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Merkur Futur at mildest setting #1 vs Merkur Progress at mildest setting #1 ?

Which adjustable razor at the mildest setting feels/behaves more aggressive to you?

  • Merkur Futur at mildest setting #1

  • Merkur Progress at mildest setting #1

  • The difference seems less than 5% to me

  • I haven't used both razors at their mildest settings

  • I'm not sure


Results are only viewable after voting.
Which razor head setting feels/behaves more aggressive to you?

- Merkur Futur at mildest setting #1
- Merkur Progress at mildest setting #1
- The difference seems less than 5% to me
- I haven't used both razors at their mildest settings
- I'm not sure

This is the 18th, companion public opinion poll towards (hopefully) creating a B&B Modern Razor Aggressiveness Scale. Please see (and also vote at) this page for more information:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/407692-B-amp-B-Modern-Razor-Aggressiveness-Scale


If you haven't already, please vote on all where you have experience:

1. Midpoint Reference Poll
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...iddle-of-the-road-aggressiveness-modern-razor

2. Merkur vs I Kon slants
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...on-Aggressiveness-Poll-Merkur-vs-I-Kon-slants

3. Muhle or Edwin Jagger 89 vs Merkur 34/38C
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...oll-Muhle-or-Edwin-Jagger-89-vs-Merkur-34-38C

4. Above The Tie (ATT) M1 vs Weber Polished Head (PH)
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...Above-The-Tie-(ATT)-M1-vs-Weber-Polished-Head

5. Muhle R41 (2013) vs Above The Tie (ATT) H2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ll-Muhle-R41-(2013)-vs-Above-The-Tie-(ATT)-H2

6. Weber Polished Head (PH) vs I Kon OC
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ess-Poll-Weber-Polished-Head-(PH)-vs-I-Kon-OC

7. Joris vs FaTip
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/408782-Public-Opinion-Aggressiveness-Poll-Joris-vs-FaTip

8. Feather Popular vs Feather AS-D2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...iveness-Poll-Feather-Popular-vs-Feather-AS-D2

9. The Very Mild Razors
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...c-Opinion-Aggressiveness-Poll-The-Mild-Razors

10. Any of these more aggressive than an EJ89?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ll-Any-of-these-more-aggressive-than-the-EJ89

11. The Mildest of the Very Mild?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/409698-The-mildest-of-the-very-mild

12. ATT M1 vs ATT M2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410532-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-M1-vs-M2

13. ATT R1 vs ATT R2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410535-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-R1-vs-R2

14. ATT H1 vs ATT H2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410536-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-H1-vs-H2

15. ATT M2 vs ATT R1
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-Tie-(ATT)-M2-(open-comb)-vs-R1-(straight-bar)

16. I Kon OSS open comb (OC) side vs I Kon OSS straight bar (SB) side?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...(OC)-side-vs-I-Kon-OSS-straight-bar-(SB)-side

17. Shavecraft 101 open comb (OC) side vs Shavecraft 101 straight bar (SB) side?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...side-vs-Shavecraft-101-straight-bar-(SB)-side

18. Merkur Futur at mildest setting #1 vs Merkur Progress at mildest setting #1 ?
(this poll)


Thank you!
Shawnsel
 
You may have wanted to include one more option to complement "The difference seems [feels] less than 5%";
the inclusion, "The difference seems [feels] greater than 5%"; percentages like this are pretty much subjective;
but from my experience, the difference between a Progress and a Futur set on #1 is greater than 5%.
 
Hi DEGUY,

Thank you for your vote and suggestion!

My intent was that a vote for one of the razors would also be a vote that "the difference is greater than 5%".

"The difference seems less than 5% to me" was intended to convey a vote that neither razor (at the mildest setting) is significantly more aggressive than the other. Basically a vote that they are the same.

Or alternatively, if you mean that you think that the Futur @1 is a lot more aggressive that the Progress @1 ... I'll eventually try to determine by how much in a separate future poll. Or alternatively, users could suggest a 1.0 to 10.0 aggressiveness ranking (see the original thread linked to above) by replying to this thread (or to the original thread) ... which would be very helpful.

How might I better word future polls?


Also, tangential to your point:
All of these "which is more aggressive" poll votes are completely subjective, but if we get enough subjective opinions the averaged results will become less subjective. If we get a large enough sample size we'll start to create a more objective and useful reference.


