What Natural Finisher Do You Like?
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I think Dan's is the only place I'd trust to supply a Black surgical Ark if you want to buy a new one. I'm hopelessly addicted to Vintage Norton stones of the Black and Translucent variety. I'd like to get a Dan's surgical just to compare it to my old Nortons. I'm sure I won't be able to tell any difference, I just need an excuse to buy another Ark.
A used stone may save you some coinage....depending on the stone.... But yes, count me in as a big Ark fan.
My progression is Shapton pro 1.5, 5, 8, 12k and then Arks. I'm not mentioning the Escher between 12k and Ark because it can be done with out it but I also find it all adds up to a freaky nice edge.
If you can master an Ark, you are in business. IMHO easier to master than a Coticule, although there is a learning curve and stone prep can be a drag but, the extra attention paid is well worth the reward of a velvet squeegee, skin friendly edge.
There's a lot of opinions on this matter, be prepared to sort through them
A used stone may save you some coinage....depending on the stone.... But yes, count me in as a big Ark fan.
My progression is Shapton pro 1.5, 5, 8, 12k and then Arks. I'm not mentioning the Escher between 12k and Ark because it can be done with out it but I also find it all adds up to a freaky nice edge.
If you can master an Ark, you are in business. IMHO easier to master than a Coticule, although there is a learning curve and stone prep can be a drag but, the extra attention paid is well worth the reward of a velvet squeegee, skin friendly edge.
There's a lot of opinions on this matter, be prepared to sort through them
Can I hitch along on this topic with some question?
Arent hard/trans arks eeexxxxtreeeemely slow?
I have a translucent small Ark slip and could do passes till infinity until I get what I want.
I really, really hate that thing.
I'm guessing getting a regular sized stone would help a bit. But can someone compare it in speed to a good slate?
Also are MST, Skerper and Preyda reliable sources for a translucent ark?
I do seem to love my Black Shadow as a finisher. I'm not sure if it would push above a 12k synthetic, but it is definetly more comfy and more refined than my 10k naniwa.
Arent hard/trans arks eeexxxxtreeeemely slow?
I have a translucent small Ark slip and could do passes till infinity until I get what I want.
I really, really hate that thing.
I'm guessing getting a regular sized stone would help a bit. But can someone compare it in speed to a good slate?
Also are MST, Skerper and Preyda reliable sources for a translucent ark?
I do seem to love my Black Shadow as a finisher. I'm not sure if it would push above a 12k synthetic, but it is definetly more comfy and more refined than my 10k naniwa.
Generally speaking, a hard ark will be slower than a slate. A VERY rough guide, and YMMV, on a 6x2 translucent I will generally do about 100 laps for a touchup, and on a slate of the same size about 50x. Of course there are a lot of variables there, but that is my normal figure I work around, and seems a reasonable benchmark for me.
Obviously, if your stone is smaller or larger than that, the laps can be adjusted accordingly. And not all slates cut at the same speed, etc, etc...
Preyda is ok for translucent, surgical black or soft Arks. You can easily find them here in Europe. Downside is they are narrow (2”/50mm), which I know you don’t like, so maybe it would be wise to look at Dan’s Whetstone for a 3” benchstone. But if you buy from Dan’s, you have to pay shipping (which is not that expensive imo) and VAT on top of that.
You’d also have to lap them, so you can skip gym day when you do this.
They are not fast. In my opinion you need a certain amount of pressure to get them to cut. This can be difficult, because it's difficult to get enough pressure without flexing the grind, which reduces pressure in behind the apex. More pressure also increases the likelihood of chipping, especially on hard steel.
One way to increase surface pressure is to reduce the contact area. This is why I create a back bevel using a convex stone before I use a flat Arkansas stone.
So, in my opinion pressure is the key to get these 'slow' stones to cut. I also think burnishing them is a waste of time.
One of the major benefits to buying from Dans is that the stones ship flat. You won’t need to do any of the major dish removal that is often required with vintage stones. The Atoma will be fine for a final lapping and surface prep. Many people use them right out of the box.
The corners of his stones are sharp 90 degree angles. It’s best to round these off slightly. Otherwise they can be easily chipped or catch your edge. For the initial tapering and rounding of the edges I would recommend wet/dry sandpaper.
The key to getting slow stones to cut is to spend more time honing. The real reason why we are attracted to straight razor shaving is the inconvenience and expense, after all.
I need to spend lots of time honing, or my idle hands will find evil things to do. Like spray painting trains, or golf.
I need to spend lots of time honing, or my idle hands will find evil things to do. Like spray painting trains, or golf.
