Your take on fused vs. canvassed suits?

[Balcmeg]

I am in the fortunate position that I can have good quality suits made by tailor for a decent price (400USD and up). I knoiw pretty well what I like in terms of style and fabric, but one thing I cannot make up my mind about is wether the suit should be fused or canvassed.
(for those that do not know what fused and canvassed means - look here: http://artofmanliness.com/2010/02/1...-suit-school-part-i-fused-vs-canvassed-suits/)

I feel that a canvassed suit looks more elegant with the fabric smoother and natural while the fused suit is perkaps a bit stiff - a starched look. Since I have noone around me with eye for style I thought I better ask the Gentlemen here on B&B for opinions

 

[Crag]

Stefan,

About 10 years ago while Hong Kong I got the chance to have a suit made for me at Sam's. That suit was canvassed, and has been a luxury to wear all these years, but I have to honestly say that I have also purchased suits off the rack at local tailors and have had many of them feel and look just as good fused as canvassed. Luckily, my employer paid for the suit as a reward for a very good first quarter in sales.

That said, there definitely is something about having a quality suit made by Sam's. It was a special experience, and I felt quite pampered. Still I think the suit is about looks...If you can have it made for you, then get the best you can afford. I have some fused suits that are still going strong after 8 years...it really depends on the care you give to it.

Good luck, my friend!

 

[Balcmeg]

Matt,
I recently switched to Lee Baron (Middle road) and find him to be veryu good - he is the first tailor (of about 5-6 different) that noticed that my right shoulder is sloping a bit and adjusted the suit to compensate. Before Lee Baron I used Punjab House for many years and while very good I think they are overpricing a bit in comparison, but I have a wonderful black fused suit made form a Zegna fabric they made for me.

Off the rack suits are not an option for me here in Hong Kong - the only place I can find good sizes are at Marks & Spencer and i am not comfortable with their quality compared to price. On the other hand the Gives & Hwakes, Kent & Curwen, Blooks Brothers and trhe other good brands have good qualities but the price often more than double what I pay a Tailor.
Local brands are not an option since I do not conform to the average Asian bodyshape - and less so by every year

Thanks for your input!

 

[PharmerMat]

To be sure I understand, so that I don't answer the wrong question

Are you trying to decide between a custom tailored fused canvas suit VS a custom tailor hand canvased suit? in that case it depends on your preference. as you said the fused suit will have a more rigid structure, and will not conform to your body as well (therefore it may be slightly more restrictive).

If you are trying to decide between a custom tailored hand canvased suit VS an "off the rack" fused canvas suit, go for the Custom tailor

 

[Balcmeg]

To be sure I understand, so that I don't answer the wrong question

Are you trying to decide between a custom tailored fused canvas suit VS a custom tailor hand canvased suit? in that case it depends on your preference. as you said the fused suit will have a more rigid structure, and will not conform to your body as well (therefore it may be slightly more restrictive).

If you are trying to decide between a custom tailored hand canvased suit VS an "off the rack" fused canvas suit, go for the Custom tailor

Hehe, I tend to write too much sometimes The chioce is between Tailored fused or canvassed. I have both kinds in my wardrobe already but wanted an outside perspective. After all, cancassing is an old method and sometimes old methods can be replaced by new ones that are just as food or better. (Not in the case of DS shaving though) My own position is that I am leaning towards canvassed, even if that increase the price from USD360 to USD705.

 

[Doc4]

Canvassed.

No question about it.

The fused suit is a modern development to allow suits to be made qucikly and cheaply by machine; it's not an "improvement", but an efficient means of cutting corners. (And so, to the owners of the suit manufacturing factories, it's certainly an improvement. )

 

[Bill Smith]

canvassed.

No question about it.

The fused suit is a modern development to allow suits to be made qucikly and cheaply by machine; it's not an "improvement", but an efficient means of cutting corners. (and so, to the owners of the suit manufacturing factories, it's certainly an improvement. )

+1000

 

[binowatch]

Canvassed-not even a question. While it is true the modern fusing techniques have improved and can give a serviceable jacket, there is nothing like the fit and feel of a fully or even half canvassed garment. A good one looks great, drapes beautifully and feels like you are wearing a sweater.

 

[Balcmeg]

Well, well. What a contrast! Seesm we are all in agreement Just like in Shaving the new (multi-blade) does not always beat the old (DS)!

