How do you steep shavers get a smooth & satisfying shave?

[LRod]

I've been pondering this lately and would like to understand!
This is what I mean:
Most razor heads are designed to give an optimal shave at the standard 30 degrees or some even more shallow than that.
Every razor I've tried & owned (a lot of them), I've tried using a steep angle since I test multiple angles with a new razor. None of them have given a good shave while shaving steep, zero!
They're just rough!
And my logic tells me that it makes sense because at a steep angle the blade is sitting more perpendicular to the face which means it's working like a scraper. Shallow puts the blade parallel which would make it glide smoothly as it cuts.
Note: Some razors won't even engage at steep angles!
I read about many of you here that prefer shaving steep and I don't get it based on the inherent design of a razor head & blade!
Help me understand!

 

[rudygu]

I wonder about this a lot too. Even with razors that are very effective at steep angles like the Vector I always have more irritation. YMMV and all that, but I’m not sure how it’s ever more comfortable.

 

[Coler]

I don't think about the angle I shave at. I just find the cutting edge and pull softly.

Finding the right line across your face for each stroke, learning how to move your face or stretch your skin, locking your wrist with a light touch is as important, I think.

Works for me with various vintage (aristocrat, fatboy, slim, tech), ASD2, R41, Rex ambassador and a few more.

Same principle with a straight. Albeit you're pushing there.

I think we can trust instinct when it comes to using sharpened edges to cut stuff, including when shaving.

Find the cutting edge. Let the blade do the work.

 

[LRod]

I don't think about the angle I shave at. I just find the cutting edge and pull softly.

I don't either but when I do look at where the handle is, it's usually 30+ degrees. And if I move down (steep), it's rough. Like I mentioned, I test various angles on every new razor. And I do it because I'll usually post a review of how that particular razor works. And none have ever felt smooth while using a steep angle.

 

[Frito Ray]

Have you tried a Fatip slant? This was the first razor I ran into that necessitated a steep angle. Using a shallow angle with it felt like it took off the top layer of skin along with the beard. I just let the razor tell me what angle it wants.

 

[Coler]

I don't either but when I do look at where the handle is, it's usually 30+ degrees. And if I move down (steep), it's rough. Like I mentioned, I test various angles on every new razor. And I do it because I'll usually post a review of how that particular razor works. And none have ever felt smooth while using a steep angle.

For me the angle will also vary based on where on the face I am shaving, and whether it is WTG, ATG, XTG. The contours of my face influence how I hold the razor and how I present the blade.

 

[LRod]

Have you tried a Fatip slant? This was the first razor I ran into that necessitated a steep angle. Using a shallow angle with it felt like it took off the top layer of skin along with the beard. I just let the razor tell me what angle it wants.

Yes, I've got a few Fatip's: Gentile, Lo Storto, Lo Storto slant & Ibrido.
None have felt good steep!

 

[LRod]

For me the angle will also vary based on where on the face I am shaving, and whether it is WTG, ATG, XTG. The contours of my face influence how I hold the razor and how I present the blade.

Interesting!
My angle is usually the same anywhere in my face and will get the same result throughout.
I don't do ATG though so maybe that's a factor I haven't considered.

 

[BradWorld]

I shave on the steep side all the time. With an open comb, I start out so steep that I get rake marks in the lather., then pull it back just enough so the rake marks go away. Same with a SB. I shave as steep as I can without thinking about it. At this point I just know what angles work for me. Wolfman, Charcoal Goods, Blacklands. All shave better for me super steep. Aggressive vintages like the New Standard, adjustables on 9… all work better steep. Mild razors not as much.

 

[LRod]

I shave on the steep side all the time. With an open comb, I start out so steep that I get rake marks in the lather., then pull it back just enough so the rake marks go away. Same with a SB. I shave as steep as I can without thinking about it. At this point I just know what angles work for me. Wolfman, Charcoal Goods, Blacklands. All shave better for me super steep. Aggressive vintages like the New Standard, adjustables on 9… all work better steep. Mild razors not as much.

Man if I'd do that, I would just be scraping my face.
I guess they're really isn't a definitive answer and in the end it's just the usual YMMV!
3 years into it and I still find it strange how it all works!

 

[Phoenixkh]

I didn't realize this until I'd been around here for well over a year, I don't think... I'm an agnostic blade angle shaver.... I owe that to the Athena.... That razor taught me how to speak the razor language, if you will.... Because the auditory feedback is loud and has a unique timbre, to me, at least.... I found the sweet spot by listening, in addition to face feel..

