Once Upon A Stubble

[comis]

1st page re-cap

Here is what I learnt as a newbie after my 1st month of wet shaving:

1) Get a mild-mid aggressiveness razor from the shavewiki aggressive list. I got the Merkur Futur as a newbie, which is a pretty aggressive adjustable for a newbie. While it is a pretty nice razor, learning on that razor as a newbie is not the easiest thing. Should I have known of this forum and the shavewiki much earlier, I think I might have started right around the middle instead of going to extremes.

2) Absolutely zero pressure when you shave. I paid dearly when I don't.

3) Kyle prep (as founnd in shavewiki) is great. One may not have to follow it strictly, but shower and plenty of hydration before shave really does soften the beard. I had no idea how well that works until use it, it's pure magic.

4) Stay really close to the mirror, pay attention to the face and the action upclose. I learned by wataching a lot of youtubers shaving online, and what I didn't realize was most of these folks probably already knew their face really well, and may even get a clean shave if they do it in the dark. But for a newbie, staying really close to the mirror really helps me to achieve a more effetive shave.

5) Stick with the same gears and practice. If you'd read the kind input from AimlessWanderer last page, that is what I do feel too. Switching razors or gears from shave to shave could be difficult for a newbie, and may not help to improve technique. So moving onwards, I probably will try to stick with each one razor longer, and not to rotate razor from shave to shave.

 

[comis]

Mar 3, 2020

Cond: 3mm whiskers

Gears: Merkur Futur @1-1.5, Personna Platnium(1), CIC boar #9, TOBS luxury

Prep: shower, pre-shave lather rub in

Shave:
1st pass: WTG, Futur @1.5, stay close to mirror, a whopping 90+% done!
2nd pass: WTG around mouth corner, XTG under nose, felt uncomfortable tug
3rd pass(planned, didn't happen):

Post: Cold water rinse

Comments:
I told AimlessWanderer I will stick with one set of gears longer, just to hone on my skill. I did have a little struggle to choose between the Feather ASD2 vs Merkur Futur, but ended up choosing Futur because it is more aggressive, so it kinda teach me to constantly use light pressure. Also, ASD2 being a much milder razor do seems to take on a more steep angle according to most(most seems to agree on the 45deg is more effective), so I am going to keep practicing the light pressure/30 deg on the Futur.

Like many newbie, I have caught on a bad case of RAD, so more razors are already inbound. But I just gonna try my best to avoid the temptation and keep on practicing with the same set a while longer. However, I am really looking forward to trying the Lucky Tiger aftershave and Nivia sensitive skin lotion. I think those will help my skin recuperate faster/feel better.

Back to the shave, 1st pass was very effective. The personna platinum blade seems pretty sharp, and staying really close to mirror does help to map my face. After rinse, most beard are gone except the usual trouble spots right under the nose and around the corner of the mouth.

The 2nd pass XTG right under the nose prove to be a difficult maneuver for me. Futur has a pretty big cap, and XTG is probably the more effective way to get it under the nose. I did feel an uncomfortable tug as I do the XTG, kinda similar to Feather blade in a 2nd shave. But it could be my technique or just the sharpness of the blade, I guess I have to see until future shaves.

I am rather amazed how effective is the Futur, even at 1-1.5. After two passes, it was a CCS and not wanting to irritate my skin any more, I just called it a day. Overall it was a good shave, face felt ever so slightly 'raw' but it is not much more from last shave.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Milder razors require a more precise angle, not a steeper one. Too steep and too shallow both raise the blade off the face. Also, the angle varies between different razors.

If you want to find out the angle for your razor, take the blade out and put the cap back on. Then place the razor lightly on the back of your hand as if you were going to shave it, and angle it so that the cap and comb are both in contact with your hand at the same time. That is the optimum angle to your skin.

If you raise the handle, the comb lifts off and the blade angle gets shallower, but it also lifts the blade off the skin. If you lower the handle instead, the comb stays on the skin but the cap lifts, and the blade angle gets steeper. However, once again the blade is being lifted.