An invitation:
As a person who has experience with the Futur and Progress, I would also like to invite you to reply to the original thread with a complete list of all of the Merkur adjustable settings you've used ... and how you would assess their aggressiveness. Currently we don't have very much data on the Merkur adjustables at their various settings....

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/407692-B-amp-B-Modern-Razor-Aggressiveness-Scale


Thank you again for your vote!


Cheers!
Shawnsel
 
Last edited:
Shawnsel,
I have written polls when I had worked as an editor/writer. I like the idea of your poll; my suggestion is that if you offer a choice that suggests a percentage above, the converse is worth including. However, as both of us suggested, percentages are subjective and not quantifiable. And with this said, shaving is subjective with respect to a razor's aggressive feel; even blade gap cannot be used to determine a razor's aggressive feel.

I think anyone who has used both of these razors knows a Futur is far more aggressive than a Progress; however, I've owned Progress razors that are less smooth shaving than Futur razors I've owned; nonetheless, the Futurs were in each instance more aggressive than the Progress razors I've owned. And this is a given among the community at large. Yes, you'll find respondents who will say bunk; but on subjects that can have only subjective responses, one expects this; and extreme responses have to be discarded in favor of the majority. But the extreme responses may be included under a sidebar, if deemed necessary.

My response to your poll was submitted in earnest. I know some on B&B submit venomous or challenging critiques, such was not the instance with response. I am curious, are you doing this for yourself or are these polls an attempt to gather data for remuneration? Of course, there's no obligation on your part to answer my query.

I wish you well with your surveys,
Roger
 
I am curious, are you doing this for yourself or are these polls an attempt to gather data for remuneration? Of course, there's no obligation on your part to answer my query.

Thank you for asking, as I've been a bit fearful that some might worry that I might be a social marketer paid to promote a certain brand.

The short answer is an honest, "no". I am not associated with or paid by any company in regards to B&B (nor any other forum for that matter). I am not a social marketer. Nor am I paid or professionally compensated in any way for any postings. Nor do I personally know any owners or employees of any shaving related company. In fact, I would not accept payment for my postings on B&B even if it were offered.

The longer answer is that I enjoy science, research, analysis, project management, working with people ... and shaving. I am a person who tends to throw himself into hobbies (for a time at least), and by doing so I find that I get more out of them.


Why am I putting so much time into this project? Several reasons I think:

- I have enjoyed and learned a lot from B&B and I like the idea of giving back to the community.

- I have found the comparison of razors to be more confusing than I think it should/could be. I think much of the comparison advice on any given thread is dependent on who is available and interested in that thread at the time it was posted. I think a lot of advice is passed on by people who read the advice from somewhere else ... and so one person's opinion can become magnified through repeated retellings. While I think mostly all of this advice has value and is given with good intentions, it is less objective and scientific than it could be.

- I think many of the forum's users would appreciate a list of razors ranked by aggressiveness (as long as the list is based on the collective experience of many shavers) ... even though their mileage may/will vary. And I think/hope that I can facilitate the creation of this list as an enduring and hopefully helpful reference.

- I think this list might even help with the overall promotion of DE shaving.

- And ... I'm enjoying the challenge :)


Again, thanks for asking.


Sincerely,
Shawnsel

p.s. I would say more about myself ... but I prefer a bit of anonymity ... everything posted on a public forum is hyper accessible these days
 
Doesn't say it all. Blade gap is only part of the equation regarding aggressiveness.

Maybe we don't need these polls, but maybe we still find them fun, entertaining or they give us the nice useless illusion of usefulness, which is OK for me.

Regarding the expression of felt aggressiveness-difference in percentage I have to say that I find it quite hilarious and enjoyed the minute or two I was thinking about what it really would mean to measure such a difference - I think it would take at least half a dozen philosophers to accomplish such a task! :biggrin1:
 


Thank you for pointing out this common misconception.

A quote from right above the Blade Gap Chart that you link to:
... "this chart should not be even be considered as a general ranking of aggressiveness, mildness, or efficiency of the various razors. It is only a (likely imperfect) listing/ranking of blade gaps."


IMO, blade gap is less than half of the equation towards aggressiveness ... and sometimes I fear that our Blade Gap Chart does more harm than good.

