How do I know I'm done with an Arkansas - second honing

[kayvee]

2x Ax - on a clean stone each time (just needed to wipe the swarf away, but I lapped as well)

I also changed the direction (angled) of the X's to make sure the stria left is only that of the 8K. I couldn't see any stria in the old direction.

Now I see some of the mirror edge. There's still a few stray stria, but mostly mirror.

 

[rbscebu]

Just stropped and shaved on the new edge posted at #36 above. Completed my usual 2.5/3 pass shave including ATG on the neck. Got a DFS, though I felt the blade was sharp at times. I could use the entire blade (well almost... does anyone really ever use the heel?) including the toe which had troubled me earlier. Couple of irritations but no weepers, nicks etc...

Like I said - a DFS. I should try and stop smiling

Now you're getting there. Congratulations. It only gets better!

Don't worry about trying to get a BBS result. That will come without any additional effort on your part as your technique subconsciously improves in both honing and shaving. Then you may have the problem that you will have nothing to shave 24 hours later.

Next I am going to try and work out a treatment for our addiction. This may be an impossible task. The only known cure that works is rather drastic - death.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Looks good, edge looks super straight.

Good work.

 

[TexNat]

Very nice work KV.

 

[kayvee]

Thank you all, particularly @H Brad Boonshaft.

I had another good shave today. The blade felt sharp as usual. Had a nick and the usual amount of razor burns. I think I just got a little too careless. Will continue with this edge for a few days before I proceed to the HBA.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

ive recently started having the philosophy of "when you think you have finishe4d on a stone and your ready to progress, do 25 more laps. ive been going untill i feel there is nothing more i can get out of the sotne on everyu stone from bevel setting to finishing, i go untill i feel like the feed back isnt changing anymore and then do 10-15 laps more after that to be sure, even on the 12k. everybody ive heard says to be careful how many passes you do on a finishing stone. on this last razor i just listened to the stone and stopped going by numbers of laps and i have done that on another razor besides this one and i have yet to "overhone" one of my razors. i dont even think thats possible anymore.dont worry you'll get there. i usually dont settle for a "good enough" shave from an edge anymore. for me it has to reach a standard or ill go back to the stones sometimes if i feel ive messed up in setting a bevel ill go further back until i get the bevel set to exactly how i want it or even better. as far as bevel setting goes ive found that everytime someone has told me that you should set the bevel by going until it can just start to cut hair is flat out wrong in my opinion. for me i go until i can shave hair up and down the blade getting 90 percent or morre of the hairs in one test pass on my arm with just the weight of the blade or less and not feel it cut the hairs but only feel the metal against my skin. thats whats gotten me my best edges. all the traditional advice i got about bevel setting hasnt really helped me out at all. i think it was actually a stumbling block for me

 

[alex1921]

ive recently started having the philosophy of "when you think you have finishe4d on a stone and your ready to progress, do 25 more laps. ive been going untill i feel there is nothing more i can get out of the sotne on everyu stone from bevel setting to finishing, i go untill i feel like the feed back isnt changing anymore and then do 10-15 laps more after that to be sure, even on the 12k. everybody ive heard says to be careful how many passes you do on a finishing stone. on this last razor i just listened to the stone and stopped going by numbers of laps and i have done that on another razor besides this one and i have yet to "overhone" one of my razors. i dont even think thats possible anymore.dont worry you'll get there. i usually dont settle for a "good enough" shave from an edge anymore. for me it has to reach a standard or ill go back to the stones sometimes if i feel ive messed up in setting a bevel ill go further back until i get the bevel set to exactly how i want it or even better. as far as bevel setting goes ive found that everytime someone has told me that you should set the bevel by going until it can just start to cut hair is flat out wrong in my opinion. for me i go until i can shave hair up and down the blade getting 90 percent or morre of the hairs in one test pass on my arm with just the weight of the blade or less and not feel it cut the hairs but only feel the metal against my skin. thats whats gotten me my best edges. all the traditional advice i got about bevel setting hasnt really helped me out at all. i think it was actually a stumbling block for me

I am curious. What kind of traditional advice regarding bevel setting you got that actually hindered you?

