X pattern disadvantages?

[PolsBirthday]

There's probably an easy answer for this, but I haven't found it.....

I use a straight stroke when honing, and a rolling stroke for a smiling edge, and my question is this:

On a wider hone (such as a norton) does the "X" pattern not hone the toe quicker than the heel? It seems it is in contact with the hone for a larger period of time, and I know the toe is more important for precision, but methinks the razor should be uniform, what am I missing here?

 

[cityjim]

Anytime you perform an X pattern you tend to oversharpen the middle and partial sharpen the toe and or heel . Center of the blade has stone contact all the time while ends partial coverage .

Obviously best to use a stone wider than your blade .


cityjim

 

[Oxi]

But on a smiling blade you still need to perform a rolling X pattern.

 

[ambrose]

40 - 45 degrees for a smile or a bow

 

[Chimensch]

Obviously best to use a stone wider than your blade.

Actually, because some blades are warped and one side and won't lay flat on the hone, I prefer hones that are narrower than the blade, which forces you to use an X-stroke all the time without overhoning any part.

 

[cityjim]

Good point about a smile or frown blade Chimensch . A smile or frown blade usually comes from a narrow stone or someone putting excessive pressure on the toe or heel .

On a curved blade I take a coarse diamond stone to it . Run the blade in a perpendicular motion to straighten the edge back to normal . Few strokes and you are back to an actual "straight" razor .



cityjim

 

[Chimensch]

Good point about a smile or frown blade Chimensch . A smile or frown blade usually comes from a narrow stone or someone putting excessive pressure on the toe or heel .

On a curved blade I take a coarse diamond stone to it . Run the blade in a perpendicular motion to straighten the edge back to normal . Few strokes and you are back to an actual "straight" razor .

I think you're talking about breadknifing a smiling or frowning blade. I'm talking about a blade that is warped, i.e., when you do the black marker test you discover that the entire blade isn't touching the hone on one side. What I'm trying to say is that 3"-wide hones, i.e., Norton 4k/8k, etc., are probably too wide for razors. I have two vintage coticules and a Charnley Forest hone that are both narrow and I think that was the reason.

 

[Utopian]

Anytime you perform an X pattern you tend to oversharpen the middle and partial sharpen the toe and or heel . Center of the blade has stone contact all the time while ends partial coverage .

Obviously best to use a stone wider than your blade .


cityjim

Sorry, but this is not correct. There is a reason why every barber hone made in the last 100 years was narrower than the blade. A wide hone can be used but it is not necessary if you do the x-stroke properly, as the pressure is not uniform during the entire stroke.

 

[leighton]

There's probably an easy answer for this, but I haven't found it.....

I use a straight stroke when honing, and a rolling stroke for a smiling edge, and my question is this:

On a wider hone (such as a norton) does the "X" pattern not hone the toe quicker than the heel? It seems it is in contact with the hone for a larger period of time, and I know the toe is more important for precision, but methinks the razor should be uniform, what am I missing here?

It will if you do it improperly. Ie, spend more time on the toe than the heel.

You don't have to, and I don't suggest it, move the blade all the way so that just the very toe touches the edge of the hone. However, smiling blades are an exception, you have to do advanced things with them. So we'll keep the discussion to flat blades.

You have to learn the size of you hone and how much lateral movement is necessary for your razor to evenly hone all points. For a thinner hone, more lateral movement is required and for a 3" hone, not as much is recommended, one of the reasons I like a 2-2.5" hone.

 

[professorchaos]

Actually, because some blades are warped and one side and won't lay flat on the hone, I prefer hones that are narrower than the blade, which forces you to use an X-stroke all the time without overhoning any part.

What else can I say other than that I agree? Yet I might add that you can simulate this technique with wider hones, Just focus on using the bottom inch or two of the hone.

 

[English]

If you use a hone that is wider than the blade length, all of the edge should be honed evenly.

It is correct that an X pattern on a narrower hone will put a frown over time.

Even the old barbers text books warn to correct for this problem.

You correct by honing the tip and the heel with a few extra runs accross the hone each honing session.

I found out first hand using a narrow belgian and the one razor for a few years.

This said, the correction doesn't take long.