Why SE won the battle but lost the war to DE

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

This is my personal opinion only, having used both styles over the past three months. The end result in my case for either SE or DE is a pretty smooth shave. If I am candid, on average the SE delivers a slightly smoother shave each time. The Gem 1912 and the Junior are personal favorites of mine.

Here is how DE won the war: it is not only about the end result, it is about the experience.

Having been reasonably active here on the forum it seems that many of us do the wet shave for how it feels as well as what it delivers. It sure isn't to save time, nor is it to save money! The experience and process are what we value. Note how many of us enjoy a variety of aftershaves, talcs, pre-shave oils, brushes, shave lotions and on and on. When we are done we have had an enjoyable time pampering ourselves each morning and have a terrific shave unavailable from the old cartridge and Can 'O Goup we used to endure before The Light came into our life.

So if we value the experience then I believe a DE wins out and does so on two fronts. First I find the added weight of the head compared to an SE to be an advantage in holding it against the beard as well as retaining heat. There is something about being a guy and having a razor with a nice balance and a bit of heft to it - it is somehow more masculine than a lightweight razor. To have the heat of a warmed razor against the cheek is a pleasant sensation any morning.

Secondly, the DE is audibly more pleasant. It would be easy to discount this but truly, any SE (and I have tried at least six) has a "raspy" sound to it as you shave, somewhat like 80 grit sandpaper. A DE razor (I have the TTO in mind), in contrast, muffles the beard as it is shorn simply due to the design of the head. It is quieter and somehow more reassuring to hear. It purrs as it works. The final nail in the coffin surely was the adjustable DE as I am not aware of an SE that was adjustable.

So that's my take on the matter, your thoughts?

 

[jsj_297]

Well, being a week into the whole SE experience, and Ive been nothing but super impressed with my OCMM. First shave was decent, and since, I have been getting smooth irritation free bbs shaves w/ an ATG pass. I have been unable to do the ATG pass with the DE, w/o ingrowns and serious irritation.

Blades, I am still on my first GEM SS from walgreens, finished my 5th shave and going for 6. So that will calculate to under 10 cents a blade, so its more cost effective for me. (Feathers being 13.3 to 20 cents a pop for me, 2-3 shaves)

Ive yet to surrender, sign any treaties or call for mass troop withdrawls in the SE war. Im giving it a while before I can announce my victor.

The SE is a very strong competitor, its no slouch my any means, and I for one am becoming a believer very, very, quickly too!!

 

[buyandhold2018]

I've used a lot of different tools to shave; my favorite is still the DE razor because for me it feels the most comfortable to use. It just feels more natural when shaving my own face. I like the straight handle, the weight and especially the weight the the razor head.

That said, I believe you can achieve an irritation-free, BBS shave with many different type of sharp razors.

The key, IMO, is the prep of the beard and the right lubricants.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I think you're over glamorizing/romanticizing the experience of shaving decades ago. Gillette won out because millions of men got them during the war and that's what they were used to using, and Gillette simply out advertised the competition.

 

[drews50]

I like the raspy sound of a SE. It reassures me that I'm doing it right. With a DE I feel I'm guessing.

I find the early SE razors are light. But the Damaskeene onward to the OCMM feels just fine.

With a TTO DE you open the doors, slide a razor out of the Gillette holder right into the shaver without handling the blade. That's a plus. That plus disappears with most of the blades we buy that are individually wrapped and require handling. All SE razors require blade handling.

DE styling is better, nice gold and nickel plated razors with machined knurling.
SE razors can be had for a lot less money. For the price of a fatboy you can get 4 SE razors.

Lately I have been using SE razors over DEs simply because I think I get a better, more comfortable shave. YMMV.

 

[Greyfox]

Well I like them both. Just depends on what I feel like using on a particular day. Gillette won out because they invested huge money to develop a very sucessful marketing plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cyy_rziuk

I mean how many companies had their own "Gillette Look Sharp March"?

 

[David in Boston]

Tried both SE and DE.

DE won out.

Just like DE a bit better.

The only thing I had against SE was blade purchase and price.

SE blades are not available in many area stores and the cost was a lot higher compared to DE blades which I can get for pennies.

Still SE razors do look much nicer.

 

[ShavinBacon]

I believe Gillette won out because millions of men had Gillettes after the war. They already had the razor and there were myriad razor blade manufacturers.

That being said, there is at least one adjustable SE safety razor known to exist that accepts modern SE blades. It was made by the Superman Safety Razor Co. I can't remember where I got these pics so if they are yours...I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due.
View attachment 152651

View attachment 152650

 

[jgkeegan]

I like them both. I have been using DEs for decades, SEs for less than a year, and alternating. DE for 3 shaves, SE for 4. I like the way each one feels on the first day of a switch. Lately, for no reasons I can express, I am leaning toward the SEs but I think that will shift back and forth.

--james

 

[drews50]

I believe Gillette won out because millions of men had Gillettes after the war. They already had the razor and there were myriad razor blade manufacturers.

That being said, there is at least one adjustable SE safety razor known to exist that accepts modern SE blades. It was made by the Superman Safety Razor Co. I can't remember where I got these pics so if they are yours...I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due.
View attachment 152651

View attachment 152650

Thanks for posting. I never heard of a SE adjustable or a Superman! I learn something new everyday!

 

[4hits]

... DE styling is better, nice gold and nickel plated razors with machined knurling.

Since you and I have been showing up in the same threads these last few weeks, I think you know where I stand.