As an example that I can speak to from my personal experience as well as many opinions read on B&B, from the blade gap chart you could incorrectly conclude that the EJ89 is significantly more aggressive than the ATT R1:
0.58mm Above the Tie (ATT) with R-1 base plate
0.76mm Mühle R89 / Edwin Jagger DE89L

Quite the opposite is true. I believe that I can safely state that most people would consider the R1 to be significantly more aggressive than the EJ89. And this example is not a rarity. There are many other instances where a razor further down that list would be less aggressive than one above.


And ... I think that speaks well to why I'm trying to do these polls :)


Cheers,
Shawnsel
 
... and sometimes I fear that our Blade Gap Chart does more harm than good.

As an example that I can speak to from my personal experience as well as many opinions read on B&B, from the blade gap chart you could incorrectly conclude that the EJ89 is significantly more aggressive than the ATT R1:


Quite the opposite is true.

And that is why they say :

... "this chart should not be even be considered as a general ranking of aggressiveness, mildness, or efficiency of the various razors.

As you say, blade gap alone has nothing to do with aggressiveness, if people assume that, they are assuming wrong.

The Blade Gap chart is very useful and I don't see what harm can it cause.
 
The Blade Gap chart is very useful and I don't see what harm can it cause.

I agree that the Blade Gap Chart is useful ... it's just that I've seen too many posts where people assumed that chart was the primary (if not only) indicator towards aggressiveness.

Perhaps we should just make the warning statement more prominent?

Something like:

Warning: Blade Gap does not equate to aggressiveness, and this chart should not be considered as a general ranking of aggressiveness, mildness, or efficiency of the various razors. It is only a (likely imperfect) listing/ranking of blade gaps.
 
There is one definitive 'source' when it comes to a razor's aggressiveness: the guy using it.
Charts and graphs are specifications only, they are not going to tell anyone how a razor will
perform for them and with their choice of blades. Published spec's comprise measurable information
that one can reference, and I often do; but when it comes to a razor's performance, the one who
makes the final decision on all fronts is the user. Same argument takes place about blades, soaps,
brushes...
 
There is one definitive 'source' when it comes to a razor's aggressiveness: the guy using it.
Charts and graphs are specifications only, they are not going to tell anyone how a razor will
perform for them and with their choice of blades. Published spec's comprise measurable information
that one can reference, and I often do; but when it comes to a razor's performance, the one who
makes the final decision on all fronts is the user. Same argument takes place about blades, soaps,
brushes...

This is of course true, but the same people who are deciding what razor(s) to try on their face are currently either looking at just the Blade Gap Chart, and/or posting a thread asking for the personal-experience advice of whoever is available to reply to their post at that time.

The polls and hopefully resulting Razor Aggressiveness Chart will definitely be imperfect, but I genuinely believe it will be better than what we have. Other people think so too ... I've had several users thank me.


Thoughts?


Thanks,
Shawnsel
 
Thoughts?
It's entertaining. If nobody would care about, and discuss other people's opinions about razors, blades, brushes and soaps, and only would take in account his own experience (which of course is all what matters in the end), then the badgerandblade forum would not exist.
 
It's entertaining. If nobody would care about, and discuss other people's opinions about razors, blades, brushes and soaps, and only would take in account his own experience (which of course is all what matters in the end), then the badgerandblade forum would not exist.

Good point. And ... if people only took into account their own experiences, then they would be buying a lot of razors (or likely never finding the best razor for them).
 
And ... if people only took into account their own experiences, then they would be buying a lot of razors (or likely never finding the best razor for them).
If I would always have taken in account all the good advice here on b&b I would have bought a whole lot more razors than I did so far! :biggrin1:
 
I think anyone who has used both of these razors knows a Futur is far more aggressive than a Progress; however, I've owned Progress razors that are less smooth shaving than Futur razors I've owned; nonetheless, the Futurs were in each instance more aggressive than the Progress razors I've owned. And this is a given among the community at large.

From the completely polarized responses to the survey ... I'd say you're right on that. :blushing:

Sorry if I wasted members' time with this specific poll, but at least the discussion has been interesting....


Thanks,
Shawnsel
 
Sorry if I wasted members' time with this specific poll, but at least the discussion has been interesting....
I would not worry about that. If someone clicks on a topic he is not interested in, should this really be the problem of the tread opener??? :blink:
 
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