Readily available hone lapping solutions

[gurana]

Just got a new kamisori in the mail yesterday and my chinese 12k should be in today or perhaps tomorrow. I thought initially that I could lap it with my norton flattening stone, but turns out that might not be the best solution... some have said it worked for them, the majority seem to report that it either didn't work, worked extremely slowly (hours or more), and/or ruined the flattening stone. This seems to fit the fact that the stones aren't necessarily the same hardness. I'd give it a try, but I'd prefer not to ruin my flattening stone, cheap as it is.

Eventually, I'm thinking I'll get a DMT 325, or something along those lines, but for now I'm looking for solutions that I can acquire locally. The best candidate solution I've read about so far would be granite tile with wet/dry sandpaper. I'm thinking regular granite title, not those granite blocks that are certified to something like 0.00001". That seems a little surpurfluous to me, especially considering i'm not sure the sandpaper i'd put on top could be said to meet the same standards. Glass is another alternative i've thought about... whichever is cheaper I suppose. Any other suggestions to this? Better to wait until I can get a dmt?

which kind of brings me to the related point of, which grit(s) to go with? 325 DMT seems to be suggested often for this purpose, can i assume the same would be good in sandpaper? Do I have to progress to finer grit sizes, or should lapping on the 325 equivalent be sufficient?

 

[sychodelix]

325 grit should be just fine, just make sure you have several sheets because it may take quite a bit. Thick glass plate or a hard flat time will help too. Or, what may work even better, is go find a concrete sidewalk or curb, keep it wet with a hose or sprinkler and lap away!

 

[Krodor]

I've not played with too many stones, but my CNAT is 2nd only in hardness to my surgical black Arkansas. I assume JNATs are also of that order. That being said, the diamond-encrusted DMT 325 is still slow going, but doable. You could give 325 wet /dry a chance and see where that leads you, just expect to use more than one sheet <chuckle> Just keep telling yourself "I only need to do this once in a blue moon."

You do want something flat, but those certified granite blocks are a bit much (but Seraphims got one for his films, I believe).

Remember, these are also known as Chinese water hones. Somehow they are freakishly hard yet decently porous. You'll want to soak it for 10-15 mins before use; I just keep mine in a Taco Bell to-go cup full of water.

 

[Legion]

I lapped my cnat after soaking, ~325 grit paper on glass, then finished on 1k paper. Seemed to work fine, and did not take too long.

 

[jpcwon]

IMO having a DMT 325 is invaluable if you're going to be honing with any sort of regularity. I get a LOT of use from mine. I used it to lap my C12K and it's a little slow to lap that stone, but is effective....

I would also recommend getting a dedicated Stone Holder for the DMT as it makes it a LOT easier to use:

http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D1091...8&qid=1354109339&sr=8-1&keywords=stone+holder

 

[raccoonandbrush]

For lapping any natural stone, I very highly recommend the Chosera 1K Slurry Stone sold at Chef Knives To Go. It will leave your C12K as smooth as can be, and at $4.50 you couldn't ask for a better price. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ch1kgrslst.html

 

[Neurotopia]

How is that tiny thing supposed to level the surface of the hone to a flat plane? The lapping stone needs to be bigger than the hone. You may get a smooth surface but you're not going to get rid of peaks and valleys.

 

[gurana]

Thanks guys. Getting the set up this weekend -- tonight if I think I can wrangle 3 kids by myself at the home depot... Ironically, perhaps, I might have been able to order something a few days ago and gotten it in by now. c'est la vie.

Anyways, I'm going to go with regular old granite tile or glass plate (again, whichever seems cheaper) and sandpaper. Seems to me that 325 is sufficient and will not require higher grits to smooth things over... this goes against my intuition, but then again, *** do I know?

 

[Wid]

I still use the glass and sand paper most times when doing the first lapping, works great.

 

[Kentos]

I thought someone mentioned a Cnat/CHUG will demolish a DMT plate...I would do some double checking before setting it to diamond just in case my memory serves.

 

[BigSlick]

If you go the tile/sandpaper route be sure to check the piece of tile with a straight edge. Some of the tiles are "flatter" than others. I used a framing square from the the tool department. I checked the square against another square first (just to be sure).

As far as sandpaper I used the "Sandblaster" line. Water doesn't affect it, it is made to be rinsed. Also, it lies flat against the tile without curling. All of the traditional wet/dry sandpaper I have tried curls up on the ends.