Once you understand what angle you are trying to achieve, that's when the fun begins - trying to maintain that angle to your skin, all round the contours of your face. That's the critical bit - not maintaining the angle from horizontal or vertical, but relative to the shin where the shaving action is, so the angle is in constant motion over every curve of your face.

More aggressive razors are more forgiving of that angle, and allow a little more angle error before the blade lifts off. However, it also bites harder when you get it wrong, as you've already discovered

 

[Esox]

Welcome to the journals section.

I'll be following along as best I can!

 

[comis]

Thank you for the comment, always appreciate that!

Milder razors require a more precise angle, not a steeper one. Too steep and too shallow both raise the blade off the face. Also, the angle varies between different razors.

This is golden. This really coincide with I had been reading here on B&B--I used to think aggressiveness is the same as blade gap(which is wrong), and turns out "blade exposure" plays a major part of how much blade you feel on skin, as shown on this great picture here. And the interesting example here is the Feather AS-D2, it's termed as one of the mildest DE razor but it's blade gap is 0.74mm which places it right in the middle amongst many razors.

If you want to find out the angle for your razor, take the blade out and put the cap back on. Then place the razor lightly on the back of your hand as if you were going to shave it, and angle it so that the cap and comb are both in contact with your hand at the same time. That is the optimum angle to your skin.

If you raise the handle, the comb lifts off and the blade angle gets shallower, but it also lifts the blade off the skin. If you lower the handle instead, the comb stays on the skin but the cap lifts, and the blade angle gets steeper. However, once again the blade is being lifted.

That's a great trick, and thank you! Some would say shaving at the shallowest angle possible(riding the cap?) is the best practice. Do you think there is any truth to that? Or would you consider "neutral angle" shaving is better?

Once you understand what angle you are trying to achieve, that's when the fun begins - trying to maintain that angle to your skin, all round the contours of your face. That's the critical bit - not maintaining the angle from horizontal or vertical, but relative to the shin where the shaving action is, so the angle is in constant motion over every curve of your face.

More aggressive razors are more forgiving of that angle, and allow a little more angle error before the blade lifts off. However, it also bites harder when you get it wrong, as you've already discovered

Following the curvature with the proper angle is the challenging part, I felt that especially when XTG under the nose.

 

[comis]

Welcome to the journals section.

I'll be following along as best I can!

Thank you, and please don't hesitate to give shave critic or share experience.

 

[Esox]

Thank you, and please don't hesitate to give shave critic or share experience.

There are a lot of us that keep active shave journals here on B&B. Most are busy and may get sidetracked from time to time, but are filled with good information, of all kinds lol.

Mine is here: My Grande Journey - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/my-grande-journey.527934/

 

[AimlessWanderer]

That's a great trick, and thank you! Some would say shaving at the shallowest angle possible(riding the cap?) is the best practice. Do you think there is any truth to that? Or would you consider "neutral angle" shaving is better?

Neutral.

Always.

Some people ride the cap, and some ride the comb, meaning they plant that part of the razor on the face, and adjust the angle from there. My approach is more unusual (not that it will surprise anyone who's known me a few years as you have ) in that my aim is to have the blade at skin level, but not let the cap or comb touch. A few people refer to it as my "hover" approach. It doesn't always work of course, and both cap and comb touch at times. However, if you think of the cap and comb as being the training wheels on a child's bicycle, and the main wheels as the blade, you'll get the idea. The blade is always in contact, but very lightly, and I kind of bounce between the cap and comb being in contact.

Anything outside of that "zone", and the blade starts to lift. This can feel tuggy on my beard, but can lead to other problems too. If you're not cutting at skin level, you're not getting a true shear effect, and on my beard, the hair can break or tear (I am assuming) instead of being cleanly cut. I say this, because I am more likely to experience problems between shaves, with ingrown hairs and such.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

This is golden. This really coincide with I had been reading here on B&B--I used to think aggressiveness is the same as blade gap(which is wrong), and turns out "blade exposure" plays a major part of how much blade you feel on skin, as shown on this great picture here. And the interesting example here is the Feather AS-D2, it's termed as one of the mildest DE razor but it's blade gap is 0.74mm which places it right in the middle amongst many razors.