IMO the more time you spend on the ark the better the edge gets (with good technique). However if you spend the same time on an ark and another natural finisher (stones being the same size and without slurry. Razor coming from the same jumping point) I think the speeds are closer than what you might think. Although the ark can just keep pushing the edge if desired where another natural might be reached its best edge. Although this is from a guy who gets zen and forgets about time when honing so I could be totally wrong. 
“The corners of his stones are sharp 90 degree angles. It’s best to round these off slightly. Otherwise they can be easily chipped or catch your edge. For the initial tapering and rounding of the edges I would recommend wet/dry sandpaper.”
Or use an old metal file to break the corners quickly and cleanly, then finish with wet & dry or a diamond plate.
“What an edge.”
This is a photo taken by a new honer, it was the second razor he had honed. See (Second try at Honing) for the complete post. The poster took great micrographs of each step in his process, learned at the speed of instruction.
Or use an old metal file to break the corners quickly and cleanly, then finish with wet & dry or a diamond plate.
“What an edge.”
This is a photo taken by a new honer, it was the second razor he had honed. See (Second try at Honing) for the complete post. The poster took great micrographs of each step in his process, learned at the speed of instruction.
If I could do it all over again, I would buy good coticule first. New or old. I'm a Jnat guy by all accounts. "If you're patient and willing to learn", a coticule can cover a lot of bases. There are plenty of videos online to give you tips. Just my 2 cents.
Anyone familiar with Vermont Green Slate Whetstones?
Griffith has them for a very nice price in 8x3-3/4 and they are up in 10-12k grit area. I saw a fellow on YouTube who was a big proponent of them, but not many other mentions of this finisher.
www.griffithshavinggoods.com
Griffith has them for a very nice price in 8x3-3/4 and they are up in 10-12k grit area. I saw a fellow on YouTube who was a big proponent of them, but not many other mentions of this finisher.
Vermont Green Slate Whetstone 8x3in. x 3/4in. thick - Very Fine Water Razor Knife Hone Sharpening Stone - Finisher
These are newly quarried and finished green slate hones manufactured by a quarry in the traditional quarrying area in western Vermont near the New York border. Vermont slates were once used commonly as honing stones and these examples have been tested thoroughly and are very fine stones (think...
I would say, on an ark, round the edge chamfers off quite a bit. And hit them with w/d to make sure they're smooth, maybe take a few laps sacrificial razor to make sure there aren't any rough spots. You'll feel them if they're there. Arks are unforgiving and the corners can be problematic even if they seem smooth enough.
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Cool - good stuff. I will make sure to work the corners down as stated. I like the old metal file idea for knocking off the immediate edge and then moving to wet / dry sandpaper. Would SIC powered also work for finishing edges off (i.e., slab of glass and polishing them out a bit)? Next steps I'm currently researching are which grit to finish the stone on. Opinions seem to vary but general consensus is that anywhere in the ball park between 400 to 1,000 will work with experimentation and personal preference in mind.
The Japanese Naturals sound like a whole separate (fun) rabbit hole to dive down in the future as well as Coticules. Is it bad that I want to try them all? Ha. It is cool to see Dan's Surgical Black Ark's get lots of love and support here.
The Japanese Naturals sound like a whole separate (fun) rabbit hole to dive down in the future as well as Coticules. Is it bad that I want to try them all? Ha. It is cool to see Dan's Surgical Black Ark's get lots of love and support here.
I have ILR slate and really like it for a change in pace. Griffin is very reputable retailer from my own personal experience.Anyone familiar with Vermont Green Slate Whetstones?
Griffith has them for a very nice price in 8x3-3/4 and they are up in 10-12k grit area. I saw a fellow on YouTube who was a big proponent of them, but not many other mentions of this finisher.
Vermont Green Slate Whetstone 8x3in. x 3/4in. thick - Very Fine Water Razor Knife Hone Sharpening Stone - Finisher
These are newly quarried and finished green slate hones manufactured by a quarry in the traditional quarrying area in western Vermont near the New York border. Vermont slates were once used commonly as honing stones and these examples have been tested thoroughly and are very fine stones (think...
Sorry, which slate is ILR?
Good to know about Griffin. They have a nice selection of stones and an informative site.
ILR = Imperia La Roccia. I have one and it works well, affordable too. I use it with water/glycerine as a finisher.
It's just another slate. You really can't go wrong with Griffin with what currently looking. Stick with what you are focused on. I only mention it because that is what I have as is in line with slates.
Thanks guys @Koop &. @sexy beast
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