I Need Help From Smartphone Users

[Phog Allen]

Good evening gents. I have a question about smartphones and was wondering if one of you chaps would volunteer to play guinea pig for me?

My wife has an older PDA without wifi. Lately the only PDA you will find is built into a smartphone. Typically running Windows Mobile but there are others. Now we don't need or want a smartphone for its expensive data plan through a provider. We were thinking of picking up a used one and using it sans sim card for the pda and possibly wifi functions alone. We have looked at eBay and you can buy phones like Palm Treo 800w, Cingular(HTC)8525 and a few others for 45-85 dollars depending on condition and seller. This price point makes experimentation cheap. If things don't work out or it craps out in a year, no big deal.

What I wondered is if one or more of you chaps who have smartphones would mind to try using it without its sim card and see if it will turn on and use the PIM features and wifi without it. I don't know about the Palm Treo 800 since these were all CDMA/Sprint phones and hence, have no sim card to remove. If these phones work without a sim, I don't care what brand they are since a network service won't figure into it. Sorry if this whole exercise sounds ridiculous but it really is the easiest way to find a feature laden PDA for cheap. Besides, if it is one of the GSM carrier branded phones, then phone service is just a sim card away. Thanks.

Regards, Todd

 

[DavyRay]

I have a friend at work who has an iPod Touch. It is almost the same device as the iPhone, but does not have the cell phone in it. He uses it like a phone at work. Here's how. His Touch does WiFi. He connects it to the company wifi network. He uses Skype to dial out to phones. He routinely calls his wife from work. She has a cell phone. He has only the iPod Touch. No cell phone for him. He also has the network connections and the PDA functions of the Touch.

Just a thought. I have a Nexus One phone from Google. I seriously considered only using it with wifi connections, and not having the cell phone service at all.

 

[johnmrson]

Wouldn't you be better of buying a second hand PDA with the features you want? I used to use PDA's until a couple of years ago when I got an O2 Atom Exec that was the first decent PDA / phone combo I'd used. There are plenty of good used PDA bargains around.

 

[Phog Allen]

I don't know about "good" used pdas. Most pda development stopped years ago. The used smartphone at fifty to sixty dollar is likely as close as a person could come to bargain pdas that actually have some nice features. Especially gps. As far as I know there weren't any pdas made with gps but I am not sure. We already have a HP Ipaq 2210 pda that still works. It does not have wifi and the sd cards for that are pretty dodgey from the reviews I have seen. Besides, once you fill that slot with the wifi card you are out of luck for any real usage like mp3 files or gps maps. Your memory expansion is gone.

I see the iPod touch recommended for the PIM usage a lot. The biggest trouble with that is you wind up right back at the three hundred dollar mark for a device we would be using mostly for PIM and possibly gps use in the car. I also thought about the VOIP/Skype angle as well. Particularly when the wife is traveling though our regular mobile plan covers nation wide calling. This is why we are not looking at new smarthphones. Besides, we would be tied to a 25 or 30 dollar per month data plan as well. This is more a notion I had about using the device as a sort of mini car pc. Just something to play around with yet have some functional use as well. Thank you for the replies. I wold still like to hear from a Mobile PC, Android(hint hint Davy Ray)or Symbian user as to whether their devices work without carrier connection.

Regards, Todd

 

[hifigeezer]

I have a Palm Centro now and a Treo in a drawer. The big problem with the Palm is synchronization to your PC. I synchronize to my Microsoft Outlook Calendar but it got too big for the memory in the Treo; I had to upgrade to Centro. Centro was fine until I switched to Windows 7 64-bit; I can no longer synchronize by USB cable. I had to do some research to find out how to synchronize it using Bluetooth but got it working. Palm (the company) was doing poorly but was recently acquired by Hewlett-Packard. I hope they support it better! I have good things elsewhere about the Ipod touch. Good luck!

 

[C Reed]

OP needs an Ipad. seriously, easy to use, full size keyboard, nifty touch screen/ fun to interact with, wifi. I have the 3g model I pay $20 or $25 a month on a month to month basis to get wifi every where. I don't use it to read books or play games. I use it to catch up on the news, brows the web, email and to show my portfolio if I don't feel like lugging 2-5 11x24 leather bound books with me and know I wont need to leave it some where.

I also use it as a "apple remote" to play/ change music at home or in the studio and I use a couple of the studio photographer spefic apps. I would use the calendar more if I didn't have an Iphone (loving the 4 no reception problem to report) as it is my phone, laptop, desktop in the studio, and I pad all share appointments and contacts via mobile me.

