Karve vs. Muhle R41 (post 2013) vs...

[Earcutter]

Of course my Rockwell, Karve (D), and Gillette Adjustables can yield nearly the same closeness, but with a bit more forgiving nature, with the proper blade.

It's funny, I think at this stage in my DE shaving career the words "nearly" "a bit more" etc., etc. becomes the mantra. I mean there is really only so close before you're ripping off skin. What's awesome is I can define and notice "nearly." That's experience right there. A nice place to be when you are forking over good money really.

Anyway, when it comes to razors that are "nearly" - much of the differences are defined by the blade placed inside the razor. A bit more IS appreciated though. There is no question there.

As I ponder this all, I wonder if I shouldn't just have gotten a Parker Variant? From all accounts, it's "nearly" as keen and very comfortable... with the ability to change up the "tone" or feel on the fly. There is no way to know that without getting one - but more importantly, without knowing what others will do for you. I'll probably get one next month.

What would be a real kick in the pants is if after all this re-exploration of efficient DE's after having settled on my R41 so long ago, is if the same thing that happened to me with straights happens with DE's. I sort of stopped caring about BBS and went with relatively sloppy shaves so that I could use my soaps every day lol!

 

[les24preludes]

I sort of stopped caring about BBS and went with relatively sloppy shaves so that I could use my soaps every day lol!

It's hard to avoid 2 shaves a day when you're excited about a newly arrived razor, and at least one is needed to calm your excitement. But it does die down a bit.

Are you sure you want to go to an adjustable? With 3 piece razors you can be so much more creative, changing handles, baseplates and top caps. My Timeless OC .78 Bronze came alive with a titanium handle and turned into a bit of a Grail razor.

 

[cyberdog]

That's even better said, that at some point, the difference is so small, that you question whether it matters. Now I love the looks of my Timeless, and usually, that's my go-to razor. But, sometimes you just want to zone out and swipe away, not being overly careful, you want want the shave, enjoy the smell of the soap, etc. .

A LOT comes down to how you use your tools, no matter if it's shaving or some other project. Truth be told, using the Timeless and some of the other more 'aggressive' razors, capable of biting, may have honed my skill or technique, call it what you will. Rather than chasing BBS, it just comes to me pretty much every shave, with nearly any razor I've been using. (Timeless, Karve, Fat-Boy, Slim, Super-Adjustable, New SC/LC, or Rockwell, it doesn't really matter). As long as the blade is sharp enough to cut through those gray wiry whiskers, I'm BBS usually in two passes, three if I just want to inhale the soap and enjoy the moment.

At this point, I've just been using the various blades I've accumulated, and using up the soaps I have, which perhaps aren't my 'go-to' soap or scent.

 

[KRpdx]

As I ponder this all, I wonder if I shouldn't just have gotten a Parker Variant? From all accounts, it's "nearly" as keen and very comfortable... with the ability to change up the "tone" or feel on the fly. There is no way to know that without getting one - but more importantly, without knowing what others will do for you. I'll probably get one next month.

On the Variant...I really liked mine a lot, but the size of the head became a real issue for me, and I ended up selling it without second thoughts. If you don't mind hefty razors, it might be fine.

 

[Earcutter]

On the Variant...I really liked mine a lot, but the size of the head became a real issue for me, and I ended up selling it without second thoughts. If you don't mind hefty razors, it might be fine.

I read somewhere that you could use Mekur caps on it to give it a little less girth. FWIW.

 

[muzichead]

It's funny, I think at this stage in my DE shaving career the words "nearly" "a bit more" etc., etc. becomes the mantra. I mean there is really only so close before you're ripping off skin. What's awesome is I can define and notice "nearly." That's experience right there. A nice place to be when you are forking over good money really.

Anyway, when it comes to razors that are "nearly" - much of the differences are defined by the blade placed inside the razor. A bit more IS appreciated though. There is no question there.

As I ponder this all, I wonder if I shouldn't just have gotten a Parker Variant? From all accounts, it's "nearly" as keen and very comfortable... with the ability to change up the "tone" or feel on the fly. There is no way to know that without getting one - but more importantly, without knowing what others will do for you. I'll probably get one next month.

What would be a real kick in the pants is if after all this re-exploration of efficient DE's after having settled on my R41 so long ago, is if the same thing that happened to me with straights happens with DE's. I sort of stopped caring about BBS and went with relatively sloppy shaves so that I could use my soaps every day lol!

