Hi there, I'm very new to this and I cannot for the life of me get this razor sharpened. Watched a lot of cowboy movies and I thought it would be nice to start shaving with a straight razor. So I bought a straight razor, a leather strop and 2 double sided stones (400/1000 & 3000/8000). At first, the razor could cut my arm hairs but it was rough and I could feel the edge scraping my skin a bit. So I thought I would sharpen it to perfection before actually trying to shave my face. Watched countless videos and read many articles about razor sharpening and stropping, so I sunk my 3000/8000 stone in water, got my razor out and got to work. After 1.5 hours of trying different angles, it was all wasted as the edge was dulled to the point I nicked myself trying to cut my arm hair. Confident I could get it to work, I read and watched some more and I tried laying the spine completely on the stone. After some 50 something passes, I somehow managed to dull the razor beyond the point where I could cut my arm hair, it's a glorified kitchen knife now. Am I an idiot? Are the stones not good enough/too low grit? Am I a *******? Can someone give me some tips so I won't ruin this razor beyond repair?
Cannot sharpen dull razor
- Thread starter Craigo
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Let’s start at the beginning. Tell us more about this razor you bought…
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- #3
If you lifted the spine off the stone, you have put a serious blunt bevel on it which will have to be removed before it will shave. Razors have a defined spine to guide you to the correct angle for honing, somewhere in the range of 16 to 18 degrees. Razors do NOT hone like knives.
You can probably fix it, but it's won't look new any more....
You will need a way to keep your stones dead flat. Wet and dry sandpaper stuck to a marble tile from the Big Box store is probably the cheapest, use self adhesive paper and clean the stone well between sheets (not adhesive left behind to make lumps under the paper). Rub the stone with liberal amounts of water on the sandpaper (320 grit or so) until it's flat.
Get a loupe, 20x at least, and a Sharpie. Use the Sharpie to blacken the edge and bevel, then lay the razor flat with the spine riding on the 1000 grit stone and make a couple passes, just a few. Look at the bevel with your loupe in good light -- you will see a stripe of black that has not been removed. Make alternating passes on the 400 grit stone until the black is almost gone (re-blacken as necessary) and then again on the 1000 grit until the bevel extends all the way to the edge in a very smooth straight line. At this point you need to determine if you have the bevel set -- should easily cut hair at skin level. From here you will need to refine the edge, but you'll need a finer stone that 4000 grit.
This will likely result in some wear to the spine, but that's the price you pay for making a blunt bevel than has to be ground off.
I did the same penance for getting cocky and thinking I could speed up fixing a badly honed yanagiba -- took an eternity to grind off enough steel to get back to the edge where I slipped and the belt grinder grabbed it....
You may not actually have a decent razor, post a pic of it. Lots of "razor shaped objects" out there that are not made of hard enough steel to take a shaving edge
You can probably fix it, but it's won't look new any more....
You will need a way to keep your stones dead flat. Wet and dry sandpaper stuck to a marble tile from the Big Box store is probably the cheapest, use self adhesive paper and clean the stone well between sheets (not adhesive left behind to make lumps under the paper). Rub the stone with liberal amounts of water on the sandpaper (320 grit or so) until it's flat.
Get a loupe, 20x at least, and a Sharpie. Use the Sharpie to blacken the edge and bevel, then lay the razor flat with the spine riding on the 1000 grit stone and make a couple passes, just a few. Look at the bevel with your loupe in good light -- you will see a stripe of black that has not been removed. Make alternating passes on the 400 grit stone until the black is almost gone (re-blacken as necessary) and then again on the 1000 grit until the bevel extends all the way to the edge in a very smooth straight line. At this point you need to determine if you have the bevel set -- should easily cut hair at skin level. From here you will need to refine the edge, but you'll need a finer stone that 4000 grit.
This will likely result in some wear to the spine, but that's the price you pay for making a blunt bevel than has to be ground off.
I did the same penance for getting cocky and thinking I could speed up fixing a badly honed yanagiba -- took an eternity to grind off enough steel to get back to the edge where I slipped and the belt grinder grabbed it....
You may not actually have a decent razor, post a pic of it. Lots of "razor shaped objects" out there that are not made of hard enough steel to take a shaving edge
As said above, it is possible that the razor is to blame.
But the other likely possibility comes from when you said "After 1.5 hours of trying different angles". There is only one angle, and it is set by the razor.
So step one, post a pic of the razor. If it is a "RSO" there is probably not much point continuing with it. But if the razor is good, you will need to lay it flat and set the bevel from scratch.
But the other likely possibility comes from when you said "After 1.5 hours of trying different angles". There is only one angle, and it is set by the razor.
So step one, post a pic of the razor. If it is a "RSO" there is probably not much point continuing with it. But if the razor is good, you will need to lay it flat and set the bevel from scratch.
