Why do some folks tape the spine when honing?
- Thread starter Eastcoast30
- Start date
For clarity.
Nani SuperStones don't crack, they warp.
Nani Chosera don't warp, they crack/craze.
Nani New Chosera (Pro) Also craze/crack. (allegedly, this is whey the Gouken Arata were made)
Note - not all of them, not every one of them; just enough of them for it to be an issue to know about.
I've had a bunch of Chosera Crack/Craze, 2 "Professional" craze badly, and a few Super Stones warp. One was 20mm thick.
Lots of people have similar stories. Even Jyunpaku stones have been splitting.
FWIW - long ago Shapton Pro stones went through the same thing, but they reformulated and you don't hear about it any more. You will, occasionally, find the 12/15k stone with a sealer on the edge though.
Glass Stones never had that issue.
Nani SuperStones don't crack, they warp.
Nani Chosera don't warp, they crack/craze.
Nani New Chosera (Pro) Also craze/crack. (allegedly, this is whey the Gouken Arata were made)
Note - not all of them, not every one of them; just enough of them for it to be an issue to know about.
I've had a bunch of Chosera Crack/Craze, 2 "Professional" craze badly, and a few Super Stones warp. One was 20mm thick.
Lots of people have similar stories. Even Jyunpaku stones have been splitting.
FWIW - long ago Shapton Pro stones went through the same thing, but they reformulated and you don't hear about it any more. You will, occasionally, find the 12/15k stone with a sealer on the edge though.
Glass Stones never had that issue.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
@Eastcoast30 re. post 39 Looks like an unmarked Gold Dollar 66 to me. I could be wrong, of course.
When you order from the factory, on request they will sell you unbranded and unmarked razors, or for a little extra they will etch your own markings on them. Resellers often have their own mark put on them, or none at all. So lack of branding marks is no conclusive proof that the razor is not a Gold Dollar. And since these are about $1.50 each from the factory FOB, there is little profit in counterfeiting them. They would be better off counterfeiting Dovo Best Quality. The counterfeits would probably be better than the real ones unless they were made in Pakistan.
Once your honing is up to the task, you could hone it and hone a known GD using the exact same method, and compare shaves and edge durability, and maybe compare spark patterns on your bench grinder, and that wouldn't prove it IS a Gold Dollar, but if it isn't then it might prove that it is not.
When you order from the factory, on request they will sell you unbranded and unmarked razors, or for a little extra they will etch your own markings on them. Resellers often have their own mark put on them, or none at all. So lack of branding marks is no conclusive proof that the razor is not a Gold Dollar. And since these are about $1.50 each from the factory FOB, there is little profit in counterfeiting them. They would be better off counterfeiting Dovo Best Quality. The counterfeits would probably be better than the real ones unless they were made in Pakistan.
Once your honing is up to the task, you could hone it and hone a known GD using the exact same method, and compare shaves and edge durability, and maybe compare spark patterns on your bench grinder, and that wouldn't prove it IS a Gold Dollar, but if it isn't then it might prove that it is not.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
@Eastcoast30 of course you could probably return it, since the listing showed a properly marked GD and you did not receive a properly marked GD. Oh and if it is made in China, I am not sure but I believe it needs to be marked "Made In China" somewhere on it.
- Thread starter
- #45
There are no markings for country of origin. I know you have stated that the GDs are made from good steel. Not knowing if this is a GD, it is not worth the $18. I have picked up two dubl ducks for cheap on eBay and they appear not to have been honed. Anyway, I don't see any excessibe hone wear when zooming in on the photos. I will use those for practice. And they have mint condition scales. Thanks for the prompt responses.
@Slash McCoy Should I tape the spine on a rattler/frame back? When honing? When using a pasted strop?
I'm no slash but that's your choice. If the razor has a brass frame I recommend it. If it's a standard rattler I wouldn't worry about it.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Just remember that your 20° to 22° on your knives is a bevel angle of 40° to 44° on a straight razor. The bevel angle on an SR is the face side angle plus the back side angle. SR's normally have a bevel angle of about 15° to 19°. That's like 7.5° to 9.5° on a knife.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Two Dubl Ducks, never honed? Those aren't exactly practice razors. I would set them aside for later. Depending on which model you have, they are either pretty nice razors or premium razors with a loyal following.
Let's work backwards. Don't tape the spine when using the pasted balsa. Don't use any other media with paste, except for balsa, and don't use any abrasive other than diamond and maybe CBN.