I've read a lot of positives and negatives about the Parker so you might want to research a little more. It seems to be one of those razors that its either loved or hated!! Much like the Progress!! I will say for me the 1st shave I ever had with my Timeless Ti95SB it was much more than "nearly" or "a bit more"!! It was an awakening for me and the complete downfall of the other razors I "had" at the time and completely cured my RAD and I stopped looking for the "grail" razor I'd been searching for. It wasn't even close for me and more in the sense of a "night and day" difference over anything I've used. I've since added a SS95DC from @cyberdog that was just a deal too good to pass on and I am really covered on all fronts now and don't ever have to worry about subtleties is my technique because they shave so close to each other. I can just enjoy my shave every time I set out to shave with not a worry in the world!!

That's even better said, that at some point, the difference is so small, that you question whether it matters. Now I love the looks of my Timeless, and usually, that's my go-to razor. But, sometimes you just want to zone out and swipe away, not being overly careful, you want want the shave, enjoy the smell of the soap, etc. .

A LOT comes down to how you use your tools, no matter if it's shaving or some other project. Truth be told, using the Timeless and some of the other more 'aggressive' razors, capable of biting, may have honed my skill or technique, call it what you will. Rather than chasing BBS, it just comes to me pretty much every shave, with nearly any razor I've been using. (Timeless, Karve, Fat-Boy, Slim, Super-Adjustable, New SC/LC, or Rockwell, it doesn't really matter). As long as the blade is sharp enough to cut through those gray wiry whiskers, I'm BBS usually in two passes, three if I just want to inhale the soap and enjoy the moment.

At this point, I've just been using the various blades I've accumulated, and using up the soaps I have, which perhaps aren't my 'go-to' soap or scent.

Can we get an AMEN here!!

 

[Earcutter]

I will say for me the 1st shave I ever had with my Timeless Ti95SB it was much more than "nearly" or "a bit more"!! It was an awakening for me and the complete downfall of the other razors I "had" at the time and completely cured my RAD and I stopped looking for the "grail" razor I'd been searching for.

That's AWESOME! But were you coming from a R41 or a Karve? Because if you were, I doubt it would have been so remarkable I'm thinking. And how long have you been using your Timeless? The reason you stopped is because you aren't bored yet. I had my 41 for a long time all contented... until RAD hit again lol.

Honestly, I'm just busting your chops. I mean, I doubt highly now that a Timeless coming from a 41 & Karve would blow me away - short of their awesome handles. But maybe? The fact is, there is only so efficient you can go before you're using a shavette lol! Smooth on the other hand... But I do congratulate anyone who finds their one! That's awesome. Truly. My one was simply a victim of boredom and unicorn seeking. There is no real reason I needed anything above my 41.

At this point, I think I'm just looking for a unicorn. But I'm way premature stating that with only one shave in with the Karve. The Karve could very well still prove to be above and beyond the 41. We'll see. I can't wait to ttry it with a Feather. My 41 liked Feathers fine - on the second shave. The first was just painful.

I got to say though... I'm looking at my spare 41, and then at my Karve, then back to the 41 and I'm wondering, how well their parts might mix and match LOL!! If I do go all Frankenrazor, you know I'm going to pick up a Timeless handle for it! Nom, nom.

I'm sick... I really am. But it's SO much FuN!

 

[les24preludes]

The Contenders: May 2019
- Muhle R41 bottom plate with Yintal Bronze top cap and Jurgen Hempel Ti handle, total weight 82g
- Timeless Bronze OC .78 with Evgeny Koshelev Ti handle, total weight 97g

 

[Earcutter]

The Contenders: May 2019
- Muhle R41 bottom plate with Yintal Bronze top cap and Jurgen Hempel Ti handle, total weight 82g
- Timeless Bronze OC .78 with Evgeny Koshelev Ti handle, total weight 97g

View attachment 977563 View attachment 977564

Spectacular! I can't wait!!

 

[les24preludes]

Spectacular! I can't wait!!

Well, it's a bit of a dead heat. Both give me truly BBS shaves and it's hard to pick a winner. Best 2 DE razors I've ever used. Old Types, Fatips, Slim etc now on the shelf. My GEMs (Micromatics, 1912) are still contenders, though. It's become a tough rotation to get into.

 

[Larry Telencio]

I have the R101 (R41 with the black resin handle) and the Karve with a D plate and I still prefer the R41. I use both feathers and polsilver blades.

 

[Earcutter]

I have the R101 (R41 with the black resin handle) and the Karve with a D plate and I still prefer the R41. I use both feathers and polsilver blades.

Cool. Thanks for the input!! Not to be funny, but can you put into words why? Smoother? Keener? Both? I'd really like to know. Assuming you can.

Have you ever thought about mixing up the heads etc.?

 

[Earcutter]

I thought that might be your answer to the question and makes sense using an R41 regularly. From what I've read from most Karve users is most are used as daily shavers and therefor falls into a completely different category from the R41 so you might take that into account and use it daily for a week or so...