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- #6
For the first honing session the spine wasn't touching the stone, it was only after feeling it get more and more blunt that I started holding the spine on the stone. As much as it pains me to have a scratched/damaged razor, I want to at least be able to shave without problems before worrying about looks.
The stones I bought came with a stretchy rubber frame that is placed under the stone to fit perfectly, then placed on a wooden frame. The wooden frame has some sort of adhesive making it incredibly rigid, it kinda peels off the table when I have to remove it. This being said, I think the stones are staying flat. I also got some rock with the stones, used to flatten the stones after a honing session. It's white, feels like chalk and is very fine.
I'll look into getting a loupe tomorrow, it's a bit late here. I also keep reading about chromium oxide.. does it help in any way?
The stones I bought came with a stretchy rubber frame that is placed under the stone to fit perfectly, then placed on a wooden frame. The wooden frame has some sort of adhesive making it incredibly rigid, it kinda peels off the table when I have to remove it. This being said, I think the stones are staying flat. I also got some rock with the stones, used to flatten the stones after a honing session. It's white, feels like chalk and is very fine.
I'll look into getting a loupe tomorrow, it's a bit late here. I also keep reading about chromium oxide.. does it help in any way?
Attachments
The blade looks similar to a Gold Dollar blade. If it is, at least the steel and hardness should be OK to get sharp. The bad news is the QC is pretty random, and they can be a pest to put right. Not my idea of a good first razor to learn with.
At this point I think your best chance is to take your razor, sharpie, loupe and 400grit stone and wail on the blade until it passes the sharpie test along the whole blade. There will be spine wear involved, and that is ok. You will need to bash it until it all sits flat on the hone. Then go to the 1k stone, and use that until it cuts arm hair along the whole edge.
Problem #2 is, how are the hones? There is a lot more to a hone than just the grit number on the side. And you will need more to keep them flat than some weird white rock. That sounds more like some kind of nagura than a tool for flattening.
At this point I think your best chance is to take your razor, sharpie, loupe and 400grit stone and wail on the blade until it passes the sharpie test along the whole blade. There will be spine wear involved, and that is ok. You will need to bash it until it all sits flat on the hone. Then go to the 1k stone, and use that until it cuts arm hair along the whole edge.
Problem #2 is, how are the hones? There is a lot more to a hone than just the grit number on the side. And you will need more to keep them flat than some weird white rock. That sounds more like some kind of nagura than a tool for flattening.
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Your set of two double-sided stones sounds very much like a set I see on Amazon for $26.99 with base. Your razor looks, as Legion said, like a Gold Dollar, a razor that sells for a few bucks when ordered direct from China, and which can shave well when properly honed -- but buyers of these razors usually get several and throw out the ones with hopeless geometry.
You may be able to succeed with this set of gear, but it could be a long, uphill battle, or a hopeless one if you are sufficiently unlucky with the razor geometry. Keep an eye on the stone flatness; these stones are said to go out of flat fairly readily. Other lore says that their grit may not come near matching what is printed on the side. If the 8000 is in fact nowhere near 8000, you may not be able to reach a fineness that would make for a close shave. But I once shaved off of a 1000, and it was perfectly comfortable, though not close at all. That was only after I really learned to properly set a bevel though.
You may be able to succeed with this set of gear, but it could be a long, uphill battle, or a hopeless one if you are sufficiently unlucky with the razor geometry. Keep an eye on the stone flatness; these stones are said to go out of flat fairly readily. Other lore says that their grit may not come near matching what is printed on the side. If the 8000 is in fact nowhere near 8000, you may not be able to reach a fineness that would make for a close shave. But I once shaved off of a 1000, and it was perfectly comfortable, though not close at all. That was only after I really learned to properly set a bevel though.
That sounds like the Sharp Pebble or Intellitopia sharpening stone set. Formally Bear Moo. The white square is a rubbing stone and it won't keep those stones flat. The 8000 stone is not 8k. None of them are whay they say they are. Some people on the internet might tell you they're ok to start off with. I am not one of them. For fun I got the Bear Moo stones, and promptly sent them back.
Fixxia is an online gift catalog site, no way to discern steel quality.
Maybe send it to someone that knows how to hone so you can find out if it can take an edge.
The fact that it got duller when honing it correctly, on the spine, but the edge would cut hair when you were honing it like a knife might be telling. Hard to say conclusively because there's no solid info on the table.
Fixxia is an online gift catalog site, no way to discern steel quality.
Maybe send it to someone that knows how to hone so you can find out if it can take an edge.
The fact that it got duller when honing it correctly, on the spine, but the edge would cut hair when you were honing it like a knife might be telling. Hard to say conclusively because there's no solid info on the table.
