YAY Microscopic edge pictures

[JPO]

The shadow stone seller suggests to use the Black Shadow with a light slurry then dillute to water, then glycerine finish or continue on green shadow with very light slurry, then glycerine all AFTER a 6K stone.

That is good advise. To eliminate variables i would skip the Green Shadow. I have used my BS stone this way, and it works grate. However, you need to be careful with the amount of slurry you have on the stone. You also need a fresh surface on the stone. The slurry will also polish the surface as you hone.

I actually bought them because I was hoping to own a stone to just use as a finisher, after the 10K naniwa.

I think you already have several good stones. I think the black shadow is a good stone.
If i wanted something harder then this i would get an Arkansas stone instead. This works really well after a 10k, or even after your black shadow.

Have the habbit of moving things I dislike on (too) quickly, which is why I've had quite a few stones pass through my hands.
Honestly before I even understood how they work. Not sure if I want to make that mistake again....it's starting to become quite costly.

Throwing money at the problem is like chasing your own tail. When you understand the fundamentals you can get a really good edge with what you have. The difference in the final results after different types of finishers is really not that big.
A high end jnat might not automatically give you a much better edge.

If I had one of my "dream" stones, I would ditch these in a heartbeat.

Your dream stone is in my opinion more about the experiance of using the stone, and not just about the final results.
I am not chasing gold at the end of a rainbow. I have more stones then i need to get a good edge. For me it's more about the experience i get using different stones. The results is more a bonus.
If you just want a good edge you just need to learn to use what you have. There is no dream stone if you are just after a good edge.

 

[silverlifter]

Your dream stone is in my opinion more about the experiance of using the stone, and not just about the final results.

This. The Black Shadow will give you lovely edges, you just need to spend the time with it. The most important investment you can make at this point is not in a new stone, but in patience with what you have. Slow down, enjoy the complete focus of every honing session, and the stone will teach you what you need to know.

 

[Christian1212]

Chasing your dream edge is fun, but need to make sure you are confident in your skills first with good base lines. I love synthetics because they are all mostly the same (in their line up) and you know they work. Would recommend you watch tomo naguras/Keith's video on setting the bevel. Once you are getting consistent results on your 10k finisher, then I would start messing with naturals - if not every fail can be, was it the stone or was it me scenario.

Once you have that down pact I would then focus on finding what edge you like most. I think trying out other edges from members is a cheap way to do that. Buying different stones can work if you are okay with the cost or trying to re sale them. Also important to know how much those naturals can vary - arkansas stones are very consistent, however jnats can be very different from each other.

I have not read the whole thread but sounds like you might be trying to run before you can walk. I know some people love slate edges, but I can't stand them. Would try a few slate edges from other members to see if you are even a slate type of guy. Dream edge might be from an ark, and you are trying to get it from a slate for example.

 

[JPO]

I know some people love slate edges, but I can't stand them

Have you tried any slate edges from someone else?
You might be missing one piece of the puzzle!

 

[Christian1212]

Have you tried any slate edges from someone else?
You might be missing one piece of the puzzle!

I have tried 3/4 escher edges from various members (as well as owning a couple eschers, and an SRD). They always seem to fall short for me and struggle to cut. Have also tried the PA slate, and some random UK skate and didn't like them either. Love coticules though so not sure why the slates always failed me. Edges were always set on a solid razor.

Would try the French slates but already happy and with many jnats, coticules, and arks. The best result I did get was a concave bevel and dark blue escher, however the post shave wasn't whenever testing it out (shave was acceptable but not meh). I do think I am an odd duck here though so I still recommend other people try the edge.

 

[JPO]

I have tried 3/4 escher edges from various members (as well as owning a couple eschers, and an SRD). They always seem to fall short for me and struggle to cut. Have also tried the PA slate, and some random UK skate and didn't like them either. Love coticules though so not sure why the slates always failed me. Edges were always set on a solid razor.

Would try the French slates but already happy and with many jnats, coticules, and arks. The best result I did get was a concave bevel and dark blue escher, however the post shave wasn't whenever testing it out (shave was acceptable but not meh). I do think I am an odd duck here though so I still recommend other people try the edge.

I think the hardness of these slates can have a big impact on the finishing capabilities of the stones.
I have a labelled Thuringian that was too soft to be used like i use some of my harder slates. No matter what i did it just seemed to dull the edge.
For this particular stone the solution was to use it with oil after a 30k synthetic with light pressure just to smooth out the edge.

