What Natural Finisher Do You Like?

[A_Shaves_91]

Hey Gents,

I hope this note finds you all well. I'm new to the honing game and am simply in the business of touching up my razors, at this point (which I'm having fun with). Currently, I have just an Atoma 400, Shapton Pro 8k and Naniwa (20mm) 12k Super Stone. Pretty basic starter set up but I've found that I like my edges coming off the Naniwa 12k and that it delivers as advertised on here as a solid synthetic finisher.

All that said, I have the itch to dig deeper down into the rabbit hole and know more about natural finishers. I keep reading and researching that natural finishers offer an edge keenness that can't be matched by that of a synthetic finisher. My question to the group - what natural finishers do you like to use and what would you recommend for something still just getting into the game? I'm interested in a second natural finisher to use either following my 8k Shapton or 12K Naniwa Super Stone that can take my edge up to that next level and give it a buttery finish.

I've read about Dan's Arks, Coticules, and Imperia La Roccia (ILRs) and of course JNats (which sound incredible but an investment and a bit of work to set up). Ideally, I'd like to keep the stone all in right around $100 and have something that is super consistent. What are your guys opinions on options? Look forward to your thoughts.

 

[Kyle89]

Arks are my favorite. Love my Coticule but these days I’ll usually follow it up with an Ark, although it can finish an edge itself. Very fond of the Imperia la Roccia personally but I know not everyone likes it. It’s possibly a little overpriced nowadays.

 

[Herrenberg]

A Dan's translucent Ark in 4x2x1/2 is $95.62 (just checked).

If you took away all my natural finishers, and gave me a $100 budget, that's exactly what I'd buy. I don't really understand why using a hard ark after something like your 12K produces such a comfortable, keen shaving edge, but I guess I can get along without understanding why.

 

[Legion]

A Dan's translucent Ark in 4x2x1/2 is $95.62 (just checked).

If you took away all my natural finishers, and gave me a $100 budget, that's exactly what I'd buy. I don't really understand why using a hard ark after something like your 12K produces such a comfortable, keen shaving edge, but I guess I can get along without understanding why.

Natural finishers can vary a lot, so one coticule, for example, might not finish like another. Having said that, translucent Arks are about the most consistent and safe of the natural stones, IME. Hard to go wrong with one of those.

But it is a rabbit hole. My “favorite” finisher changes every couple of weeks.

 

[Koop]

Natural finishers can vary a lot, so one coticule, for example, might not finish like another. Having said that, translucent Arks are about the most consistent and safe of the natural stones, IME. Hard to go wrong with one of those.

But it is a rabbit hole. My “favorite” finisher changes every couple of weeks.

This.

With a 12K edge, you can go any route you want, to take some of the sharp synthetic feeling away from it. My synthetic progression usually stops at 8K. I have a translucent Arkansas but I typically use a coticule as a pre-finisher before using the Ark. The Ark is very slow and the hard stone will not forgive any mistakes like dragging the razor edge over the corner of the stone. Sometimes I'll follow the coticule with an ILR and have had good results with it as well. I use glycerine on the Ark and ILR. Coticule as a pre-finisher isn't an inexpensive route though.

My latest acquisition was a couple of Jnats. You can find a Jnat finisher in a small handheld koppa (irregular) size for a surprisingly inexpensive price. If it comes with a tomo nagura, you're in business and it's arguably the best way to finish a 12K edge. If you don't have a tomo, a few gentle passes with a diamond plate will raise a slurry from the base stone - so don't leave a Jnat out of the possibilities.

These are just my thoughts on the subject. I'm no expert and I'm not saying these are the only stones to consider.

 

[Wid]

Put up a wanted to buy add. Most natural stones of any size will exceed you budget from a vendor.

Straight from a 12K do go with a thuri or a coticule.

Do you have a 3 to 5K stone?

 

[Tomo]

From your description it sounds like you need an Ark. A hard Ark will certainly bump a 12k edge. I’ve tried every finisher I could get my hands on and the Ark edge remains my favourite. They are one of the few natural finishers that are still being mined which makes them easy to find. A translucent is easy to ID visually and is a good sign of quality. A surgical black is just as good but needs to be bought from a trusted vendor or density measured to determine quality.