If I were in your shoes I would probably order a shave ready straight razor. Get something from Griffith shave goods because they will hone it and send it shave ready. You also need a good strop, I really like Tony Miller but Griffith is probably fine too. Would probably be cheaper to buy a shave ready gold dollar from someone then to get your razor fixed, but can be good for you to use and abuse as you figure some things out.
Chances are you will need new stones. However if you start with a good razor and strop, you can see if this hobby is for you or not. If you enjoy the shaves you can jump into the honing stuff. Honing can be easy once you have good quality equipment and understand how the razor works.
If straight razor shaving isn't for you, chances are you can sell the razor from Griffith for 60-80% of what you paid. I also recommend you try shaving with a DE if straights don't work for you. Won't shave like a cowboy but you will shave like your grandpa.
Chances are you will need new stones. However if you start with a good razor and strop, you can see if this hobby is for you or not. If you enjoy the shaves you can jump into the honing stuff. Honing can be easy once you have good quality equipment and understand how the razor works.
If straight razor shaving isn't for you, chances are you can sell the razor from Griffith for 60-80% of what you paid. I also recommend you try shaving with a DE if straights don't work for you. Won't shave like a cowboy but you will shave like your grandpa.
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- #11
I appreciate all the replies. I'll first ask around if I can get it honed by a specialist to see if it can get an edge or not. I'm not sure where exactly this website is based but I'm not from the US. I ordered both the razor and the stones from the same site (emag), although different sellers. I found the stones on dutch amazon:
Nobody I know has any experience in straight razors so I went in completely blind buying this stuff. I think I can send them back if I cannot in any way use them. Another thing to mention is I'm on a tight budget so I can't really spend hundreds of dollars on shaving equipment. The razor and the stones cost ~80$ in total, but I'm willing to spend a bit more if it means I can get this to work.
Nobody I know has any experience in straight razors so I went in completely blind buying this stuff. I think I can send them back if I cannot in any way use them. Another thing to mention is I'm on a tight budget so I can't really spend hundreds of dollars on shaving equipment. The razor and the stones cost ~80$ in total, but I'm willing to spend a bit more if it means I can get this to work.
My experience in SR honing is admittedly limited, but if your razor was cutting your arm hair, even abit roughly, it probably just needed a few passes on a much higher grit finishing stone and a good stropping.
I think you need to look for a stone that's 12000 grit to get that keen edge. But even then it won't be shave ready until you give it a proper strop. The stropping is where that blade will really get that shave ready edge.
I know your bevel is shot now, and I don't have enough experience to help you there. Other, much more experienced guys can help you with that, but once you get it back maintaining the edge isn't really hard. A good finishing stone of high grit, or a hard Arkansas stone that can be found cheaply, followed by a good stropping should be all you need.
I'm a rookie, so take that into account, but this has worked for me so far!
I think you need to look for a stone that's 12000 grit to get that keen edge. But even then it won't be shave ready until you give it a proper strop. The stropping is where that blade will really get that shave ready edge.
I know your bevel is shot now, and I don't have enough experience to help you there. Other, much more experienced guys can help you with that, but once you get it back maintaining the edge isn't really hard. A good finishing stone of high grit, or a hard Arkansas stone that can be found cheaply, followed by a good stropping should be all you need.
I'm a rookie, so take that into account, but this has worked for me so far!
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- #13
There are places you can mail it to to bring it back to life if need be. Let them get it shave ready for you and then you should get plenty of good shaves from it with just proper stropping. And when it finally loses its edge, a few strokes on a finishing stone and you should be set.
Here's one place
Are you Belgian or Dutch?
I have bought 2 of these stones from the same site, I'm sorry to say they aren't very good. Perhaps ok for a bevel set, but you can forget about anything more than that.
Also, you hone a straight razor with the spine on the stone, it's not a kitchen knife!
Your razor looks very similar to a Kure Nai or Titan to me. I had one. The spine was warped, and I couldn't get it to shave.
I am not the most experienced straight razor shaver (+- 2 years now), but I can make a dull Gold dollar shave. I wouldnt mind having a go at your razor to try and get it shave ready, but I'm leaving on holiday pretty soon and won't be back until end of August.
If you can wait, then I'll be willing to try and put a shaveable edge on it if you won't mind paying postage both ways. If I fail, I'll send you back your razor plus a shave ready Gold Monkey.
Once you have a shave ready razor all you need is a good strop and paste or a decent finishing stone.
If you want to try and hone yourself from bevel set and want an affordable alternative to your stones you could invest in a King 1k-6k combo stone, also available through Amazon. Tested, approved, reliable and affordable.
Add a Naniwa 10k superstone from knivesandtools, some diamond paste and 1 or 2 pasted leather strips and you are good to go.