Depending on how well the c12k is lapped 320 may be fine. I usually start with 120 and then go to 320. After the 320 I will rub the c12k against my Norton 1k then 4k then 8k.

 

[BigSlick]

One more thing, any of the natural tiles will work it doesn't have to be granite. I ended up getting travertine, it was flatter than the rest.

 

[cb91710]

I thought someone mentioned a Cnat/CHUG will demolish a DMT plate...I would do some double checking before setting it to diamond just in case my memory serves.

It will pop the diamonds off of a DMT 1200... same as any other hone will.
The DTM325 is just fine.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Those ultra flat granite slabs are probably a good idea for honing with very fine lapping films, but a granite sink cutout, or a polished marble floor tile or a piece of heavy glass would be plenty flat enough for lapping a C12k or anything coarser than that, I think. FWIW I use a marble floor tile for honing with films and I don't worry much about the extra iota of flatness I could get with one of those certifiable super-plates. YMMV.

If your paper curls up when wet, get a can of LocTite spray adhesive, and give the back of the paper a light spray before applying it to your plate. Residue cleans up easily with acetone or nail polish remover, or one of several other different solvents.

 

[gurana]

As a follow up to those interested:

I got a granite floor tile... it was <$5. Had to scour the Home Depot for wetordry sandpaper... Sandpaper was usually around the paints. Didn't see it there. Someone told me to check the masonry area. Someone over there told me to check near the paints. Finally I found a couple of packs of the stuff... near the paints. Lowest grit they had was 400. They didn't have the large square pieces. The packs I ended up were just a little larger than my norton lapping stone.

Worked on it for about an hour. The ends curled up a little after a while, but I didn't mind. Figured if it messes anything up it would be to round the edges a little, which was fine by me. However, I also did take it to my norton lapping stone. At some point i figured if it messed it up, I could get a new one or use it as an excuse to get the DMT 325. Seemed to work pretty well, and I don't believe it had any negative effects on my lapping stone. At least, none that I could detect.

I did get one tip at the home depot that auto parts shops would be more likely to have the wetordry stuff. I think I might have seen that tip around here somewhere. If I ever get a minute I'll stop by one and see if I can get a few larger pieces. My norton lapping stone seems to be sufficient, but a larger surface area might help to make things go a little quicker.

p.s., my attempt at honing the recently aquired kamisori was pretty much a disaster.

 

[BigSlick]

Wal-mart has an assorted pack of 3M Wet/Dry that contains sheets of 220/320/400 for around $3.

 

[Weaselsrippedmyflesh]

p.s., my attempt at honing the recently aquired kamisori was pretty much a disaster.

How did it go bad?

 

[gurana]

How did it go bad?

It came fairly dull. After moving it from 4k>8k>c12k the bevel looked fairly uneven width-wise throughout the length. this was a used kamisori and I'm not sure that it was ever honed properly. the stamp side grind was flatter than I've seen on some, but not terrible. To my untrained eye, it looked like it still had enough to last quite a while pending I didn't ruin it. I don't think I ruined it at this point, but certainly it needs a lot more work. Because of my inexperience, especially with this type of razor, I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is simply my lack of skill or the fact that it needs some amount of restorative work first.

I'll look into it some more, but I think I'll be best served by getting a pro to hone and restore if necessary for a first edge. After that i'll try and maintain with the c12k, but would send it back when needed until I get it right.

 

[cb91710]

Is the edge straight and flat?
If not, that's the likely source of the unevenness.

If it's not warped, but merely has a slight smile or frown, post up a shot showing how bad it is and one of the pros can suggest whether to attempt to hone as-is with rolling x-strokes, or if breadknifing will likely straighten it.
If it's warped, rolling x-strokes are the only solution.

 

[gurana]

Is the edge straight and flat?
If not, that's the likely source of the unevenness.

If it's not warped, but merely has a slight smile or frown, post up a shot showing how bad it is and one of the pros can suggest whether to attempt to hone as-is with rolling x-strokes, or if breadknifing will likely straighten it.
If it's warped, rolling x-strokes are the only solution.

Thanks. I think it might be warped a little. At least this gives me a starting point to research what may be done about it. Won't be able to dedicate any more time to this until after the new year probably. One question though, if it is warped, would that prevent any of the edge getting sharp if I attempted to hone it without taking that into consideration? As I might have stated, it didn't seem that any portion of the blade got sharp.