Now... I usually still start steep, meaning, keep the handle parallel to my face and lift it until the razor engages, then make adjustments until I feel and hear the sweet spot.... With a few razors like the La Faulx, I am now starting shallow, with the cap on my face and lifting the handle until the blade engages..... I don't spend a lot of time while shaving paying attention to the angle where I end up. I only take the time to notice that angle if I'm trying to report back to someone who is interested.

I think there are many different approaches to this hobby of ours... or it's "just shaving" as some are fond of reminding us..... Still, since razor designers' creations vary, I'd rather try to discover each razor on its own.... not force it to fit into my adopted shaving style, if that makes sense. It seems sort of limiting to me if I try to only shave at a steep angle or a shallow one. As long as I'm getting my desired relaxing, smooth... comfortable yet close shaves, I'm pretty happy. If not, the razor doesn't seem to hang around long unless it has intrinsic personal value.... I have had a couple where I could never find the sweet spot... past tense. <eg>

 

[LRod]

I didn't realize this until I'd been around here for well over a year, I don't think... I'm an agnostic blade angle shaver.... I owe that to the Athena.... That razor taught me how to speak the razor language, if you will.... Because the auditory feedback is loud and has a unique timbre, to me, at least.... I found the sweet spot by listening, in addition to face feel..

Now... I usually still start steep, meaning, keep the handle parallel to my face and lift it until the razor engages, then make adjustments until I feel and hear the sweet spot.... With a few razors like the La Faulx, I am now starting shallow, with the cap on my face and lifting the handle until the blade engages..... I don't spend a lot of time while shaving paying attention to the angle where I end up. I only take the time to notice that angle if I'm trying to report back to someone who is interested.

I think there are many different approaches to this hobby of ours... or it's "just shaving" as some are fond of reminding us..... Still, since razor designers' creations vary, I'd rather try to discover each razor on its own.... not force it to fit into my adopted shaving style, if that makes sense. It seems sort of limiting to me if I try to only shave at a steep angle or a shallow one. As long as I'm getting my desired relaxing, smooth... comfortable yet close shaves, I'm pretty happy. If not, the razor doesn't seem to hang around long unless it has intrinsic personal value.... I have had a couple where I could never find the sweet spot... past tense. <eg>

Your experience (on how you do it) seems to mirror mine.
I'm just wondering how a particular razor that will scrape me at a steep angle can be smooth on someone else's face at said angle?
I don't think I'll every figure it out and just accept it as it is!

 

[JoWolf]

I've been pondering this lately and would like to understand!
This is what I mean:
Most razor heads are designed to give an optimal shave at the standard 30 degrees or some even more shallow than that.
Every razor I've tried & owned (a lot of them), I've tried using a steep angle since I test multiple angles with a new razor. None of them have given a good shave while shaving steep, zero!
They're just rough!
And my logic tells me that it makes sense because at a steep angle the blade is sitting more perpendicular to the face which means it's working like a scraper. Shallow puts the blade parallel which would make it glide smoothly as it cuts.
Note: Some razors won't even engage at steep angles!
I read about many of you here that prefer shaving steep and I don't get it based on the inherent design of a razor head & blade!
Help me understand!

They're just rough!

All sharp blades feel rough. Lighten up your touch and all sharp blades will become very smooth and very efficient. Everyone can lighten up their touch if they try. Steep angle shaving with a light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort.

 

[LRod]

All sharp blades feel rough. Lighten up your touch and all sharp blades will become very smooth and very efficient. Everyone can lighten up their touch if they try. Steep angle shaving with a light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort.

I don't totally agree with this. I use super sharp blades (different ones) and none feel rough to me at all unless it's just a blade that's known to be rough and/or a dud. And my touch is as light as it gets. I'm not new to this and have been through countless razors and blades.
And "light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort", really?
Where did you come up with that conclusion?
That sounds to me like something that personally works for you.
I've used sharp & not sharp blades on tons of razors (with the lightest touch) and they've all yielded rough shaves.

 

[JCinPA]

All of this is YMMV stuff, no exceptions.

But generally speaking having the blade present more parallel to the face is generally more efficient and more comfortable. Having it at a steeper angle is, again, generally less efficient and less comfortable. And, again generally speaking, less pressure is more comfortable than more pressure.

But the razor can change how the blade presents depending on how the head clamps it. And as has been said, I don't overthink it, I just shave. Eventually, I naturally fall into the best way for me with that razor/blade combination. People who look for universal conclusions about do it this way, not that way are usually disappointed. This activity does not work that way.

Now, when I started with the Merkur 34C, after using a DE89 for a couple years, I fell into the best shave in a few days. When I started with the Henson AL13++ I think it took me about two weeks of consecutive daily shaves to figure it out, but then was getting comfortable BBS all the time.