Now since you won't tape the spine for the balsa strop, obviously you won't want to tape when honing if you intend to use the balsa progression. The apex will not be in good contact with the balsa.
So your two alternative courses of action would seem to be tape when honing, and don't use any paste on any strop, or do not tape when honing and feel free to use the pasted balsa progression for the finish.
Which one you choose depends on the razor and to an extent, your preferences.
I am not familiar with that brand, and a true frameback of a certain age at least, should be honed with extreme care, because the spine will probably not be as hard as the blade. In some cases, nowhere near as hard as the blade. Faux framebacks, treat them as extra full hollows. Hone without tape unless the geometry of the razor dictates its use.
When I have a razor that truly needs to be honed with tape, I usually get rid of it. I am spoiled by the balsa and won't shave with a razor that has not seen the balsa.
That is my take on this. Feel free to disagree. It is your razor. But that is my thoughts on the subject.
- Thread starter
- #50
Thanks for that.
- Thread starter
- #51
At aliexpress you can get 10 #66 gold dollars for $41 and free shipping. It's not as cheap as Slash gets them, but he buys 100. If I mess up my dubl duck beaters, I'll get 10 gold dollars to keep practicing on.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
$41 for 10pcs, shipped, is still a pretty good price. Now is the time to get a bunch of them for the annual GD Mod Competition! It's not to be missed! And you need plenty of extras because you will destroy a few of them.
I have a rattler and I don’t, because the steel is the same throughout. Mine is a Reynolds and Sheffield steel, so it’s relatively softer and hones faster than Swedish, French, German, American, or Japanese steel in my experience. So if you’re bevel setting you don’t need to torque on pressure as hard as with others, for example.
real frame backs with differing metals, I look close at spine vs edge wear the first hone or two to see if I need to tape. my French one I don’t need to, my Japanese I do. Brass or other metal spine tubes “glued/braised/welded” to the blade? Absolutely.
and I see Slash spoke on it too While I was typing. I agree with him as well.
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Be careful with the floor tile. These might not be as flat as you think. I started with one of these but after checking it switched to a 10m thick piece of glass late that was sold for the purpose. This is distinct from float glass which is also not necessarily very flat and tends to have slight waves in the surface. When using glass plate of this thickness it is important to support the whole surface to eliminate flexing. A piece of non-slip rug underlay is useful to put under the glass. I have stopped gluing the sheets to the glass. They stick pretty well with a misting of water on the glass and are easier are much faster to replace. Just press them down good. You can check the back for air bubbles.
Plate glass is ok if you can find it. It's durable, it's flat, it packs into a filing folder and it's pretty cheap. A certified surface plate would be the gold standard but they are bulky and expensive. A piece of thick acrylic cut to the size of a standard sandpaper sheet would be a very good bet too.
You can get a fairly good measure of flatness by using a long builders straight edge. The straight edge should not rock on the surface, you should not be able to see light shining under it, you should not be able to slide a 0.05mm brass shim or piece of foil under the straight edge. If your floor tile fails any of these tests it may be wise to look for a replacement. A certified granite surface plate is as close to perfect and you can get. It probably overkill but I would still like to get one.
- Thread starter
- #55
UI have several pieces of polished tile. I plan on checking them with a Mititoyo straight edge. If they fail, I will look for something else.
Shipped in the Merchant Marine for 8 years and now a ferry captain
I've been shaving off a Naniwa 12k, finished on a CrOx pasted strop (hanging) once after honing for years. Produces a buttery smooth edge that will not disappoint. I haven't owned a 10k, but from all the reviews here it seems a superfluous and unnecessary step in the process. Save your money and go with the 12k! Happy honing!
I've been shaving off a Naniwa 12k, finished on a CrOx pasted strop (hanging) once after honing for years. Produces a buttery smooth edge that will not disappoint. I haven't owned a 10k, but from all the reviews here it seems a superfluous and unnecessary step in the process. Save your money and go with the 12k! Happy honing!
- Thread starter
- #57
I had not thought about finishing with a pasted strop. I have an old Russian strop that has a bit of CrOx on it, which I use for my knife. So I would just strop for a few laps (30 or so) and that's it until the next time I hone?
I love my pasted strops.
I would advise starting with 5-6 laps , you can always add more. I've only used CrOx once on a razor as an experiment, but it was surprisingly effective IME.
- Thread starter
- #60
This thread has made a few left and right turns along the way. But don't stop - it makes for a lot of learning.