I recently cleaned out the old and worn of the closet and are left with one black fused and one medium grey three piece convassed. I think I saw a great midnight blue fabric in 130 super at the tailors last time that should be the next one, unless i get some stripes, hmmm. Pity that suits are more difficult to hide from SWMBO than a razor!!

EDIT: With contrast I meant to another thread I was reading before this - with a more controversioal topic than how suits are made

 

[GlobalGentleman]

Hello Stefan,
I agree with the other chaps on canvassed as a preference, but please consider and remember this. A custom canvassed suit in Asia will be very different from a custom canvas in Milan or London. The suit is only as good as the tailor creating it...his 'canvas' so to paint on (sorry for the pun but I couldn't resist).

HK and Asian tailors will typically hand stitch the canvas, but in final stages they will machine press instead of hand shaping and pressing (the european tendency). This 'sets' the final shape of the suit very differently and affects the drape and overall fit. It's similar to trying to repair a Patek with a hammer and butterknife....it may get the job done but the final result will be something far from a work of art.

This is just food for thought. Custom is the way to go, as well as canvas and you can't beat the price to value ratio in HK compared to Europe, etc.

I hope you enjoy your experience and please share with us your choice on fabric, gorge/drop, tailor, etc later on.

Best wishes mate!

 

[Balcmeg]

Hello Stefan,
HK and Asian tailors will typically hand stitch the canvas, but in final stages they will machine press instead of hand shaping and pressing (the european tendency). This 'sets' the final shape of the suit very differently and affects the drape and overall fit. It's similar to trying to repair a Patek with a hammer and butterknife....it may get the job done but the final result will be something far from a work of art.

This was new to me, but not surprising. I never expected to get Saville row quality at a Hong Kong price.

My previous longer relation with a tailor have been Punjab House on nathan Rd in TST/HK. First time there was a stop-over on my way back to Sweden from Manila and I staryed with them for seven years - the last suit made there was 2-3 years ago in a black E. Zegna fabric (Super 130). Fused and single beasted, 2-buttons.

I do not rememer the maker of the fabric (only that it is Italian) for the canvassed suit just bought at LeeBaron in HK (Middle rd), but this was also a super 130 fabric. I never really felt the need to go for a thinner quality - it seems too easy to wear out. I paid 5500HKD for this one, about 700USD, went in there in the morning and had the based fitting in the evening (I onluy had one day in HK this time and NEEDED a new suit!).

The result was pretty good - for one thing he had as the first tailor i visited noticed that my left shoulder slope a bit compared to the right and adjusted the jacket. He also changed the design a bit, using even less padding at the shoulders to make it a natural shoulder whish I been wanting for some time.

When it arrived about a week later it was a good fit. Not perfect, but he already warned me that he could not make it perfect on just one based fitting. The pants turned up a little bit too wide at the waist, stiull stay up without a belt, but if i put some loose change in them they start to drag. Easily fixed by a belt of course (I always use belt)
The jacket has probably the best fit on a tailkor made I have had so far - I did notice that there is some excess fabrick on the back, not at the neck which is a common problem, but just behind and level with the armpits (could be because I find the arm holes a bit too wide).

All in all very good job and nice finishing. I do whish they could include hand swen button holes as well, but it's not standard and I forgot to ask what it cost this time.

I should also add that the above issues I had with the suit I mentioned to the tailor in amail and he just toold me to come in next time i am in HK and they will fix it in half a day.

I noticed that pictures are popular in this forum so i just took this one - by iPhone and on my office door so bear with teh quality..

 

[GlobalGentleman]

That's great! Thanks for the pic....have to love the iPhone it solves multiple daily problems for me with ease!

Glad to hear you've had enjoyable experiences with those tailors. It's true, for the price, you cannot beat the semi-custom experience they offer. As you say, they are very helpful with quick fitting and manufacturing also.

Just remembered something else which may be of interest? I've previously taken in photos from magazines, etc to the tailor if I'm looking for them re-create a certain look for me. For example, Neopolitan style or Savile Row style....it won't come out exact, but it gives them more direction on what you need them to focus on when adding details such as ticket pocket angle (I see you have) or slope of the shoulder, etc. Most seem very open to comply, maybe for a slight extra fee, but well worth it I believe.

And you're absolutely correct on the fabric...I wouldn't go higher than super 120's in my humble opinion. Above that it just becomes too fine for the humid Asia climate and will pucker, along with the fact that it takes very skilled handwork to make such a fine fabric drape beautifully (especially at the seams)...which is where that machine pressing I mentioned destroys the characteristics of such a fine fabric. 100's-130's and you've got yourself a nice wide option range of lovely tessuti to choose from my friend.

