Cannot sharpen dull razor

[Shaun asleep]

Serbans post was dead on really. I'd like to add Rasoir Sabre from France.
Ertan also has an EBay page (his name is cocoricoco1900) where he sells new and NOS shave ready straight razors for as little as 39 euro's. His shipping rates are fair. I think he charges 18 euro's a shipment.

I strongly suggest you buy a shave ready razor and go from there. I have zero confidence in the stones you have purchased. They will be ok-ish for the grunt work, bevel setting. But I wouldnt expect more from them.

Add .5 and maybe .25 micron paste to your order from for instance rasoir sabre and make a home made denim strop (you can cut up old jeans) and glue them to a flat piece of wood or use balsa wood instead and you are all set. You'll be able to start with a good razor and edge, have some time to work on your shaving and stropping technique before having to hit the pasted strop or balsa. When you have that figured out you can tune up the edge with your pasted strops and learn that.

Then... If you are still into it, you can have a look at decent honing stones to get your current razor to shave ready.

I understand your wish to make your current razor sharp yourself, I have been in your shoes - exactly there. But it's not easy getting a dull razor to a shave ready state when you haven't actually experienced a shave from a shave ready straight razor before.

 

[JPO]

If you Google "Science of sharp simple straight razor honing" you can find information about a simple method to get a good edge using simple equipment.
I have tested this method several times. You should be able to use what you have if you follow the instructions and add a pasted strop(s) to what you already have.
I have even honed a razor using a single sheet of 800 grit sandpaper and some pasted strops. Using what you have should make it even easier.
For some reason these types of honing routines gets allot of push backs by experts who have not even given it a shot.
In my opinion you can get a good edge if you follow some simple guidelines. However, most of the work goes into establishing a bevel geometry. That is the challenging part. So, working with poor quality steel and bad geometry, using cheap stones is not optimum, and makes the learning curve allot more difficult then it needs to be.
However, you have already baught the equipment, so you might just give it a try. As have been pointed out, there are allot easier ways to get you started.

 

[JPO]

This is a gold dollar I just honed using the simplest method I can think of that produces a good edge. In my experience, if you plan on finishing with a pasted hanging strop you will end up with something like this regardless of what expensive stones you have used.
This was the honing setup:
800 grit sandpaper, TI white paste on jute, red paste on leather.

800 grit edge, only using edge trailing strokes. This will generate a burr. However, it will not be your typical knife burr that you can feel. Use a loupe.

50 strokes on hard backed TI pasted jute to remove the burr and create some convexity. We are shaving with the edge, so the deeper striations at the bevel does not matter.

100 strokes on the loom strop loaded with red paste, and some stropping on a hanging leather strop.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yup, for hundreds of years guys shaved with a straight razor and maintained them with one or two stones and a strop, and possibly a lick or two on a pasted paddle, Chrome or Ferrous Oxide.

Since the internet, we have made honing razors way more complicated and confusing. Paste has been the go-to finish for razors for years, a stick of pure Chrome Oxide is $10 and will last multiple lifetimes.

A couple hundred laps will improve most edges especially from a mid-grit 5-8k.

 

[Craigo]

Yeah I really need to look into that paste. I spoke with my barber and he said he gets both the paste and the strop for himself from Germany for roughly 8 euros so I'll ask him to order some for me as well.

 

[Craigo]

About a thousand or so passes later, I can finally cut my arm hair again (requires a few strokes though). Only problem I now is the edge (bevel?) uneven. My phone phone camera really sucks so I can't get a clear picture of it in good light, but it looks something like this:

I kinda want to get rid of that bumpy thing at the heel

 

[JPO]

About a thousand or so passes later, I can finally cut my arm hair again (requires a few strokes though). Only problem I now is the edge (bevel?) uneven. My phone phone camera really sucks so I can't get a clear picture of it in good light, but it looks something like this:
View attachment 1890503
I kinda want to get rid of that bumpy thing at the heel

This can be caused by the grind, by your honing, or a combination of both.
90% of the honing is shaping the razor, and creating a bevel plane that you can refine. The spine also needs to be a part of this plane. In principle this only needs to be done once.
This is the difficult part. These Titan and gold dollar razors actually needs to be shaped into something that can be honed. The geometry is probably set freehand on a belt sander. So, there usually is allot of work to be done, which is not that beginner friendly. Sometimes the steel can be compromised, and as a result it will never be able to take a good edge.
I baught 5 gold dollars once. One had compromised steel. One had geometry issues that was not worth sorting out. Two was acceptable as a test razor, but still needed allot of work. There was only one that I didn't need to spend too much time on.

