In praise of the basics

[captaincaed]

I got a bug up my *** over the past couple days and just had to figure out “does this stone in the progression actually produce a better edge?”. I took my time, listened to feedback on the stone, and the strop. I kept my strokes consistent, relatively short, and relatively light, using the flatest parts of the stones.

The tl;dr is - the Fuji 8k is a fantastic stone, probably better than most of my naturals, coti edges may not be super sharp, and a strop is essential (all are ‘duhs’ right?). Even though I have a Kanayama, the Heirloom strop is still pretty great. The basics are basics for a reason, right?

I went through a couple razors on my standard lineup of stones. I finally got some hair extensions for a standard test. And for some dumb reason I thought it would be fun to dry-shave part of my face and neck after each and every stone.

I took a shaving edge back to 3k, then 5k, 8k, coticule, with in-between 3 strokes on a chromox denim strop to clean up any burr, then cotton, then plain leather. I did some HHT between all the steps, just to see what happens.

So, here’s what I learned:

Each stone produces an HHT 3, except the 5k, which was ~HHT 1. It’s like the old coticule.be site talking about how you can have a mid-grit drop in HHT as you move between a ‘toothy’ stone and a ‘keen’ stone.
- no stone got to HHT fresh from the stones
- the chromox strop did basically nothing for HHT
- cotton and leather seem to ‘reveal’ the edge after the stones
- shaving off the 3k was rough and left stubble - my face still hurts. The HHT 3 was not an indication of shaving potential.
- the 5k edge was better than 3k, closer and smoother, despite a poorer HHT
- the Fuji 8k edge clearly went from a ‘popping’ edge to a ‘slicing’ edge, even with the same HHT as the 3k. The cutting action is just different
- the coti took the 8k edge backward, although still an HHT 3 - still better than 5k, but more popping and less slicing than the Fuji 8k. I did this with light pressure and short strokes on a water/glycerin mix, no slurry. I’ll keep trying this stone, and take the edge to a firehose strop since I hear that can smooth up a coti edge.

Overall, I’m kind of blow away how good the Fuji 8k is, how easy to use. I’ve also gained some confidence that I’m actually doing what I think I’m doing, with each stone. Putting in the time to test between stones both with an HHT and on my face, the data points basically line up. I’m a little disappointed the coti doesn’t improve the 8k edge, but I’ll see if I can eke a bit more out. Or use it as a paperweight. So Tim can buy it for $1.

 

[Christian1212]

I would skip the stropping between each of the stones to see how it compares. Could make things even more simple!

For the coticule make sure it is lapped completely flat. After that run another coticule on it to smooth it out a bit (or the 5k syntheticif no other coticule). Then after the 8k use oil and do only finishing x strokes ( on the coticule ).

If the coticule ends up not being a good finisher maybe it will be a good touch up stone before the finisher. With that cool magnese you also would be able to easily sell that thing.

 

[JPO]

I would skip the pasted strop. I would also try moving to the coticule after 5k with just a small amount of slurry, and dilute to clear water. In my opinion, the slurry, if used right, adds something to the edge. I don't like my coticule edges if use it like you describe.
Finding the right pressure on the coticule also made a difference to me. I always finish with really light pressure. However, some of my coticules needs more pressure to cut. This will be stone dependent.

 

[Wid]

Your coticule should be giving a better edge than you describe. I'd go to the coti right after the 3K making sure the bevel has been nailed first. Make a medium heavy slurry and use the diluticot method. Take you time on the dilutions, once on water do 30 x stroke then check hht. If not ready do another 30 and repeat. You should be able to get good hht right off the stone.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

Good advice above.

A Coticule on water, contrary to what some people think, is slow, sometimes VERY slow. Only come to a Coticule on plain water with your maxed out keenness already reached. The Coticule on water is a fine polisher. Don't expect it to do much of anything else, you bring your best edge to a Coticule on water alone purely to finish it. If you don't have your keenness maxed out, you need to drop back in your progression, in a Dilucot that means going back to light slurry.

Coticules need some pressure, what Bart always said, about the amount of a pencil eraser and after that you can go to something between pencil erasers and weight of the blade. If you want after that you can try weight of the blade only to see if that brings the edge even further.
100 laps on a Coticule on plain water for finishing is not uncommon.

My Coticule stones give me HHT 4 straight off the stone, if you don't get a good HHT off the stone directly, you're not there yet and the shave will not be good. You must get a good HHT results coming straight off your Coticule without any stropping.

The consensus was that a good linen strop will improve a Coticule edge even further. But the linen won't do much if your Coticule edge isn't nearly maxed out already. Stropping will not aid an edge that's not good off of the hones.
Unless you like pastes and such, but I never do, many have done so nowadays and in the past with good results. That's fine, too.
But if you wanna learn to max out the stones, you should not use pastes and try to really get everything out of your stones.

 

[captaincaed]

It seems like there's a lot of attention on the final coticule edge, and some different approaches to improving it. It's freshly flattened, but could likely use some surface smoothing.

I think overall the exercise, for me, was to see what each stone contributes to the overall process, both in terms of HHT and face feel. Each stone got many laps, until tactile and swarf feedback said "this stone has given all it has to give. At least 50 steady laps. I was very happy with the 8k edge. It was close and comfortable, even with a dry beard.

I rarely strop between stones normally, it was intended to show the best possible contribution from each stone.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

So, first remember that for hundreds of years, folks were honing and shaving on 2 stones, a course and fine finisher and likely shaving very well.

You are looking under the right rocks. Try perfecting each stone in your progression. EG, set a bevel, fully set a bevel, look at the edge, straight down on the edge.

Now joint off the edge and do a set of lite circles to cut down the 1k stria then do a series of lite X laps to remove all the circular stria and just bring the bevels back to meeting with shallower 1k stria, maxing out the 1k, may take a few laps. The goal is to refine the bevels to refine the edge.

Stropping between stones will straighten the edge for the next round of edge refinement with the next stone, 3k. The bevel and edge will lay flatter on the stone, yea, microns flatter but flatter. Remove all the remaining 1k stria, joint the edge again and do lite X laps to re set the edge. Joint and strop.

Remove the 3k with 8k and repeat jointing, stropping. In short max out each stone, squeak out max performance from each stone. The Fuji has a lot of range and you are scratching it’s full potential.

Flax linen is a game changer, the Chrome Ox strop is optional, I keep one at my bench, but mostly use firehose flax linen between stones, well washed. Tony Miller has an excellent flax linen, that he was selling separately, and not expensive, can be use in place of firehose.

As you have found, hair test must be calibrated. I’m not saying this is how you should hone, but better understanding the limits and potential of each of your stones will make you a better honer.

Lastly understand that each razor may hone a little different, be a little harder or softer, require gymnastics or prefer particular stones over others. That’s when you call an audible and all this experimentation pays off.

Keep swinging.



Here are a couple of edge micrographs, by Tim Zowada, one of his Timahagane razors, (64HRC). edge off a Shinden Asagi and stropped 40 laps with clean flax linen.

This is the initial edge. The honing bevel is about 25µ wide.

This the same edge after 40 laps on a fairly smooth Flax Linen strop. The spots are silica inclusions in the steel. They made very handy reference points for lining things up. They were also a great reference to measure edge wear, after many tests.

A chin whisker, for scale reference. It is a little wider than the frame of the photo.