Regarding laps. There is no number of laps. You need as many as you need to finish a razor.
There are so many variables.
- Steel hardness.
- Condition of the edge. Going from 1k to 12k will require more work than from 8k.
- Is the razor straight? On a razor where you can hone up and down, the toe for example touches the stone for the whole lap. If you honing a curved razor and doing a rolling x the toe only touches the stone during a limited time of your lap. So you need many more laps to get the same effect.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

last razor i just listened to the stone and stopped going by numbers of laps

This is a good approach.

 

[JPO]

I am curious. What kind of traditional advice regarding bevel setting you got that actually hindered you?

Regarding laps. There is no number of laps. You need as many as you need to finish a razor.
There are so many variables.
- Steel hardness.
- Condition of the edge. Going from 1k to 12k will require more work than from 8k.
- Is the razor straight? On a razor where you can hone up and down, the toe for example touches the stone for the whole lap. If you honing a curved razor and doing a rolling x the toe only touches the stone during a limited time of your lap. So you need many more laps to get the same effect.

The only test I have ever done is to feel the edge with my fingers, and treetopped some arm hair after I finished.
My fingers have never been wrong. I do the same with knifes.
Murray Carter style aka, the three finger test for edge sharpness.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

I am curious. What kind of traditional advice regarding bevel setting you got that actually hindered you?

Regarding laps. There is no number of laps. You need as many as you need to finish a razor.
There are so many variables.
- Steel hardness.
- Condition of the edge. Going from 1k to 12k will require more work than from 8k.
- Is the razor straight? On a razor where you can hone up and down, the toe for example touches the stone for the whole lap. If you honing a curved razor and doing a rolling x the toe only touches the stone during a limited time of your lap. So you need many more laps to get the same effect.

basically when they say to "get the bevel just sharp enough to start cutting hairs" i found that to get me some uncomfortable dull shaving. so i say just go untill it cut hairs on your arm or chest with the weight of the blade or less and cnat feel them being cut ie tugging. to the point that all of the blade will catch almost all hairs on a single swipe of the chest or arms with the grain. i generally try to get the bevel as sharp as humanly possible before moving on up to the midrange and polishing grits

 

[Calou]

My two cents.
Where I come from, the bevel setting consists only of obtaining the two sides of the flat triangle, with a defined angle, to meet at the edge. Whether the edge is not fine enough or in a condition to cut hairs is not the question of this step but that of the refinement of the edge.
I imagine that your definition of bevel setting is different.

 

[Empire straights]

Looks good to me. I try to do a touch up every time I shave. It takes 2 mins and you get good fresh edges every time. That bevel looks mirrored and real straight, it might bite, use a light touch.

 

[Empire straights]

basically when they say to "get the bevel just sharp enough to start cutting hairs" i found that to get me some uncomfortable dull shaving. so i say just go untill it cut hairs on your arm or chest with the weight of the blade or less and cnat feel them being cut ie tugging. to the point that all of the blade will catch almost all hairs on a single swipe of the chest or arms with the grain. i generally try to get the bevel as sharp as humanly possible before moving on up to the midrange and polishing grits

Yep, I do the grinding this way, and go until it's right. After that I do lots of circles up through the end of what that rock does and then some quick x strokes to wipe off any foil. I generally never use more than 3 stones to sharpen anything I hone unless I'm going to a very specific edge feel to grab or cut a specific material(ie Dalmore edges love white pine). I seem to favor stones with a wide range, probably because I pretty much only use natural stone and o haven't really used many synths save India, SiC, and cheap Chinese synth waterstones. That's a whole different ballgame. Much more narrow range but does the job perfectly. I really like my natural stones, I seem to rarely find on I hate because I can find a use for all of them.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

My two cents.
Where I come from, the bevel setting consists only of obtaining the two sides of the flat triangle, with a defined angle, to meet at the edge. Whether the edge is not fine enough or in a condition to cut hairs is not the question of this step but that of the refinement of the edge.
I imagine that your definition of bevel setting is different.

ok if being able to cut hair is beyond the scope of the definition of setting the bevel. then take one that wont cut hair and just go up the progression haha

 

[Empire straights]

ok if being able to cut hair is beyond the scope of the definition of setting the bevel. then take one that wont cut hair and just go up the progression haha

I've sure made that mistake before...