I just started using a Yaqi Ghost .70 and it took me 3-4 shaves but this morning I got a very comfortable BBS on the third shave with a Nacet. I think I have it figured out and can now keep that up.

My advice is if you are having trouble dialing a razor in, stop any rotation, and shave with it for as long as it takes, and without a lot of thought (some, but don't get analysis paralysis) you'll find you will be shaving with it like a pro eventually. Let it happen.

This is why I don't rotate razors a lot. I stick with one exclusively for a while, and when I want a change and grab a different razor, I usually use it for a couple weeks. I don't get the attraction of changing razors every day, not my thing.

 

[Remy]

There's also the variable of your skin tension. The guard is applying some pressure to your skin, changing the presentation angle. Combined with different exposures and it really gets razor specific.

I'm with the group that basically adjusts by feel/sound. I primarily use one DE and one AC razor and if I grab one of the others it takes a little adjusting that can be anywhere from a few strokes to a few shaves.

 

[LRod]

I don't totally agree with this. I use super sharp blades (different ones) and none feel rough to me at all unless it's just a blade that's known to be rough and/or a dud. And my touch is as light as it gets. I'm not new to this and have been through countless razors and blades.
And "light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort", really?
Where did you come up with that conclusion?
That sounds to me like something that personally works for you.
I've used sharp & not sharp blades on tons of razors (with the lightest touch) and they've all yielded rough shaves.

Edit on my last sentence:
What I described was based on shaving steep!

 

[Brutus]

I've been pondering this lately and would like to understand!
This is what I mean:
Most razor heads are designed to give an optimal shave at the standard 30 degrees or some even more shallow than that.
Every razor I've tried & owned (a lot of them), I've tried using a steep angle since I test multiple angles with a new razor. None of them have given a good shave while shaving steep, zero!
They're just rough!
And my logic tells me that it makes sense because at a steep angle the blade is sitting more perpendicular to the face which means it's working like a scraper. Shallow puts the blade parallel which would make it glide smoothly as it cuts.
Note: Some razors won't even engage at steep angles!
I read about many of you here that prefer shaving steep and I don't get it based on the inherent design of a razor head & blade!
Help me understand!

Yes, I too have been thinking about the concept behind steep shaving (but not to the extent that someone here should feel obliged to explain it to me ) and to me it makes little sense.

You see, I am also a straight shaver and for me the rule is:
- shallow angle = shave
- steep angle = scrape

And I don’t do “scrape”.



As I said, please don’t bother to try to convince me of the error of my ways.

I am past 71 and hence I fall into the “no new tricks” category of and, to be honest, I like the way I shaved for the last few decades.
Close, efficient, smooth and shallow.

Call me a shallow guy, if you must…


B.

 

[JoWolf]

I don't totally agree with this. I use super sharp blades (different ones) and none feel rough to me at all unless it's just a blade that's known to be rough and/or a dud. And my touch is as light as it gets. I'm not new to this and have been through countless razors and blades.
And "light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort", really?
Where did you come up with that conclusion?
That sounds to me like something that personally works for you.
I've used sharp & not sharp blades on tons of razors (with the lightest touch) and they've all yielded rough shaves.

I don't totally agree with this. I use super sharp blades (different ones) and none feel rough to me at all unless it's just a blade that's known to be rough and/or a dud.

In my early introduction to DE shaving I had to try Feathers and Nacets with their reputations as sharp blades. They both felt very rough and jagged to me. As I refined my technique and lightened my touch. For me that took three years and I was also still learning how to take better care of my skin. I was campaigning blades as many do in the beginning but going to single use blades changed many aspects of my shave. I’m a weekly face and head shaver. Single using a blade was the best results in efficiency and comfort for my weekly shaves. I would also comment that it took me well over three years to refine my pre and post shave routines to prep my skin for a close shave, and nourish it to keep it healthy.

And my touch is as light as it gets

I had exclusively used a Fatip Grande with single use Feathers for over three years. I didn’t think my touch could get any lighter. Not too long ago I switched razors and now use an OC95 Lupo exclusively. My first half dozen shaves returned memories of my way too early efforts with sharp blades. I did indeed lighten up my touch in order to get back to smooth, comfortable efficient shaves. Everyone can lighten up their touch especially if you are using more efficient razors with sharpest blades. The other side of that would be to use well campaigned blades which are duller and allow more pressure used in your strokes.