I would not recommend going smaller than 6x2”. Arks can be slow stones and it’s good to have a big runway. Buying from Dan’s is a safe bet. He has good stones and you can be confident in the quality. It also has the advantage that he ships them pretty flat. You could finish the surface prep with your Atoma.

People freak out about using diamond plates on Arks but I’ve done plenty and the plates keep going. If you want to save wear on your diamond plate you can tapper the edges of your stone with sand paper on your bench. I think most of the damage people experience is from sharp corners hitting with diamonds rather than wear from lapping.

My pick for your budget would be a Dan’s Surgical Black 6x2x1/2” for $108. It’s a stone for life. I have the 8x3x1 version and it’s a great stone. 6x2” is a nice size for razors.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Put up a wanted to buy add. Most natural stones of any size will exceed you budget from a vendor.

Straight from a 12K do go with a thuri or a coticule.

Do you have a 3 to 5K stone?

Good to know - I figured a lot of the natural finishers would get spendy quick. I do not have any lower grit stones at this point. Only the 8k and 12k!

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Thanks for the inputs and opinions. Cool to hear about what everyone prefers as a natural finishers. So many good options out there.

Sounds like Dan's Ark leads the pack. I did see his surgical black 6x2 for around a $100. Seems like a fair bet. The only thing that has slightly steered me away from Arks to start with is the prep process - first getting them flat with the powder grit and slate slab of glass and then the follow up burnishing process. To my understanding, once you do both of these, you're pretty much good to go for a long while (i.e., I don't need to lap the Ark every time before use like synthetics)? @Tomo if you're saying that it's feasible to just use my Atoma 400 to flatten and avoiding buying powders, glass slab, etc. that would be great. I don't mind putting some extra wear on my Atoma so long as it isn't hard on or damaging the Ark stone.

I'll do my homework on the forum in past threads but I'm assuming that I'll still need to burnish the Ark and then also get some of Dan's honing oil to cap things off for honing sessions. Definitely welcome further thoughts and appreciate you all taking the time.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

@Wid - good call on the BTS post natural finisher. I am still in the waiting period for BST.

 

[enlightenment]

Be sure to check out the Specials page on Dan's. They have a 6x2x1/2 for $109. Or a surgical black for $100 is good too.

I just got a 8x3x1 black ark from Dan's and it was very flat. Lapping was much easier and quicker than I expected

 

[Christian1212]

If you could wait and save I would get a 3" wide surgical black. I believe there is a 6x3x0.5 for 180. Makes the stone a lot easier to use and worth the extra $$ if using the stone for a lifetime (IMO).

Jnats are my favorite natural and coticules/arks are tied for second. If starting over I'd first get a nice surgical black, then start hunting for a jnat. Would save coticules for last as they can be very hit or miss.

 

[Legion]

Thanks for the inputs and opinions. Cool to hear about what everyone prefers as a natural finishers. So many good options out there.

Sounds like Dan's Ark leads the pack. I did see his surgical black 6x2 for around a $100. Seems like a fair bet. The only thing that has slightly steered me away from Arks to start with is the prep process - first getting them flat with the powder grit and slate slab of glass and then the follow up burnishing process. To my understanding, once you do both of these, you're pretty much good to go for a long while (i.e., I don't need to lap the Ark every time before use like synthetics)? @Tomo if you're saying that it's feasible to just use my Atoma 400 to flatten and avoiding buying powders, glass slab, etc. that would be great. I don't mind putting some extra wear on my Atoma so long as it isn't hard on or damaging the Ark stone.

I'll do my homework on the forum in past threads but I'm assuming that I'll still need to burnish the Ark and then also get some of Dan's honing oil to cap things off for honing sessions. Definitely welcome further thoughts and appreciate you all taking the time.

Once a hard Ark is properly lapped, if you are just using it as a razor finisher you may never need to lap it again.

Dan's stones reportedly come pretty flat. You can double check it with your atoma, then I like to further smooth the surface with 1k wet/dry paper. Burnishing is not really needed IMO, but it is pretty quick and easy. You can get Dans honing oil if you want, but any thin machine oil or mineral oil will work. Some people like to use WD40.