Yet another area for variation. The perceived aggressiveness of a razor, isn't universally felt. Sure, there are some that are clearly more bitey than others, but on two similarly matched razors, one person might think one is slightly more aggressive, but the next person thinks the opposite.

The blade makes a difference. You might find certain razors prefer certain blades, but again, someone else might prefer other pairings. Polsilver blades don't work for me at all. They feel like they're ripping every hair out at the root... slowly. Fatip razors don't work for me at all. Feels like I'm shaving with a rabid piranha. Combine the two, and I get a reasonable shave, though still no better than I get with my regular kit. I PIFed (what folks here at B&B call a giveaway) the razor to another victim, and am now thankfully free of Polsilver (known to me as Polifail) blades too.

Mike @Esox will try to convince you that they're both great. However, he's Canadian, and I'm a Yorkshireman, so we're both a bit defective You make your own mind up... but not yet... stick to the basics with one set up first

 

[Esox]

Feels like I'm shaving with a rabid piranha.

Have you tried shaving with a rabid Piranha? lol

I think "aggressiveness" is directly related to the amount of blade support the base gives the blade. Blade exposure can compound that.

Both razors above have virtually the same amount of blade exposure. The R41 has a slightly steeper blade angle.

The R41, without question, is the more aggressive razor. The Fatip on the other hand is incredibly smooth because the blade is very well supported and stable. Well, for those of us that arent Al. There always has to be one! lol

The difference is in the bases.

The R41 supports the blade at the red lines and, in turn, by the cap holding the blade in place under spring tension.

The Fatip on the other hand, like I mentioned above, supports the blade with the entire base.

The same can be said for the Gillette NEW LC and the Gillette NEW SC.

NEW SC left, NEW LC right.

The NEW SC baseplate fully supports the blade. The NEW LC does not.

A side effect of having such a rigidly supported blade is that you'll feel exactly how difficult to cut your stubble is. If there is no give in the razor or blade through flex, which can cushion the slicing action, the only thing left to give, is the hair and skin. This is why my blade choices narrowed sharply once I discovered rigid designs.

To understand the idea more, you can try a search for "squiggly green line" coined by none other than Al lol. There is much to read on the topic of blade rigidity around the forum.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

The worked

Blade rigidity isn't as significant a factor for me personally, maybe due to my technique, and as you don't have particularly heavy growth, it might not be for you either. But you never know till you try. For Mike and his tree trunk stubble, it's absolutely critical. While Mike and I differ in many respects with shaving, he's another good bloke to listen to, and always has time to try and help others. He puts a lot of thought into what he's saying, even when he's wrong

It's always good to get different opinions too. We are all constantly learning from each other, even though some of us have been shaving for decades. The regulars in my shave journal, Mike, Jim, Rave, Doug, Cal and Kit are all good people. That said, the vast majority of people here are great.

 

[comis]

Neutral.

Always.

Some people ride the cap, and some ride the comb, meaning they plant that part of the razor on the face, and adjust the angle from there. My approach is more unusual (not that it will surprise anyone who's known me a few years as you have ) in that my aim is to have the blade at skin level, but not let the cap or comb touch. A few people refer to it as my "hover" approach. It doesn't always work of course, and both cap and comb touch at times. However, if you think of the cap and comb as being the training wheels on a child's bicycle, and the main wheels as the blade, you'll get the idea. The blade is always in contact, but very lightly, and I kind of bounce between the cap and comb being in contact.

Anything outside of that "zone", and the blade starts to lift. This can feel tuggy on my beard, but can lead to other problems too. If you're not cutting at skin level, you're not getting a true shear effect, and on my beard, the hair can break or tear (I am assuming) instead of being cleanly cut. I say this, because I am more likely to experience problems between shaves, with ingrown hairs and such.

I am no where near the level you shave, but through out my first month, I did once or twice experience the benefit of 'ultra' zero pressure where I literally felt the razor is just 'hovering', especially going XTG under nose and I could have sworn I felt like the blade is just tree-topping the beard, without causing any drag/tug or irritation.

 

[comis]

Yet another area for variation. The perceived aggressiveness of a razor, isn't universally felt. Sure, there are some that are clearly more bitey than others, but on two similarly matched razors, one person might think one is slightly more aggressive, but the next person thinks the opposite.

The blade makes a difference. You might find certain razors prefer certain blades, but again, someone else might prefer other pairings. Polsilver blades don't work for me at all. They feel like they're ripping every hair out at the root... slowly. Fatip razors don't work for me at all. Feels like I'm shaving with a rabid piranha. Combine the two, and I get a reasonable shave, though still no better than I get with my regular kit. I PIFed (what folks here at B&B call a giveaway) the razor to another victim, and am now thankfully free of Polsilver (known to me as Polifail) blades too.

Mike @Esox will try to convince you that they're both great. However, he's Canadian, and I'm a Yorkshireman, so we're both a bit defective You make your own mind up... but not yet... stick to the basics with one set up first

So far I have only experienced 4 blades, Feather, Astra SP, Personna, Merkur. And even as a layman, I could feel very obvious difference between them.

I felt Feather and Personna are genuinely sharp blades, but I also felt a fair amount of 'tug' from them(especially at 2nd shave). Merkur felt dull to me, and so far my favorite is Astra SP because it felt consistent from shave to shave and it is relatively sharp.

However, as a newbie, I don't want to set things in stone too early. Those tugging or mild irritation(where I felt raw after the shave) could just be my technique.

 

[comis]

There are a lot of us that keep active shave journals here on B&B. Most are busy and may get sidetracked from time to time, but are filled with good information, of all kinds lol.

Mine is here: My Grande Journey - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/my-grande-journey.527934/

I will definitely pop in and try best to follow!

Have you tried shaving with a rabid Piranha? lol

I think "aggressiveness" is directly related to the amount of blade support the base gives the blade. Blade exposure can compound that.

View attachment 1070348

Both razors above have virtually the same amount of blade exposure. The R41 has a slightly steeper blade angle.

The R41, without question, is the more aggressive razor. The Fatip on the other hand is incredibly smooth because the blade is very well supported and stable. Well, for those of us that arent Al. There always has to be one! lol

The difference is in the bases.

The R41 supports the blade at the red lines and, in turn, by the cap holding the blade in place under spring tension.

View attachment 1070351

The Fatip on the other hand, like I mentioned above, supports the blade with the entire base.

View attachment 1070350

The same can be said for the Gillette NEW LC and the Gillette NEW SC.

NEW SC left, NEW LC right.

View attachment 1070352
View attachment 1070353

The NEW SC baseplate fully supports the blade. The NEW LC does not.

A side effect of having such a rigidly supported blade is that you'll feel exactly how difficult to cut your stubble is. If there is no give in the razor or blade through flex, which can cushion the slicing action, the only thing left to give, is the hair and skin. This is why my blade choices narrowed sharply once I discovered rigid designs.

To understand the idea more, you can try a search for "squiggly green line" coined by none other than Al lol. There is much to read on the topic of blade rigidity around the forum.

Great post!

Blade rigidity in razor...this is a whole new territory. Who would have guessed there's so much science behind wet shaving?

What would be your choice of blades for a rigid razor? I remember reading on forum that KAI has a wider width than most blades, but are there variance for blade thickness too?

 

[comis]

The worked

Blade rigidity isn't as significant a factor for me personally, maybe due to my technique, and as you don't have particularly heavy growth, it might not be for you either. But you never know till you try. For Mike and his tree trunk stubble, it's absolutely critical. While Mike and I differ in many respects with shaving, he's another good bloke to listen to, and always has time to try and help others. He puts a lot of thought into what he's saying, even when he's wrong

It's always good to get different opinions too. We are all constantly learning from each other, even though some of us have been shaving for decades. The regulars in my shave journal, Mike, Jim, Rave, Doug, Cal and Kit are all good people. That said, the vast majority of people here are great.

Can't agree more of that! These great folks are what makes this forum a joy to read.

 

[TinyT]

Welcome to B&B. I see the subject of rigidity and razor design has cropped up. Nice!