Honestly I like my Ipad, I would love it if I didn't have an Iphone as they basically do the same thing, just I can send a long business email on the I pad and read more, also bigger screen for viewing images. It goes in my running around bag instead of my laptop but the lap top still gets carted around allot (location shoots, places where I need to take extensive notes, If I think I will need any of my creative suite programs, ect.)

 

[Phog Allen]

Well, the iPad is even more expensive than a new smartphone. It does not have a camera, no SDHC slot(or any other media card for that matter), no usb port, no flash support for web sites though it is not a huge deal as web surfing was not a priority for this application, and yeah, the same 20-25 dollar per month data fee which I am trying to stay away from. And honestly, that amount of money for a device that does not function as a phone? I might as well sign up for an iPhone if I am going to go with a monthly plan. If I am not mistaken you can't even use a Skype app on the iPad though I am unsure if that is correct.

I honestly do not want another monthly fee. Hence the idea of buying a used smartphone. There may come a time in the near future when I need to go this route but not now. So that leaves the Apple stuff out. I thought it would be easy to Google a number of how to's or blogs about individuals who have tried using a smartphone as a pda only but there is scarcely an article about it. The most I have found is forum postings...mostly telling the questioner to just buy a monthly data plan. I am scouring around now for friends or acquaintances who have some sort of smartphone to run a test of what I am thinking of. We will see.

Never thought about the Treo possibly having sync issues but it makes sense. This is the whole bugaboo about using older equipement. Sometimes it just flat won't cooperate. Most Windows Mobile phones are not going to have this problem.

Regards, Todd

 

[Ruck]

I've got a motorola Q sitting in a drawer downstairs right now. I'd have to charge it to try, but if the phone isn't on a service plan, you should still be able to use all of it's features aside from those requiring data/phone service. It has been a couple years, but I believe the Q could be set to sync over both air and USB, with the USB working regardless of mobile phone connectivity.

 

[xillion]

I just tried my old unlocked Nokia E71, S60 OS, with an old non functional sim card and I was able to surf the web via Wi-Fi, access all contacts in the address books, send and receive email, and use the Google Maps app with the built in GPS. There is also a Skype app for the E71.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd also recommend picking up an Apple Touch. I've been a heavy iPhone user (right now, even ) for the past three years. If I didn't need a cell, I'd have a Touch on me constantly. It's a good Internet browser and I think she'd find the apps invaluable. There are several I use all the time.

 

[Phog Allen]

I've got a motorola Q sitting in a drawer downstairs right now. I'd have to charge it to try, but if the phone isn't on a service plan, you should still be able to use all of it's features aside from those requiring data/phone service. It has been a couple years, but I believe the Q could be set to sync over both air and USB, with the USB working regardless of mobile phone connectivity.

Well it is certainly worth a try if you don't mind doing it. This is just the sort of information I could use. Keep in mind if it works, I may PM you an offer for it! If you are amenable to it.

I just tried my old unlocked Nokia E71, S60 OS, with an old non functional sim card and I was able to surf the web via Wi-Fi, access all contacts in the address books, send and receive email, and use the Google Maps app with the built in GPS. There is also a Skype app for the E71.

Thank you Chris. That is excellent information and just what I was looking for. I am looking at a few Cingular(HTC)8525's on Scambay right now. They are pda first, phone second devices running Pocket PC. I believe they function the same as your S60 Nokia but I am unsure. Keep in mind if the 'bay idea doesn't work out I may make you an offer via PM for it. Again, only if you are amenable to it.

I'd also recommend picking up an Apple Touch. I've been a heavy iPhone user (right now, even ) for the past three years. If I didn't need a cell, I'd have a Touch on me constantly. It's a good Internet browser and I think she'd find the apps invaluable. There are several I use all the time.

Hi Erik. Of all the Apple devices, this would be the only one I would consider and even then, not at new prices. I will say this; it consistently gets great reviews.

Regards, Todd

 

[olblueyez]

I've got a motorola Q sitting in a drawer downstairs right now. I'd have to charge it to try, but if the phone isn't on a service plan, you should still be able to use all of it's features aside from those requiring data/phone service. It has been a couple years, but I believe the Q could be set to sync over both air and USB, with the USB working regardless of mobile phone connectivity.

I also have a Motorola Q9h with all the trimmings is you are interested.

 

[Phog Allen]

Hey guys. Just a heads up. Unless I am missing it in the specs, the Q does NOT sport wifi capabilities without a 3rd party adapter. This is not going to be in the running if that is the case. Maybe a later model did?

Regards, Todd

 

[xillion]

Thank you Chris. That is excellent information and just what I was looking for. I am looking at a few Cingular(HTC)8525's on Scambay right now. They are pda first, phone second devices running Pocket PC. I believe they function the same as your S60 Nokia but I am unsure. Keep in mind if the 'bay idea doesn't work out I may make you an offer via PM for it. