changes of position around the chin area IMO.
(Archived photo, I have a simple photo describing my thoughts better with a high curved top cap & base plate.
Have some great shaves!
(Archived photo, I have a simple photo describing my thoughts better with a high curved top cap & base plate.
Have some great shaves!
Guards/combs are for riding and caps are for holding the blade down.
Cap riding vs guard riding is just a whole Coke vs Pepsi debate. The straight shavers drink Sprite.
- Thread starter
- #26
I couldn't post this before because the site was going weird again...
Thank you for posting that - I haven't seen it before.
I have to say though, that I quite often disagree with the advice that Blackland put in their videos, and this is another example of that.
His example of pivoting "up" from the safety bar perfectly illustrates my point about steep angles being harsher and less efficient. He actually shows how doing this can cause the blade to "dig in", and by using the bar as the pivot point you are engaging the blade at the steeper and less effective end of its range of possible angles. If you begin by riding the cap and pivoting down, when the edge hits the base of the whiskers it has a shallower and more efficient cutting angle. However, it is true that this negates any skin stretching function of the bar.
Of course though, all this only applies to razors with significant positive exposure. As the Gillette ad from @Cal demonstrates, a razor with low blade exposure like the Tech rewards a neutral angle that will engage the safety bar and cap simultaneously - whether you start from the cap or the bar, you are going to end up at pretty much the same place in terms of optimal shave angle for that particular razor. As so often in these threads, it seems like the Tech got it right!
Anyway, I have my answer - in that steep angle shavers feel this approach is necessary for the safety bar to stretch the skin and that this is a preferable way of shaving for them. It sounds like a case of "you pays yer money and takes your choice", and depends whether you prefer the skin stretching effect of the safety bar, or will trade that off for a more efficient blade angle.
Personally, I still find that shallow angles and sliding strokes help me to avoid irritation, because the more effective slicing means less tugging or having to "brute force" the stroke. In fact, it was trying to reduce tugging that made me gravitate to shallow angles in the first place. If that means I am using my razor like a shavette, then so be it - I like shavettes!
And I agree with @Slapo, the R41 had a pretty much unusable level of blade flex and chatter for me at any angle!
Thank you for posting that - I haven't seen it before.
I have to say though, that I quite often disagree with the advice that Blackland put in their videos, and this is another example of that.
His example of pivoting "up" from the safety bar perfectly illustrates my point about steep angles being harsher and less efficient. He actually shows how doing this can cause the blade to "dig in", and by using the bar as the pivot point you are engaging the blade at the steeper and less effective end of its range of possible angles. If you begin by riding the cap and pivoting down, when the edge hits the base of the whiskers it has a shallower and more efficient cutting angle. However, it is true that this negates any skin stretching function of the bar.
Of course though, all this only applies to razors with significant positive exposure. As the Gillette ad from @Cal demonstrates, a razor with low blade exposure like the Tech rewards a neutral angle that will engage the safety bar and cap simultaneously - whether you start from the cap or the bar, you are going to end up at pretty much the same place in terms of optimal shave angle for that particular razor. As so often in these threads, it seems like the Tech got it right!
Anyway, I have my answer - in that steep angle shavers feel this approach is necessary for the safety bar to stretch the skin and that this is a preferable way of shaving for them. It sounds like a case of "you pays yer money and takes your choice", and depends whether you prefer the skin stretching effect of the safety bar, or will trade that off for a more efficient blade angle.
Personally, I still find that shallow angles and sliding strokes help me to avoid irritation, because the more effective slicing means less tugging or having to "brute force" the stroke. In fact, it was trying to reduce tugging that made me gravitate to shallow angles in the first place. If that means I am using my razor like a shavette, then so be it - I like shavettes!
And I agree with @Slapo, the R41 had a pretty much unusable level of blade flex and chatter for me at any angle!
I normally "tune around" with a razor until I discover what seems like the most congenial angle for me. Once I get that going in muscle memory I'll generally use that same razor for several shaves. Doing it that way I don't even have to care if I'm on the bar/comb or cap. I'm shaving; that's what I'm there to do.
"Back when" I had an ATT SE2. I tried it on and off for about a year, but every single time I used it there was blood. It seemed like nobody else got on well with them, either, because I couldn't get rid of it in spite of being willing to piff it. The only technique that ever worked for me with it was to steepen up. The problem with that was it would dull an AC blade in about three uses, which seemed really silly to me and wasn't cost-effective considering AC blades are pretty expensive compared to DE blades.
O.H.
"Back when" I had an ATT SE2. I tried it on and off for about a year, but every single time I used it there was blood. It seemed like nobody else got on well with them, either, because I couldn't get rid of it in spite of being willing to piff it. The only technique that ever worked for me with it was to steepen up. The problem with that was it would dull an AC blade in about three uses, which seemed really silly to me and wasn't cost-effective considering AC blades are pretty expensive compared to DE blades.
O.H.
I’ve only been wet shaving for a few months short of two years, so factor that in. I started out calling myself a steep shaver, but now I sort of let the razor tell me where he/she/its sweet spot is.
I still start with the handle parallel with my face and lift the handle until I feel the blade engage. The razor guides me from there. I haven’t used too many different DE blades but I am wondering if the grind the manufacturer chooses influences the best angle. AC SE blades are easier for me. They don’t vary as much as DE blades, at least for me.
I still start with the handle parallel with my face and lift the handle until I feel the blade engage. The razor guides me from there. I haven’t used too many different DE blades but I am wondering if the grind the manufacturer chooses influences the best angle. AC SE blades are easier for me. They don’t vary as much as DE blades, at least for me.
@Goblin, if you like shallow, have you tried a Schick injector? They shave very shallow. That, plus the rigid blade, gives a very smooth shave.
His example doesn't illustrate that at all. It demonstrates finding one end of the shaving angle range by feeling the blade contact the skin. You can find the other end of the range by pivoting down as you describe. Notice that the blade exposure is reduced at the extremes of the shaving angle range (whether steep or shallow). Blade exposure is at a maximum at the neutral shaving angle. IOW, you can avoid too much blade exposure by moving more shallow or more steep.
You assume shallow is more effective and efficient because of some mental picture in your head. Other people have found a wide range of shaving angles can be effective and efficient, and they have tested this in their own experience. This is what Shane advocates in the video, testing and finding out for yourself what works best.
That’s what I do! And so can you! It’s to the point that when I need to feel the comb or bar barely touching my skin to ensure a comfortable, close, and timely shave, it stymies me.
Not sure I'm following exactly. I guess if what you are doing now is giving you good shaves, it seems to be working all right for you. (?)
No harm in experimenting, though.
After reading the penultimate paragraph in the post you quoted, it seems to me @Goblin's actually done just that - tried it for himself and found what worked best for him.
Shallow/low/off-the-cap works well for me with so many safety razors that it surprises me when one doesn’t — especially when it looks like it would work best with a shallow angle.
No matter what the razor, I ride the cap on the first pass then ride the bar on pass two. Almost never do a third pass.
Card carrying member of the Steep Angle Shaving Alliance (SASA). 
Safety razors that require a shallow angle need not apply.
Safety razors that require a shallow angle need not apply.
Not sure about that. @Goblin seems to be saying that shallow angle shaving must logically and always for all people be more effective and efficient. Earlier, he was using some analogy like slicing vegetables with a knife on a cutting board (to which shaving has no resemblance).
In any case, he chose to dismiss other people's favorable experiences with steeper angle shaving. Note that I do not call it "riding the bar" because that is a caricature that misrepresents the goal. What you want is to find the optimal angle with a particular razor, wherever it may be.
I am mainly shavette shaver. The only right angle is as shallow as possible ! Almost flat on your face. This cannot be otherways with safety rasor. It is just another bladeholder. Skin stretching ? It is me who stretches skin.
Why can it not be otherwise? You think a safety razor is the same as a razor blade on a stick? I guess a bicycle is the same as an automobile, it's just transportation with wheels...
Blade flat on your face does not/ cannot cut you. Blade perpendicular to your face cuts you. These are the extremes.
Everything between are on that scale of extremes.
Safety bar is for you safety if you happen to shave too extreme angle. Safe angel is shallow angle.
Everything between are on that scale of extremes.
Safety bar is for you safety if you happen to shave too extreme angle. Safe angel is shallow angle.
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