I have the C plate coming in as well (in transit) - I completely expect that that plate might make daily shaving a possibility. I can tell you definitively that using the E plate, I would not be able to. Nope, no way. Too close.

UPDATE # 2

I have to eat a little crow (@muzichead). I stated pretty emphatically that using the E Plate would mean there would be no way I'd have to shave the next day. And for the most part, that was true. But my next day 5 o'clock shadow was here in force by 1pm. If I had an event tonight, I'd have to shave.

I know, I know. One shave is nothing - especially because I don't know what blade the Karve likes yet, but gents, I still have to eat crow. It's been a long time since I've had this much stubble going on mid-day.

 

[Larry Telencio]

Cool. Thanks for the input!! Not to be funny, but can you put into words why? Smoother? Keener? Both? I'd really like to know. Assuming you can.

Have you ever thought about mixing up the heads etc.?

To me I find the Karve a little more "clunky" not quite as agile as the R41. Per you suggestion maybe I try swapping thing around. Had open heart bypass a few months ago and till on blood thinners, so I try to be careful.

 

[Earcutter]

To me I find the Karve a little more "clunky" not quite as agile as the R41. Per you suggestion maybe I try swapping thing around. Had open heart bypass a few months ago and till on blood thinners, so I try to be careful.

Be careful! Glad you're doing well!

 

[Earcutter]

UPDATE #3:

Shave number two with my Karve utilizing the Personna Red again was spectacular. Holy smooth! And close! BBS close!



But when I say holy smooth, I mean not even a tingle with the Alum Block. Spectacular!

I’m going to refrain from comparing it to the 41 for a while. I need more time with the Karve. Comparing now, as much as I really want to just isn’t constructive.

I’m using a Feather next. I can’t wait for tomorrow’s shave.

 

[Earcutter]

Update #4

I've had two more shaves with the Karve since the last update. Both with a Feather blade. Both times with the E plate (I don't have my C closed or my F open comb yet).

Both shaves were awesome, but post shave - not so much. Moreover, was I to be using my R41, I'd have gotten a closer shave. Not by much, but closer all the same.

I don't know, I have to say I'm a little discouraged at this point. Of the 4 shaves I've had with it so far, only one was completely drama free. The razor just isn't performing as well as the R41, and though its more comfortable during the shave, post shave always leaves me uncomfortable. I've never had a razor that was so comfortable while shaving, but so uncomfortable afterword. Seriously odd. I always know if my 41 is going to make me uncomfortable. I'll pug away with a couple of other blades - if they don't work, I'll try the other plates. It'll work or it'll be sold.

 

[les24preludes]

This is very helpful - a few of us are on the ledge about the Karve OCs.

I have to confess that since I've tried two new handles on my R41 - a titanium Jurgen Hempel and a Wolfman Guerrilla - I've gone back to that even though I just got a Timeless Bronze OC .78 which I also love. I'm really getting to know the R41 and it's so darned reliable and predictable. It does exactly what you want it to, which is mostly to cut extremely close and without irritation.

 

[Earcutter]

This is very helpful - a few of us are on the ledge about the Karve OCs.

I have to confess that since I've tried two new handles on my R41 - a titanium Jurgen Hempel and a Wolfman Guerrilla - I've gone back to that even though I just got a Timeless Bronze OC .78 which I also love. I'm really getting to know the R41 and it's so darned reliable and predictable. It does exactly what you want it to, which is mostly to cut extremely close and without irritation.

It's still early, but man... thanks @les24preludes I'll keep plugging away in the name of science but know this, the Karve shaves are SO smooth when actually shaving!

 

[naughtilus]

Update #4

I've had two more shaves with the Karve since the last update. Both with a Feather blade. Both times with the E plate (I don't have my C closed or my F open comb yet).

Both shaves were awesome, but post shave - not so much. Moreover, was I to be using my R41, I'd have gotten a closer shave. Not by much, but closer all the same.

I don't know, I have to say I'm a little discouraged at this point. Of the 4 shaves I've had with it so far, only one was completely drama free. The razor just isn't performing as well as the R41, and though its more comfortable during the shave, post shave always leaves me uncomfortable. I've never had a razor that was so comfortable while shaving, but so uncomfortable afterword. Seriously odd. I always know if my 41 is going to make me uncomfortable. I'll pug away with a couple of other blades - if they don't work, I'll try the other plates. It'll work or it'll be sold.

You are describing my (and others) experience with the Fatip Testina Gentile. The smoothness is very deceptive and one becomes careless with what is a respectably efficient razor. Eventually one learns to properly weild the instrument.