I have some unopened vintage Gillette Blue Blades on the way to Evil for testing.
Scanning Electron Microscope Blade Edge Images
- Thread starter Evil4blue
- Start date
Sampler pack and load them into a razor, one by one. YMMV is king here. But it is interesting to see what is regarded as the "sharpest" blades in comparison to others.
From these angles, we can't really tell how sharp a blade is. We can see pitting, chips, etc on surface, however we can't see exactly how sharp that blade is without a different view along the side. As has been noted, this would likely be difficult to mount and interpret.
Evil, you should add some false coloration to these. Can do you do that from your station, or is that done byt a "different department"?
HI Evil4blue
Wow, Since asking for the results table and %'s good to know that has prompted good discussions about the elements, %'s of Chromium as well as other results. Mblakele's post (69) is superb and it'll be interesting following that post up.
What has been interesting is that some blades show 12% Cr, where as others have been up to 17% (by weight). Now some blade manufacturers seem to make a sales pitch of ... Extra Stainless (so their % is greater than say 12%), however there are manufacturers whom have their Cr % up high and don't need to brag / state it.
We are finding in the UK that the quality of "stainless" has dramatically reduced, by definition it should be >10.5% (by weight), But there is basically no Sheffield steel any more and what we have found is that over the last few years, we have "stainless" that 2 years later is pitting and rusting. Surely something that "should not" happen.
Am subscribed to the post as finding this very interesting.
p.s. good point Bassman314
Wow, Since asking for the results table and %'s good to know that has prompted good discussions about the elements, %'s of Chromium as well as other results. Mblakele's post (69) is superb and it'll be interesting following that post up.
What has been interesting is that some blades show 12% Cr, where as others have been up to 17% (by weight). Now some blade manufacturers seem to make a sales pitch of ... Extra Stainless (so their % is greater than say 12%), however there are manufacturers whom have their Cr % up high and don't need to brag / state it.
We are finding in the UK that the quality of "stainless" has dramatically reduced, by definition it should be >10.5% (by weight), But there is basically no Sheffield steel any more and what we have found is that over the last few years, we have "stainless" that 2 years later is pitting and rusting. Surely something that "should not" happen.
Am subscribed to the post as finding this very interesting.
p.s. good point Bassman314
First, thanks Evil4blue for your time and efforts! 
This thread should definitely be "stickied" for future reference or have its own wiki page. It reminds me of the old blade reviews with bevel photos by Squire on shavemyface.com.
I was also most disappointed to see than the Personna Platinum Chromes (Personna Reds) apparently do not have any platinum on the blade surface. At least the Astra Superior Platinums are as advertised.
This thread should definitely be "stickied" for future reference or have its own wiki page. It reminds me of the old blade reviews with bevel photos by Squire on shavemyface.com.
I was also most disappointed to see than the Personna Platinum Chromes (Personna Reds) apparently do not have any platinum on the blade surface. At least the Astra Superior Platinums are as advertised.
Wow, there is some very cool information here! It is fascinating to see the differences in the blade makeup and level of finish/fineness of grind.
Also, maybe a mod can merge all of the pictures into the original post or add more posts at the beginning of the thread to add pictures to? Just a thought to make it easier to find the images.
Also, maybe a mod can merge all of the pictures into the original post or add more posts at the beginning of the thread to add pictures to? Just a thought to make it easier to find the images.
- Thread starter
- #87
I have no "Other Department" so I'll have to figure out how to do this myself.
Just some background on myself. I have a degree in Chemistry and a couple Masters in Engineering and Science, but have been working as a Material Scientist for the past 15 years. Metals aren't really my deal, I'm much more involved with ceramics and composites. I'm not going to name my company here, due to the nature of my work, but lets say I get to work with a lot of cutting edge stuff.
As for the SEM, we have a really nice one in my lab, but I don't get a lot of hands-on time with it normally, but we're losing one of our Metallurgists in a couple weeks so I've been training on the instrument to help bridge the gap until we bring a new person on-board.
I haven't spent this much time on a SEM since college, so I'm learning a lot of this on the fly.
I'm using this razor blade study as a training exercise in our SEM system. I've only scratched the surface of the optical capability of the machine. 150x is peanuts for our machine, but going in really close, you kinda lose the scope of what you're really trying to look at.
I'll scan a few blades at much higher mag just to show you guys the next time I get in the room...maybe tomorrow. I still have about 10-12 blade brands available to me to scan, and I've had some nice people offer to send me some vintage blades to scan too.
