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Hey Brooksie967, could you like teach me? I hear you're the flavour of the month on the homing er honing forum.
Thoughts on this natural
- Thread starter BakerAndBadger
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The seller didn't know anything about these hones beside the fact, that they were purchased from an old barber who sharpened his razors with them.
In fact my hone looks exactly like some LI's I have:
But raising a slurry you see some differences. Whereas the slurry of the LI's is typical white, the slurry of this specific hone is more yellowish. I have to make some honing test to compare the hones. At the end of the day the honing perfomrance is all that counts.
Also Pauls example could be different. Looking at your pictures and seeing these "sparse blue dots" reminds me of a hone we have discussed years ago. It is a ghost hone because it appears in the old sharpening stone literature (i.e. Holzapfel) but nobody really had a proved example of those, because they were not labelled and haven't survived the 20th century. I speek of the mysterious Cutlers green hone.
I once bought an example from one of the most experienced and knowledgeable honers and he supposed this to be an example of this mystic hones. But there will never be a proof and I personally think this is simply a kind of a very fine LI. Anyway it's a great hone.
In fact my hone looks exactly like some LI's I have:
But raising a slurry you see some differences. Whereas the slurry of the LI's is typical white, the slurry of this specific hone is more yellowish. I have to make some honing test to compare the hones. At the end of the day the honing perfomrance is all that counts.
Also Pauls example could be different. Looking at your pictures and seeing these "sparse blue dots" reminds me of a hone we have discussed years ago. It is a ghost hone because it appears in the old sharpening stone literature (i.e. Holzapfel) but nobody really had a proved example of those, because they were not labelled and haven't survived the 20th century. I speek of the mysterious Cutlers green hone.
I once bought an example from one of the most experienced and knowledgeable honers and he supposed this to be an example of this mystic hones. But there will never be a proof and I personally think this is simply a kind of a very fine LI. Anyway it's a great hone.
Dont know if this adds any useful to what Peter already posted....
These are all LI Stones in my thinking....slurry raises the same and looks milky. Its well visible that there are certain variations in color (darker green, olive green, lighter green/grey) and also there is a difference in the pattern...
Typical flaking for LI stones:
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Concerning the Cuttlers green i did research this week because of another thread in another forum....
The Cutlers Green is always named in line with the Region of Snowdon/Snowdonia....a region the Lynn Idwall (LI) stones have also their origin...when the older literature is right, we talk about two different types of stones.
Literature:
Robert Hunt, 1859
Districtive Guide with Notices of the geological survey of the United Kingdom, survey of the Government School Of mines
"The Welsh oilstone is almost in equal repute with the Charnley Forest stone; it is obtained from the vicinity of Llyn Idwall, near Snowdon, and hence it is sometimes called Idwall stone. From Snowdon is also obtained the cutler's green stone."
The second well known source is from Richard Knight, Appendix V, Page 231
Hone Stones & C. from Transactions from the society of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce Vol. L. Part II, 1836
"Cutlers Green Hone is of so hard and close nature, that it is only applicable to the purposes of cutlers and instrument makers, for giving the last edge to the lancet, and other delicate surgical instruments. It has hithereto been only found in the Snowdon mountains of north wales."
@hatzicho: iam well interested what youll experience doing a test to compare the stones!!
These are all LI Stones in my thinking....slurry raises the same and looks milky. Its well visible that there are certain variations in color (darker green, olive green, lighter green/grey) and also there is a difference in the pattern...
Typical flaking for LI stones:
---------------------------
Concerning the Cuttlers green i did research this week because of another thread in another forum....
The Cutlers Green is always named in line with the Region of Snowdon/Snowdonia....a region the Lynn Idwall (LI) stones have also their origin...when the older literature is right, we talk about two different types of stones.
Literature:
Robert Hunt, 1859
Districtive Guide with Notices of the geological survey of the United Kingdom, survey of the Government School Of mines
"The Welsh oilstone is almost in equal repute with the Charnley Forest stone; it is obtained from the vicinity of Llyn Idwall, near Snowdon, and hence it is sometimes called Idwall stone. From Snowdon is also obtained the cutler's green stone."
The second well known source is from Richard Knight, Appendix V, Page 231
Hone Stones & C. from Transactions from the society of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce Vol. L. Part II, 1836
"Cutlers Green Hone is of so hard and close nature, that it is only applicable to the purposes of cutlers and instrument makers, for giving the last edge to the lancet, and other delicate surgical instruments. It has hithereto been only found in the Snowdon mountains of north wales."
@hatzicho: iam well interested what youll experience doing a test to compare the stones!!
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Yeah, I've got a stone I call a CG based on matching the "hard and close" description as well as having been labeled as such by a 1960 barber whose bag I received it in. I had a larger version of the stone some years ago and sold it because it's very mediocre as a razor hone. Very much like a WOA in function. I kept this one as a collection piece. It's somewhere between marble and slate with a green, striped pattern. Would make a good fishhook stone or similar, probably.
I think I know what ya'll got. It's an oilstone that was marketed as "Weloh Razor Hone".
"This Natural stone is selected with great care and is superior to any composition ever used in honing, imparting a fine and delicate edge to razors, pen knives, and surgical instruments. Also farmers and mechanics will find this a very valuable stone for setting and sharpening of all kinds of tools; it will last a life time and always gives perfect satisfaction. Use a little sweet or machine oil."
"This Natural stone is selected with great care and is superior to any composition ever used in honing, imparting a fine and delicate edge to razors, pen knives, and surgical instruments. Also farmers and mechanics will find this a very valuable stone for setting and sharpening of all kinds of tools; it will last a life time and always gives perfect satisfaction. Use a little sweet or machine oil."