If you get a vintage razor from someone with experience you just need to maintain it. It will make your straight razor journey allot easier.

Honing these Chinese razors as a beginner is like starting to sharpen knifes by starting with heavy reprofiling and thinning before being able to hone a good edge.
Even if you hone this razor and it doesn't work out you will still learn something. Just know that it doesn't need to be this difficult.

 

[Craigo]

I don't really mind the edge being a little uneven (like in the drawing, thinner at the tip and thicker at the heel), but that bump at the heel with definitely cause issues so I want to get rid of that..

Just know that it doesn't need to be this difficult.

Given my current budget and how "rare" finding someone in my country that knows about this type of stuff I don't think it can get much easier than this. If I had the money I probably would've gotten a higher quality razor and skip most of the work that I'm doing right now. I don't mind doing this by hand, I've got plenty of time. The only problem is I don't have someone over my shoulder telling me if I'm holding it right, if I'm using the right amount of pressure, and so on.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Really need to see a photo of the razor on both sides to properly advise you. Likely the razor needs heel correction.

Most vintage razors need some heel correction, 95% of the razors that come across my bench need/get some form of heel correction. It only literally takes a minute.

What your drawing portrays is a heel hook, left uncorrected the hook can cut you and worst preventing the razor from sitting flat on the stone.

Without a photo of the razor, we are just guessing at what the problem is, and if you make “corrections”, remove steel that is making the issue worst.

Post some photos, a bad photo is better than no photo, if you want accurate advice.

By the way, if you are doing (About a thousand or so passes), Stop! You are doing something wrong.

I hope you are using tape on the spine, if not you maybe causing more problems. Typically, new honers use too much pressure on low grit stones and do way too many laps, causing needless damage.

Use ink, tape the spine and post some photos.

 

[Saloogie]

@H Brad Boonshaft, a question on taping the spine -

Is it just to protect the spine from getting scuffed up or does it actually change the geometry of the blade against the stone? I noticed some do it and some don't.

Sorry if that's a silly question, but it's never actually explained in the vids I've seen. Thanks!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Tape will protect the spine from wear, new honers typically do too many laps learning to hone and can dramatically “wear/grind” the spine to the point where the bevel angle is altered so much that the razor will need to be honed with tape to produce a bevel angle that will hold an edge.

There is no down side to honing with tape. You cannot put steel back on a razor. The old myth that a razors spine and edge wear at the same rate has been debunked years ago.

No razors have been damaged by honing with tape, tons of razors can only be honed by using tape to make up for needlessly ground spines. Some spines need grinding for correction, but do so knowingly not willy nilly.

If learning to hone, tape the bevel. Once you have mastered honing, then decide if you want to continue to hone with tape.

 

[Saloogie]

Tape will protect the spine from wear, new honers typically do too many laps learning to hone and can dramatically “wear/grind” the spine to the point where the bevel angle is altered so much that the razor will need to be honed with tape to produce a bevel angle that will hold an edge.

There is no down side to honing with tape. You cannot put steel back on a razor. The old myth that a razors spine and edge wear at the same rate has been debunked years ago.

No razors have been damaged by honing with tape, tons of razors can only be honed by using tape to make up for needlessly ground spines. Some spines need grinding for correction, but do so knowingly not willy nilly.

If learning to hone, tape the bevel. Once you have mastered honing, then decide if you want to continue to hone with tape.

Great explanation. I didn't think about the spine wearing down over years of honing.

Makes perfect sense, thanks.

 

[Legion]

Great explanation. I didn't think about the spine wearing down over years of honing.

Makes perfect sense, thanks.

If you are wearing down the edge with years of honing, you also need to wear down the spine to match, otherwise you will be changing the geometry of the blade.

 

[Craigo]

Sorry, forgot to take the photos before sending the razor to a specialist. If the guy can't do anything and he sends it back I'm probably going to dump it and buy a high quality razor anyway. But I'll send pics anyway as soon as I get it. As for the stones I'll definitely throw them away or give them to someone for kitchen knives or something as I definitely can't do anything with them.

 

[LJS]

I’m still wondering if it is a razor shaped object? If someone is a specialist then they should know. For practice, or even common use, a vintage razor is always a good choice as long as it is in decent shape. Good luck

 

[jaro 101969]

Great explanation. I didn't think about the spine wearing down over years of honing.

Makes perfect sense, thanks.

oh also i'll put in a half cents worth here...

Sometimes even "new" razors that are of questionable origin ( china , etc) or not , MAY , have spines that are not a proper thickness and may actually be under the proper size to keep the intended bevel of the blade , So by adding a layer or 2 of tape you are getting the spine back to the right angle to correct a bad bevel angle ...