Once I get through these initial overall scans, I'll do some used blades and some stropping tests. I'm also going to look into some of our different mounts and see if I can get an on-edge view of a blade.
Keep the suggestions coming and I'll do what I can.
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- Thread starter
- #89
In honor of the Olympics (not really, just sounds good), I did 4 more Russian blades this morning.
Rapira Platinum Lux:
Rapira Swedish Supersteel:
Rapira Stainless:
Ladas Super Stainless:
All these come from the same factory, I believe, and all have the same Teflon coating along their edge. I confirmed this using a new tool I found this morning in my analysis software that lets me analyze an area of my subject rather than the whole imaged area. The result looks like this:
As you can see the circled area is the scanned area and it pegged the Fluorine in the Teflon.
I also found a measuring tool, here's the bevel area of the Lux vs the Swedish:
The Swedish Supersteel has almost twice the bevel width of the Lux.
Rapira Platinum Lux:
Rapira Swedish Supersteel:
Rapira Stainless:
Ladas Super Stainless:
All these come from the same factory, I believe, and all have the same Teflon coating along their edge. I confirmed this using a new tool I found this morning in my analysis software that lets me analyze an area of my subject rather than the whole imaged area. The result looks like this:
As you can see the circled area is the scanned area and it pegged the Fluorine in the Teflon.
I also found a measuring tool, here's the bevel area of the Lux vs the Swedish:
The Swedish Supersteel has almost twice the bevel width of the Lux.
Great stuff!
But don't get fired.
-jim
But don't get fired.
-jim
- Thread starter
- #91
Lol, I'll try not to.
Wonderful! This is incredibly interesting and a new way to look at blades and more information to potentially help people understand why some blades work better than others!
I am really loving this thread. Evil4blue, you are definitely THE MAN. My fondest desire would be for someone (Evil perhaps) to do an analysis of these images and explain what they are seeing. Does the smooth appearance of some edges translate to smooth shaves? Are some images that seem smooth counter-intuitively yielding poor shaves. I know I'm in geek overdrive, but it just feels good. Some edges look really rough, but as I look closely I am not sure that I am not looking through some sort of debris or coating and can see the shadow of a more or less smooth blade underneath. the debris or coating if that is what it is, does it wipe away and not effect the shave, or is it unyielding and remain and interfere causing some perceptible quality?
Your's basking in nerdy ponderings.
Your's basking in nerdy ponderings.
Is it just me, or are the Russian blades not as "clean" as the previous samples? You can see more grind marks and pitting, and the edges aren't nearly as clean as the First runs.
This is just so much awesome. I love it.
This is just so much awesome. I love it.
- Thread starter
- #95
The edges on the Russian blades do look more ragged, but all four of them have a Teflon coating that obscures the true edge. Unfortunately, I don't know that you can really determine sharpness and blade longevity based on the info I've posted here.
I've looked at the specification on determining sharpness and the test itself isn't that difficult, but I don't have the equipment at my disposal to run the test. For more info on the sharpness test and instrument, look here:
http://www.catra.org/pages/products/surgical/surgst.htm
I've looked at the specification on determining sharpness and the test itself isn't that difficult, but I don't have the equipment at my disposal to run the test. For more info on the sharpness test and instrument, look here:
http://www.catra.org/pages/products/surgical/surgst.htm
- Thread starter
- #97
Look at the bottom of the first post. There is a Voskhod scan there.
I also have a Sputnik blade to scan. I believe is also from the St Petersburg plant,
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I see! On the Ladas and the Rapira, you can see a spot where the teflon is pulling away from the blade.
- Thread starter
- #99
Most of the Teflon coating will be gone after the first shave anyway...at on that leading edge.
Something about that puzzles me. I have been taking low-quality images of unused and used blades with a cheap USB scope, and I often see rough coating textures like that. The roughness disappears after a few shaves, which fits in with my earlier post on sintered PTFE. Here are a couple of examples. Sorry about the image quality: did I mention that the scope was cheap?
But here is the part that puzzles me: those two blades above are Gillette 7 O'Clock SharpEdge (yellow) and Gillette Silver Blue, and your images of both blades show no evidence of rough coatings.
http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/scalmas/media/Razor SEM/Gillette_Sliver_Blue_150x.jpg.html
http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/scalmas/media/Razor SEM/Gillette_Sharp_Edge_150x.jpg.html
Any idea why that would happen? Maybe something to do with how the SEM was adjusted, or something inherent to SEM technology?
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