LRod many shavers delight in changing their kits, blades, and software for variety and pleasure. Exploring and enjoying the many options open to their shave kits. The fundamentals of shaving do apply for all shaves. If changes are made frequently it is difficult for muscle memory and technique to sometimes make the adjustments with limited practice to a new or changed shave kit.

I'm not new to this and have been through countless razors and blades.

Trying and using a variety of hardware and software in our shaves can be fun, interesting and help us find our favourite set-up’s.

And "light touch is the most efficient in stroke count and comfort", really?

My continued practice with a locked four shave kit has brought my shaves to a very high efficiency and comfort. Always repeating the same process with the same equipment will always yield best results. Changing one element will effect the process and adjustments and changes are then required. The more changes the more adjustments are required.

I've used sharp & not sharp blades on tons of razors (with the lightest touch) and they've all yielded rough shaves.

After a few years of DE shaving I went to single use blades. Using sharpest blades for every shave improved all aspects of my shave. At this point in my life I wouldn’t consider using a dull blade in the kitchen and most definitely not on my sensitive skin shaving.

LRod when I transitioned to DE from a half a century of mediocre and painful shaves. I was determined to find comfort and enjoyment in my shaves. Using the excellent community of B&B it has nurtured and taught me to pay close attention to the basic fundamentals of a wet shave. Of course we are all different in our whisker growth, skin condition, shaving intervals and preferred shave kits. Finding and repeating the best combination to suit our comfort and enjoyment is a journey.

 

[LRod]

In my early introduction to DE shaving I had to try Feathers and Nacets with their reputations as sharp blades. They both felt very rough and jagged to me. As I refined my technique and lightened my touch. For me that took three years and I was also still learning how to take better care of my skin. I was campaigning blades as many do in the beginning but going to single use blades changed many aspects of my shave. I’m a weekly face and head shaver. Single using a blade was the best results in efficiency and comfort for my weekly shaves. I would also comment that it took me well over three years to refine my pre and post shave routines to prep my skin for a close shave, and nourish it to keep it healthy.

I had exclusively used a Fatip Grande with single use Feathers for over three years. I didn’t think my touch could get any lighter. Not too long ago I switched razors and now use an OC95 Lupo exclusively. My first half dozen shaves returned memories of my way too early efforts with sharp blades. I did indeed lighten up my touch in order to get back to smooth, comfortable efficient shaves. Everyone can lighten up their touch especially if you are using more efficient razors with sharpest blades. The other side of that would be to use well campaigned blades which are duller and allow more pressure used in your strokes.

LRod many shavers delight in changing their kits, blades, and software for variety and pleasure. Exploring and enjoying the many options open to their shave kits. The fundamentals of shaving do apply for all shaves. If changes are made frequently it is difficult for muscle memory and technique to sometimes make the adjustments with limited practice to a new or changed shave kit.

Trying and using a variety of hardware and software in our shaves can be fun, interesting and help us find our favourite set-up’s.

My continued practice with a locked four shave kit has brought my shaves to a very high efficiency and comfort. Always repeating the same process with the same equipment will always yield best results. Changing one element will effect the process and adjustments and changes are then required. The more changes the more adjustments are required.

After a few years of DE shaving I went to single use blades. Using sharpest blades for every shave improved all aspects of my shave. At this point in my life I wouldn’t consider using a dull blade in the kitchen and most definitely not on my sensitive skin shaving.

LRod when I transitioned to DE from a half a century of mediocre and painful shaves. I was determined to find comfort and enjoyment in my shaves. Using the excellent community of B&B it has nurtured and taught me to pay close attention to the basic fundamentals of a wet shave. Of course we are all different in our whisker growth, skin condition, shaving intervals and preferred shave kits. Finding and repeating the best combination to suit our comfort and enjoyment is a journey.

I use various razors and blades and usually get great shaves. The most obvious muscle memory (per razor) is the angle for each. Blade of course can affect things but I normally stay with around 3 different types unless I'm experimenting. And for each of those razors, I normally don't have to remember where I need to position the angle (even though I usually do). I can repeat some great shaves without having to stick to the same prep/razor/blade every single day: Place the head on my face, angle till engagement and go with no pressure!
That's all it takes!
Granted, it took me a couple years to get to that, but the point is that I eventually did. And I didn't do it with just one razor and blade.

Maybe it doesn't work for some but for me it has. Same angle (per razor) & no pressure is what I consider paramount in getting a great shave. Everything else is secondary. If it weren't like this for me, it'd be rocket science and it wouldn't be enjoyable then.
And back to the original topic:
All this without steep shaving which is rough no matter what (for me). And trust me, I'm not the only one that feels this way. So the steep theory being best really doesn't work for everyone!