Have a great afternoon.

Cheers!

 

[Balcmeg]

iPhone with Evernote gets the pic right up in the cloud and i can fetch it to both office and home computer witout mailing or conncting with cable!

As for style and details I have thought of bringing pictures, but this first time I was wearing a suit I was not really satisfied with (without telling the tailor that) and we used that as a starting point for discussong how my new one would look. Its a simple way to test if he can spot the mistakes in both styling and fitting - this one actually found more than I had - but he commented in a good way since he still believed that I liked the suit My only mistake was that I forgot to ask him about hand swen button holes at the time - I mailed him today and it would only have cost me 200HKD extra

As for going up in quality, It will also wear faster, so instead if buying one extra set of pants for a suit I would order two extra, if not the pants would wear out faster than the jacket.

Im going back there in a couple of weeks to have the new suit adjusted and order a second. I'm thinking Navy this time - or perhaps a midnight blue from same manufacturer as this grey. at the sample it looks great but I might change my mind when I see a larger area pf the fabric. Still think midnight would look great - I usually go for patterned shirts, white, light blue, lavender or light pink.
Midnight blue suit, pink shirt and a brown striped tie perhaps... What is this particular AD called? SAD is already taken if I'm not mistaken

 

[Ronan the BARBERian]

This was new to me, but not surprising. I never expected to get Saville row quality at a Hong Kong price.

My previous longer relation with a tailor have been Punjab House on nathan Rd in TST/HK. First time there was a stop-over on my way back to Sweden from Manila and I staryed with them for seven years - the last suit made there was 2-3 years ago in a black E. Zegna fabric (Super 130). Fused and single beasted, 2-buttons.

I do not rememer the maker of the fabric (only that it is Italian) for the canvassed suit just bought at LeeBaron in HK (Middle rd), but this was also a super 130 fabric. I never really felt the need to go for a thinner quality - it seems too easy to wear out. I paid 5500HKD for this one, about 7000USD, went in there in the morning and had the based fitting in the evening (I onluy had one day in HK this time and NEEDED a new suit!).

The result was pretty good - for one thing he had as the first tailor i visited noticed that my left shoulder slope a bit compared to the right and adjusted the jacket. He also changed the design a bit, using even less padding at the shoulders to make it a natural shoulder whish I been wanting for some time.

When it arrived about a week later it was a good fit. Not perfect, but he already warned me that he could not make it perfect on just one based fitting. The pants turned up a little bit too wide at the waist, stiull stay up without a belt, but if i put some loose change in them they start to drag. Easily fixed by a belt of course (I always use belt)
The jacket has probably the best fit on a tailkor made I have had so far - I did notice that there is some excess fabrick on the back, not at the neck which is a common problem, but just behind and level with the armpits (could be because I find the arm holes a bit too wide).

All in all very good job and nice finishing. I do whish they could include hand swen button holes as well, but it's not standard and I forgot to ask what it cost this time.

I should also add that the above issues I had with the suit I mentioned to the tailor in amail and he just toold me to come in next time i am in HK and they will fix it in half a day.

I noticed that pictures are popular in this forum so i just took this one - by iPhone and on my office door so bear with teh quality..

I sorry but I have to say and I hope Im wrong, YMMV and all that but neither the picture nor and the description you have given, describe or show a good custom made or "Semi bespoke" or "made to measure" suit especially not one in the price range of $7000 USD. (I hope this is a TYPO)

A well made suit with a "rolled collar" should look sharper than than even when it is on a clothes hangar.

Even a good off the rack suit should not have extra material behind the neck, and a tailored "made to measure" or never mind a "bespoke" suit should NEVER have a have any extra material or folds behind the arms if your tailor is competent.If you find this common you are wearing a jacket that is at least a size too large for you.

No sales person worth his salt should sell this to you off the rack and I would never step foot again in a tailors shop where If I was sold a suit that fits like you have described after being measured for it, either the tailor who measured you or the cutter who made the pattern is incompetent.

The photo looks like the a fused suit that while it may have been ok when purchased but now has lost all its form after being cleaned a dozen times.

Hand sown openable buttons like "non key hold eyelets" and even Super 1XX fabric etc are all well and good but are just style with no substance if not backed up with a quality cut and canvased construction which are the foundation of a good suit.

 

[Balcmeg]

YMMV and all that, yes - but I think your commenst here are uneccessarily negative, bordering on offensive - maybe that was your intention?

Of course 7000USD was wrong - 700 is the right amount.