Messenwinkel.eu (located in Antwerp) also does razor honing, but I doubt they will take on a Chinese made razor.
Ertan Suer from Rasoir Sabre (France) offers a honing service as well, but again I doubt he'd accept honing a Chinese razor.
I could include a shave ready Gold monkey. You can try shaving with the gold monkey to see if you like it and have a go with your own razor on the coticule. It would be an even cheaper option. But in my opinion, a coticule is not the most newbie friendly option. It is however cheaper and a natural stone, so you'd be pretty cool.
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- #16
I don't think it's worth it.. From what I can tell this sharpening service is based in Idaho, which is over 9000 km away from me. I'll probably pay more for shipping than for a shave ready razor.
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- #17
Sorry, I'm neither. I'm Romanian and although I appreciate your offer to sharpen it for me, I would really like to learn how to do it myself. It would be pointless to send the razor to specialist every single time I need it sharpened. Can you tell me more about the stones though? Can I actually get this razor sharp enough to shave with the stones I currently have?
I'm also kind of limited when deciding where to buy razors and sharpening equipment from. Ordering from outside the country is fine with me if it's close enough but it can get expensive.. sometimes shipping costs more than the product I'm buying.
Salutare,
As I am from Romania as well and knowing what is available in the country, below is what I would recommend to a beginner in SR shaving. All products are available within EU and have, in my opinion, a good price-quality ratio.
Razor
- Revisor website; there are quality Solingen razors starting from €72 (a basic 5/8 model), however it will not come share-ready by default. You can try contacting them via e-mail and ask if a honing service can be provided for extra cost (maybe around €20).
or
- Ralf Aust website; a 5/8 razor with plastic scales is €124 and it will come with a good edge.
Strop
- both Revisor and Ralf Aust sell Herold strops for €50.
Stones
- I think once you have a razor with a good bevel, a Naniwa 8k and 12k would be enough for maintenance, provided you don't hit the edge against the sink faucet like I once did. Search for the stones inside EU, there are multiple vendors offering them, price for both should be around €170.
or
- Ardennes Coticule website; a standard rectangular stone of 150x40mm is €78. A very good option, however being a natural stone it might be more difficult to master compared to the artificial Naniwas.
As I am from Romania as well and knowing what is available in the country, below is what I would recommend to a beginner in SR shaving. All products are available within EU and have, in my opinion, a good price-quality ratio.
Razor
- Revisor website; there are quality Solingen razors starting from €72 (a basic 5/8 model), however it will not come share-ready by default. You can try contacting them via e-mail and ask if a honing service can be provided for extra cost (maybe around €20).
or
- Ralf Aust website; a 5/8 razor with plastic scales is €124 and it will come with a good edge.
Strop
- both Revisor and Ralf Aust sell Herold strops for €50.
Stones
- I think once you have a razor with a good bevel, a Naniwa 8k and 12k would be enough for maintenance, provided you don't hit the edge against the sink faucet like I once did. Search for the stones inside EU, there are multiple vendors offering them, price for both should be around €170.
or
- Ardennes Coticule website; a standard rectangular stone of 150x40mm is €78. A very good option, however being a natural stone it might be more difficult to master compared to the artificial Naniwas.
- Thread starter
- #19
Salut,
Sad to see there isn't a local shaving shop somewhere in the country. Thank you kindly for the recommendations but I really don't have enough in my savings to afford all of this. I'm still interested in seeing if I can get my current razor sharp again before committing to any further expensive purchases.
Sad to see there isn't a local shaving shop somewhere in the country. Thank you kindly for the recommendations but I really don't have enough in my savings to afford all of this. I'm still interested in seeing if I can get my current razor sharp again before committing to any further expensive purchases.
The unfortunate side of straight razor shaving is without the right tools, the experience will suck. If the cheaper stones could work it would be recommended. For your budget the best thing right now is getting a good razor and strop, with the plans to get decent stones. Would be really tough to beat what Serbian suggested and still get a decent shave.
There are some alternatives though.
Paste can keep your shave ready edge going for longer (but you will want an extra linen strop - maybe 30$ for everything).
There is also film that some people use. Very cheap to start with but you will want to research it more. Wouldn't recommend bringing a razor from scratch to shave ready with it, but can keep a shave ready razor going.
Lastly check out shaving with a DE! It can be just as cool and takes a lot less money for a good set up. Best of luck!
There are some alternatives though.
Paste can keep your shave ready edge going for longer (but you will want an extra linen strop - maybe 30$ for everything).
There is also film that some people use. Very cheap to start with but you will want to research it more. Wouldn't recommend bringing a razor from scratch to shave ready with it, but can keep a shave ready razor going.
Lastly check out shaving with a DE! It can be just as cool and takes a lot less money for a good set up. Best of luck!