 

[Esox]

What would be your choice of blades for a rigid razor? I remember reading on forum that KAI has a wider width than most blades, but are there variance for blade thickness too?

Blades I think are the most personal choice of all of this. Which blade works for one person most likely wont for another.

My top blades are:

1: Polsilver and Feather.
2: Gillette Yellow.
3: Derby Extra.
4: Perma-Sharp Super.
5: Gillette Black.

In my Fatip Grande with a typical 3 pass shave, Feather, Polsilver, Gillette Yellow, Derby Extra. In my Grande for a single lathered pass ATG shave Polsilver and Gillette Yellow.

In my Gillette Old Types, Feather, Polsilver.

In my NEW SC, Polsilver, Derby Extra.

In my Gillette Regent, Perma-Sharp Super.

In my Techs and made in England Old Type clone, Feather.

In my R41, because it lacks base support, the only blade I can use is a fresh Feather blade and only for a single shave. Even then I cant shave ATG until the third pass and have to alter my second pass shave directions.

On my first ever shave with a Polsilver blade, I liked them so much I ordered 200 before my razor was dry.

Derby Extra has also been a favorite since my first use of one. I have over 200 of them left. All are the pre 2016 version that virtually everyone hates with a passion. They need a rigid design to get the most from and give me a very nice BBS shave.

Feather blades I struggled with for a year. I always found them harsh. On my first use of PdP 63 however, all that harshness disappeared. That was my discovery of soaps my skin likes better. Now Feather have moved to the top of the list. I gave away 100 of the 200 I had because of that harshness. I have 95 left.

I'm low on Gillette Yellow and Black and likely wont buy more again. I have plenty of blades. I've been out of Perma-Sharp Supers for a while now because I've forgotten to buy more on my last three orders lol. In my Gillette Regent that blade is Nirvana.

I mostly use SE razors now. My GEM Bullet Tip and MMOC carry the load. Theres only one blade goes in them, the GEM PTFE. I start a fresh blade in my Bullet Tip and after 4 shaves it goes into my MMOC for the next 6.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

It completely befuddles me how you find Feather and Polsilver equals, Mike. They seem worlds apart to me, with Feather being one of my favourites, and Polsilver my most hated. I'm still on Team Esox when it comes to the Derby Extra (Green) though. They work great for me too - I wouldn't say a favourite - but a perfectly acceptable blade for 10 shaves or so, on a par with Personna Platinums for sure. I'm also on Team Esox for hating Gillette Silver Blue.

My Top 5 favourites are still Wilkinson Sword Classic, Feather, Gillette Yellow, Astra SP, and Derby Premium, with an honourable mention for SuperMax Blue Diamond Titanium (which would score higher if it had better longevity). If I was going to go for a Top 10, the other four would be the Personna Platinum and Derby Green, Gillette Platinum, and ... now I'm struggling... maybe Kai.

 

[comis]

Thank you for all the comments on blades!

Choice of blade is an awfully interesting topic. I am just starting out, so I surely don't have the experience or data to back up any theories.

But what I find intriguing is everyone seems to have a 'favorite' blade for a 'particular' razor, and I wonder is there any survey done on blades, so people can at least agree on certain characteristic of a blade and choose accordingly? (like the razor aggressiveness chart on shavewiki)

I ask because I have a vague feeling that my Feather is very sharp, but may not be 'smooth'. I do feel the 'tug' more with Feather, especially on 2nd shave onwards. It could be my inconsistent technique, but then I only feel it for Feather/Personna, whereas I felt less 'tug' from Astra SP?

Another shave tonight, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Science doesn't help Think of it more like trying on a pair of shoes. Yes, with a series of measurements, you might discover that you need a size 9, but which size 9? All the charts and graphs won't help you as much as putting your foot in one, and having a walk round the shop

Got to learn to walk first though, or you still might get the wrong one

When you can do six close shaves in a row with no cuts or irritation, then maybe it's time to try swapping something - but only one thing at a time, and give yourself time to adjust to that, before moving on again.

I know it's exciting, and you're eager to try new stuff. It might be a little frustrating at first too, but if it makes you feel any better, I stuck with one DE razor and one blade brand for 20 years