 

[Ronan the BARBERian]

YMMV and all that, yes - but I think your commenst here are uneccessarily negative, bordering on offensive - maybe that was your intention?

Of course 7000USD was wrong - 700 is the right amount.

My sincere apologies, that was not my intention at all.

| have had suits adjusted to fit me perfectly by good tailors and ruined by bad ones.

What I was trying to get across is, that if you are paying for a made to measure suit, then what you should be delivered is a suit, that at the very least fits you better than of an off the rack equivalent for the same price. Otherwise whats the point?

If you buy off the rack and bring to a tailor for alterations, with a single fitting, your jacket and trousers should at least fit after. With a made to measure suit it should fit better. I appreciate that some tweaks like the adjusting shoulders and tweaking the waist of the jacket can be done better after.

If I got a pair of trousers back that didn't fit me in the waist after being measured, I would be asking my self some questions in either of the above cases.

 

[woody3691]

Coming late to the party but enjoyed the blogs so far. I'm in Bangkok, the home of the 24 hour suit. I have to laugh at people who try to get a quality custom suit made with one or even two fittings in 24 to 48 hours. 9 times out of 10 that wool fabric you selected is just a poly blend. Fusing is a certainty. Styling is pretty much an unknown here. If you don't know exactly what you want, armed with a jacket to copy or at least some photos and explicit instructions, you'll wind up with some hideous garment and you would have been much better off buying OTR from any decent manufacturer and have a tailor do the alterations. One thing you need to know is that every tailor here will tell you he can do exactly what you want. Don't believe it. Now, there are some exceptions. I'm not a tout but actually just a victim of some poor tailoring experiences. I've had 7 suits made from 5 different tailors here. I've stayed mostly with Thai tailors and not Indian tailors because the Indian tailors are more geared to the in and out tourist and they specialize in the 2 suits/5 shirts for $300 deals. Two suits were fused and they came out okay. Nicely styled, well tailored with great attention to detail. Had about 4 fittings and two adjustments after I picked the suits up. Two suits from another establishment gave me multiple fittings but ultimately, the jackets just weren't right. Two other suits from two different tailors, both using full canvass had mixed results. One suit, where I supplied Dormiuel fabric was cut too short in the back and the collar pulled away from the neck line. After many revisions, the tailor purchased a meter of the same fabric to redo the jacket. The other suit was another full canvass job, also with fabric I supplied from Scabal. Only complaint was that the working button holes were put in place before the exact sleeve length was determined. A sleeve adjustment left me with only an inch before cuff and first button hole. Tailor should have known better but now I certainly do and wouldn't let that happen again. Lastly, a really well made suit from my 5th tailor. Full canvass, more fittings than I can count. 2 months in the works, everything hand stitched. A perfect fit, bone buttons, etc. Any downside? That suit cost me double what the others cost. Maybe that tells you something. Told me something. Unfortunately, I have to use this tailor's fabrics, they will not let me supply my own. They have a broad selection but it's always nice to have the luxury of supplying your own fabric.

BTW, every tailor here makes great pants. I get my suit pants with DAKS waist (elastic waistband with 2 - 3 buttons), reverse pleats, button fly, secret waistband pockets, cuffs, fully lined, etc. Uniformly every tailor made the slacks almost identically. The jacket is the big deal. Shirts are a bargain here, any style, from $30 - 80 and that you can get in a 36 hour turn-around.

But for the traveler who comes to Bangkok for a long weekend or even a week, don't waste your money on suiting. Not enough time to make a real custom tailored suit with proper fitting. And I really don't recommend have a suit mailed to you. Unless you have a long standing relationship with a tailor and are familiar with his work it's taking a chance.

 

[scottish steve]

I've never had a made-to-measure suit, though i do intend to get one at some point, here in Suzhou where the prices are ludicrously low- don't know about the quality as yet.
One thing I would say is that unless you're a weird body shape, if you go to the right place, ready-made suits can be very nice indeed. In Glasgow, there is a branch of Slaters Menswear and in addition to having several thousand suits & jackets on offer, they will raise both the cuff and skirt of any jacket and hem your trousers, extremely professionally and at no charge. This makes a huge difference. If you go in there with a couple of hundred quid, you can get a jacket that only someone who has actually had one made-to-measure will notice any problem with- and possibly not even then. If you tell them how you want it to fit and you know what you're doing, you'll get a peach

 

[Alacrity59]

Don't worry if the sleeves are too long, you'll find they'll ride up with wear. ...