I think these stones can be a good and affordable way to get into natural stones. However, i get allot more joy out of using coticules and jnat's. I am not looking for more slates.

For me they work the best if i use them to calm down a overly 'hot' synthetic edge.

 

[alex1921]

I think the hardness of these slates can have a big impact on the finishing capabilities of the stones.
I have a labelled Thuringian that was to soft to be used like i use some of my harder slates. No matter what i did it just seemed to dull the edge.
For this particular stone the solution was to use it with oil after a 30k synthetic with light pressure just to smooth out the edge.

I think these stones can be a good and affordable way to get into natural stones. However, i get allot more joy out of using coticules and jnat's. I am not looking for more slates.

For me they work the best if i use them to calm down a overly 'hot' synthetic edge.

That's exactly how I was taught to use an Escher. Hone till perfectly shave ready and then use it to mellow the edge.

 

[JPO]

That's exactly how I was taught to use an Escher. Hone till perfectly shave ready and then use it to mellow the edge.

I think allot of people 'back in tha day' used a pasted strop to add a little extra sharpness to these slate edges.
I don't own any time machines, so it just speculation
A slate and some red and black paste is probably not a bad way to hone and maintain a razor.

 

[Christian1212]

Will note when I did use them I went to it from a 10k synthetic edge or a finished coticule edge. Usually used a light amount of slurry, but tried a couple times with water only or heavier slurry (from a thuri slurry stone and not DMT). Can see how it would calm down a pasted edge though.

 

[JPO]

Can see how it would calm down a pasted edge though.

It would be interesting to use an aggressive linen strop loaded with diamond, and the see if a Thuringian could calm down the edge enough to get a good shave..

 

[alex1921]

Most of the time I go to Escher from a jnat. Can't say I use them that much, I like buying them though. Something about the labels and stamps.
Like the ApexUltra razor. Jnat edge kept coming a tad harsh even though it was nice and straight under the scope. Tamed with Escher. Sharpness remained but the edge became super smooth. Could I have done it with a different Jnat/tomo combo? Yes but from time to time I like to use those Eschers

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I like an Escher for when I don't have the time or the focus to get the most out of my arks. It's pretty quick and painless after a 12k. Been doing water only and lately I've been very happy with the edges. It makes a different sort of edge for me than the other slates I have. The other thing is doing light dilutions on a coticule and a few strokes on the Escher, that's a really special edge, not my everyday favorite but nice for a change.

 

[Shaun asleep]

@JPO since we're talking slates to calm down an aggressive synthetic edge...

I seem to recall you are a fan of the Shapton Rockstar series. Have you, or anyone else, by any chance had experience with the 16k rockstar?

I noticed they go pretty cheap. If I am looking for a cheap and quick finisher that 16k might be all I need? If it's too harsh, then I could do some light strokes on my slate pile?

 

[JPO]

@JPO since we're talking slates to calm down an aggressive synthetic edge...

I seem to recall you are a fan of the Shapton Rockstar series. Have you, or anyone else, by any chance had experience with the 16k rockstar?

I noticed they go pretty cheap. If I am looking for a cheap and quick finisher that 16k might be all I need? If it's too harsh, then I could do some light strokes on my slate pile?

I only have the 10k in the rock star series. It's rated as a sub-micron stone. It's allot better, and finer then the 12k Naniwa.
This produces a really nice edge.
So, i am not sure how the so-caled 16k performs. If you can get it at a good price, i would give it a try.

I also have the 0.85 G7, which seems to give slightly sharper edge then the 10k. That might just be because it's harder then the 10k.
At this refinement level the hardness of the stone can make a big difference.
If i was planning to use your setup i would get the 0.85 G7 stone, and smooth out the edge with your black shadow.
You probably only need 5-10 light strokes after your 10k Naniwa. They are really fast, even at this grit level.

It's nice to have a full sized stone. However, i usually only do a few short strokes on these finishing stones.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

had experience with the 16k rockstar?

I noticed they go pretty cheap. If I am looking for a cheap and quick finisher that 16k might be all I need? If it's too harsh, then I could do some light strokes on my slate pile?

I do have it, but I have not used it yet.

However,

I have used the RockStar 1k, 4k and 8k. So far, I like them. I like them more than the glass stones because of the extra thickness and better value proposition. I am a fan of the glass stones but they only last me a few weeks or months when I use them daily, so the release of the RockStar line was welcome. Others might use them sparingly so the thickness of the glass stones probably won't be an issue.