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I love how almost every single old natural hone is the "best ever," superior to every other according to their makers, lol.
Yep. This stone proved that 80% sure still leaves 20% don't have a freaking clue. Turns out it wasn't a coticule with a wood grain... it was just wood. Walnut to be specific... with a "Weloh Razor hone" glued to it.
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Now THAT right there is funny!
Looks like the "Vosges" Stone i have....whAzz a Whelo Razor Hone Ian ?
Ahh ok got it Ian, missed the post before ;-)
Can you post a picture of that packaging or instructions Ian ?
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Sure thing. Good luck making much out though, I can barely read it myself; took about ten minutes to translate the text.
I could see it being a pale vosges, perhaps. The colors are about right, the sparkles are there, it's nowhere near as dark as any vosges I've seen, but oil could explain darkening of the stones a bit. The pattern is different from most I've seen, but not too out there. I'll know a bit more after I get a chance to use it, I hope.
I could see it being a pale vosges, perhaps. The colors are about right, the sparkles are there, it's nowhere near as dark as any vosges I've seen, but oil could explain darkening of the stones a bit. The pattern is different from most I've seen, but not too out there. I'll know a bit more after I get a chance to use it, I hope.
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I've cleaned the box a little. It is in fact "Welch Razor hone". It's from Syracuse Oil stone co.
It's not a vosgiennes. It's not a razor finisher at all. Not by today's standards. Honestly in use it's almost identical to a Lily White washita. If I put this rock and a LWW under a razor with a blindfold on, I couldn't tell them apart. It's extremely fast, but not fine enough to shave off comfortably.
It's not a vosgiennes. It's not a razor finisher at all. Not by today's standards. Honestly in use it's almost identical to a Lily White washita. If I put this rock and a LWW under a razor with a blindfold on, I couldn't tell them apart. It's extremely fast, but not fine enough to shave off comfortably.
So it's a grapestone.
They blew the description a smidge, eh?
Purple stuff? Where's the Sunny D hone.
Yeah, they were stretching it in the first part of the description. The stuff about being useful for farmers and mechanics to set edges and leave a pretty sharp edge sounds more accurate. It pulls steel really fast and leaves a pretty reasonable edge given that. Really is a great sub for a LWW... but shaving off it? Only if you're a masochist. The thing is, given that it's so thin, if it wears as fast as a LWW, it's pretty much a joke. If however it can cut like this and still be resistant to dishing, that's something that'd interest me. It's set aside for testing later... who knows, maybe it'll be a useful stone for beveling or progressing a razor edge.
Yeah, they were stretching it in the first part of the description. The stuff about being useful for farmers and mechanics to set edges and leave a pretty sharp edge sounds more accurate. It pulls steel really fast and leaves a pretty reasonable edge given that. Really is a great sub for a LWW... but shaving off it? Only if you're a masochist. The thing is, given that it's so thin, if it wears as fast as a LWW, it's pretty much a joke. If however it can cut like this and still be resistant to dishing, that's something that'd interest me. It's set aside for testing later... who knows, maybe it'll be a useful stone for beveling or progressing a razor edge.
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Bumping this because I bought another "Welch Razor Hone" on eBay. similar looking paddle, except this one has a handle, similar label (but different text), and much clearer this time.
"JOS. Louden's Super Fine Welch Razor Hone."
"For honing and setting a fine and delicate edge to razors, penknives and surgical instruments. N. B. --Lay your razor flat upon the hone and draw it in a reverse position to what you would on a strop; that is, cause the back to follow the edge whien propelling it from heel to point. Use Sweet Oil. Made and warranted by the Proprietor and sold by his appointed Agent, David Pike, No 12 Gold St. N. Y."
It cuts a TON finer than the last one I had. Is darker, less obvious patterning, and acts a LOT like my Water of Ayr stone. Has very distinct sawmarks on the side that are slightly like the La Lune sawmarks... though far shallower. Also this one has a leather strop on the back of the paddle.
Edge under the scope looks like it'll be a good shaving edge... scratch pattern is very fine and edge appears pretty undamaged. Will report after I get a shave test on it.
Same rock, but they varied and were graded as such... maybe not unlike Turkey stones... which go from bevelers to (very rare) razor finishers? Not sure. Isn't the same manufacturer, but the name and appearance make me suspect it is related.
Debating trying to soak the stone and see if the color changes or more patterning appears.
"JOS. Louden's Super Fine Welch Razor Hone."
"For honing and setting a fine and delicate edge to razors, penknives and surgical instruments. N. B. --Lay your razor flat upon the hone and draw it in a reverse position to what you would on a strop; that is, cause the back to follow the edge whien propelling it from heel to point. Use Sweet Oil. Made and warranted by the Proprietor and sold by his appointed Agent, David Pike, No 12 Gold St. N. Y."
It cuts a TON finer than the last one I had. Is darker, less obvious patterning, and acts a LOT like my Water of Ayr stone. Has very distinct sawmarks on the side that are slightly like the La Lune sawmarks... though far shallower. Also this one has a leather strop on the back of the paddle.
Edge under the scope looks like it'll be a good shaving edge... scratch pattern is very fine and edge appears pretty undamaged. Will report after I get a shave test on it.
Same rock, but they varied and were graded as such... maybe not unlike Turkey stones... which go from bevelers to (very rare) razor finishers? Not sure. Isn't the same manufacturer, but the name and appearance make me suspect it is related.
Debating trying to soak the stone and see if the color changes or more patterning appears.
Shave was definitely acceptable. Not untra-close, but no irritation and seemed similar resistant to cutting skin as a coticule. Honestly, reminded me a lot of a WOA shave, too.