 

[JPO]

The only thing that has slightly steered me away from Arks to start with is the prep process - first getting them flat with the powder grit and slate slab of glass and then the follow up burnishing process.

I recently baught a translucent arkansas stone from Dan's. My stone came ready to use. One of the sides was more then flat enough. I don’t own any razors that needs to be honed on anything flatter then this.
My stone only needed to be used with some knifes to get the surface settled in. Burnishing is a waste of time in my opinion.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yup, a hard Ark, Translucent or Black or a Kopa Jnat, you don’t need a nagura, diamond slurry is all you need. Take a look at Alex Gilmore’s site, (JapanStones), he routinely hones razors on an 800 or 1k, jumps to a Jnat with diamond slurry, finishing on the same stone and thinned slurry.

If you go from 8,10, or 12k to a Jnat it is an easy jump. The same jump to an Ark, may be a bit tricky, as the quality of the edge going to an Ark will determine the quality of the edge that an Ark will polish.

Most of us who do a lot of honing, end up with either an Ark or Jnat edge, after trying all the others. Once you master the Jnat with diamond slurry you can experiment with nagura, (another rabbit hole). I typically finish on diamond slurry with a drop of .50um CBN, for a smooth, smoking edge.

So, first, make sure you are squeezing out the max performance from you 12k. Your 12k bevels should look like this. A good 12k edge stropped on .50um CBN, Diamond or Chrome Oxide is a very keen and comfortable edge.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I do like arks. I like other stones too but a translucent ark or a black from a reputable source are a pretty safe bet in terms of quality and price. As far as size goes, with the kind of strokes I'm doing at that point in the process I prefer length to width. I'd take an 8x2 over a 6x3. But if somebody gave me a 6x3 I wouldn't complain.

Thuringians are quite consistent too and easy to learn but they usually run higher, especially with intact labels. And there are shady sellers out there. So there's that.

The BST is a good option. My 3 most-used finishers came from there (translucent ark, thuringian, Naniwa 12k) and well below retail.

 

[Frank Shaves]

A Dan’s black or translucent hard Ark is an excellent choice. If you buy one, I would first try using it as. And you will need a lubricant. I am currently loving Norton Sharpening Stone Oil.

A hard, fine Nakayama JNAT is a beautiful stone. They are out there. Just not as easy to find as the Dan’s.

A fine Coticule is also a wonderful thing. Good vintage Coticules are out there. Might take some trial and error to find an excellent finisher. You can also buy a “new” Coticule from Ardennes-Coticule. You would need to tell Rob what you are looking for and be patient until he has what you are looking for.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I think I almost single-handedly put Dan’s kids through college.

A Dan's translucent Ark in 4x2x1/2 is $95.62 (just checked).

Wow! Dan’s kids must have got into medical school!

If only my stocks could have done as well as my Dan’s stones.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Yup, a hard Ark, Translucent or Black or a Kopa Jnat, you don’t need a nagura, diamond slurry is all you need. Take a look at Alex Gilmore’s site, (JapanStones), he routinely hones razors on an 800 or 1k, jumps to a Jnat with diamond slurry, finishing on the same stone and thinned slurry.

If you go from 8,10, or 12k to a Jnat it is an easy jump. The same jump to an Ark, may be a bit tricky, as the quality of the edge going to an Ark will determine the quality of the edge that an Ark will polish.

Most of us who do a lot of honing, end up with either an Ark or Jnat edge, after trying all the others. Once you master the Jnat with diamond slurry you can experiment with nagura, (another rabbit hole). I typically finish on diamond slurry with a drop of .50um CBN, for a smooth, smoking edge.

So, first, make sure you are squeezing out the max performance from you 12k. Your 12k bevels should look like this. A good 12k edge stropped on .50um CBN, Diamond or Chrome Oxide is a very keen and comfortable edge.

View attachment 1890096

What an edge.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Thanks for all in insights here Gents - it’s definitely appreciated. Dan’s Arks seem to lead the way pretty much unanimously which is impressive.