Now, few things on the 16k: with the glass stone, there was/is a long discussion rooted from some users which had/have issues with them. I now see this trend with the 16k RockStar as well which is weirdly being linked to the 16k glass stone. Truth is, some users struggle using all different kinds of stones. This does not necessarily means these stones are faulty. I use my 16k glass stone quite a lot. Just finished one, started another one recently. It's been all good so far. They perform well, just as my 30k or G7's I have tried in the past.

In my experience, high grit Shapton stones are OK/acceptable/good (Glass stone, G7, RockStar) as long as you don't do too many laps, otherwise the edge becomes uncomfortable. If the previous work was done correctly, start doing just a few laps on the 16k and test how the edge evolved. Then decide if it needs more laps or not. Do small steps, don't over do it and it will be all right. It's not rocket science, as we say here in a corner of Veldhoven.

 

[Shaun asleep]

Now, few things on the 16k: with the glass stone, there was/is a long discussion rooted from some users which had/have issues

You told me of these 16k glass problems before, which is why I looked at the specs closely and didn't consider the glass version.

I noticed the 16k Rockstar uses Calcide Alumina vs white Alumina on all the lower grit Rockstars and the Glass HR stones. .

I have no idea what it translate to, but some people seem to suggest they are the same stone, only thicker. I would say that is definetly not correct for the 16k, given the different abrasive.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

white Alumina on all the lower grit Rockstars and the Glass HR stones. .

Not all other HR glass stones are WA.

Besides abrasive type, there are other factors which impact the performance of a stone. And to be realistic, unless we have a lab properly equipped for testing these stones and spending hundreds or thousands of hours into testing and analyzing the results of different steels and other variables, I am afraid we won't be able to tell with certainty what difference the abrasive type will bring. Maybe it's best to leave this to the Shapton engineers and their suppliers and partners.

What we can say is how the edges created on those stones shave.

I have no idea what it translate to, but some people seem to suggest they are the same stone, only thicker. I would say that is definetly not correct for the 16k, given the different abrasive.

As far as I remember, the RockStar 16k is also CA, but the median particle size is different.

By the way, I could lend you my RockStar 16k if you want to try it before purchasing one.

Cheers!

 

[albsat]

@Shaun asleep

As I am learning from your thread, I am curios. Doesn't the King 1000/6000 grit plus the Naniwa 10,000 give you a nice edge to shave?

 

[Shaun asleep]

Naniwa 10,000 give you a nice edge to shave?

I've done so many different things lately. I'm not sure I have tried the Naniwa 10k,but the Bismarck is ready with a 10k naniwa finish for tomorrow morning.

 

[Shaun asleep]

@albsat

The Bismarck with the 10k shaved perfectly.
It felt more smooth and keen than the Nero Ardesia finish.

I know you're looking into an affordable setup, so you're basically looking for the same thing I was after.
This works perfectly.
You could add some paste if you would want to give it an extra bump.

I have added the King 4K to my line-up so I need less work on the 6K.
Not necessary, but it does safe me some time and should make my 6k last a bit longer.

Honestly I am very tempted to just pull the trigger on the 16K Rockstar, out of curiousity and probably because I have some kind of acquisition disease.
I notice you are far more responsible when it comes to your purchases. I envy you, because I'm an impulsive idiot. You're definetly doing the right thing by taking it slow and doing your research. It will end up saving you alot of money.

My purchase list (just to prove what kind of a moron I am):

YJSharp 1K-6K --> still use the 1K for rough work
Adaee 12K cnat --> use it to keep my microscope from tipping over. I really can't see any other use for it
Amazon whetstones 240/800 and 3000/8000 which were total rubbish and completely useless. They ended up with some mold after storing them without having completely dried, so I threw them out.
La Lune slate (sold)
Shapton glass 1K HR --> which was a good and fast bevel setter. (sold)
Black Shadow (sold)
New la grise coticule (sold, was 40 mm and I didn't like the narrow stone)
Antique Coticule (sold, but it was a good stone - basically just tried to make my wallet bleed less)
Vintage Pike translucent Ark slib (for sale)
Vintage Diamond King Barberhone (for sale)
Rouge du salm (fantastic stone, but I sold it when I went back to DE razors)
Belgian blue whetstone (sold)
King 1K - 6K (kept and in use)
King 4K (recent purchase and in use)
Naniwa 10 k superstone (even though knives&tools sold it as an advance) (kept and in use)
Black Shadow (yes, another one)
Green Shadow
Nero Ardesia
Labeled Escher (sold, even narrower than 40 mm)