I hear what you are saying about styling, but I think that "styling" symmetrically is easier than "styling" asymmetrically. Referring to vintage Gillette's only - 'cause that's what I know - they are indeed gorgeous. The handles can be especially artful, and even more so when coupled with the open comb.

But when you are looking at SE razors, and the positively medieval look of the earliest versions, through the 1920's, you are looking at the entire razor, especially the head, because that's where your attention is drawn. There are some beautiful handles out there in Gem-land attached to those heads.

I think the Micromatics, G-Bar's, and onward look just as artistic as anything Gillette put out during that same time.

Gillette created demand with all the iterations of its then-current generation product line. Smart businesses will do that. I don't think Gem ever did that.

Yet only recently did I finally figure out what was being advertised on those old outfield wall advertisements in Ebbets Field, at the Polo Grounds, and Yankee Stadium.

 

[4hits]

...So if we value the experience then I believe a DE wins out and does so on two fronts. First I find the added weight of the head compared to an SE to be an advantage in holding it against the beard as well as retaining heat. There is something about being a guy and having a razor with a nice balance and a bit of heft to it - it is somehow more masculine than a lightweight razor. To have the heat of a warmed razor against the cheek is a pleasant sensation any morning.

Secondly, the DE is audibly more pleasant. It would be easy to discount this but truly, any SE (and I have tried at least six) has a "raspy" sound to it as you shave, somewhat like 80 grit sandpaper. A DE razor (I have the TTO in mind), in contrast, muffles the beard as it is shorn simply due to the design of the head. It is quieter and somehow more reassuring to hear. It purrs as it works. The final nail in the coffin surely was the adjustable DE as I am not aware of an SE that was adjustable.

So that's my take on the matter, your thoughts?

Well, you asked.

I disagree with your heft vs masculine theory. Various Techs, the Red Tip, the Flare Tip, are all pretty light to me. And I like how they shave. I also like the heft of my 1921 New Improved (Richwood). Regardless, my masculine-level does not change with the weight of my razor. I think the fact that we all shave with these "ancient" tools makes us all masculine.

I also disagree with your audible theory, only because I love the sound of the blade at work. It's one of my favorite things about SE shaving, second to the incredible shave. Believing that shaving with an SE is how shaving with a Straight would sound, I get to at least "sound" like I am shaving with a straight. To me, that's shaving like a man.

Thirdly, all razors all adjustable. Just adjust your angle.

 

[DunEdinRanger]

Advertising won the Razor Wars.

Gillette reminded customers that they had two edges, and so their blades would last twice as long.

GEM had a TTO before Gillette ever did in the Micromatics, and their loading mechanism for previous models was simpler than the 3 piece razors.

Gillette out spent on advertising, and imho they had an inferior product.

As to the audible feedback? The feedback from an SE is like the full throated roar of a Double Barreled V8 454 Cubic Inch engine compared to the putt putt of a 1.5 Liter EFI in Line 4 econobox.

I'll take the Gem's feedback any day.

 

[Pjotr]

Tried both SE and DE.

DE won out.

Just like DE a bit better.

The only thing I had against SE was blade purchase and price.

SE blades are not available in many area stores and the cost was a lot higher compared to DE blades which I can get for pennies.

Still SE razors do look much nicer.

True, SE blades aren't as readily available, basically not at all where I live. But buying in bulk (particularly as in the SE group buy) makes them comparible if not cheaper than some DE blades.

 

[Viseguy]

I like the raspy sound of a SE. It reassures me that I'm doing it right. With a DE I feel I'm guessing.

Unless you use a noisy DE razor, like this little Gibbs. It's maybe not the prettiest to look at, but it sure feels good in my hand, and provides plenty of reassuring "raspy" feedback. I have a shiny Mühle R41 and the gorgeous EJ DE87, but they've been getting a lot of rest lately as I keep on going back to the Gibbs.

I've only had one SE shave so far, so it's early days for me, but it looks promising. I like light, noisy razors, and I loved the feel of the GEM SS blade. Headed for shave #2 with it tonight.

I think you're over glamorizing/romanticizing the experience of shaving decades ago. Gillette won out because millions of men got them during the war and that's what they were used to using, and Gillette simply out advertised the competition.

I believe Gillette won out because millions of men had Gillettes after the war. They already had the razor and there were myriad razor blade manufacturers. ...

Makes sense to me.

 

[4hits]

As to the audible feedback? The feedback from an SE is like the full throated roar of a Double Barreled V8 454 Cubic Inch engine compared to the putt putt of a 1.5 Liter EFI in Line 4 econobox.

I'll take the Gem's feedback any day.

Perfect.

 

[Pjotr]

Thanks for posting. I never heard of a SE adjustable or a Superman! I learn something new everyday!

I get the feeling that one of those will be part of your collection in the near future.

 

[Go West Young Man]

Before the rise of the internet shave nerd, no-one cared about the 'experience' of shaving. Gillette just muscled the competition out of the market, plain and simple.

 

[DunEdinRanger]

Before the rise of the internet shave nerd, no-one cared about the 'experience' of shaving. Gillette just muscled the competition out of the market, plain and simple.

I prefer the term "Wet Shaving Aficionado" Thank You Very Much!

 

[shavemeup]

I think you're over glamorizing/romanticizing the experience of shaving decades ago. Gillette won out because millions of men got them during the war and that's what they were used to using, and Gillette simply out advertised the competition.

+1 on that. It was the same thing with cigarettes.Supply them cheap to the military and you have a customer for "life".
On another note my dad was a "gem" guy. I still remember the bbs look he got with a gem. Then for some reason he went electric. He never looked as nice with an electric shave.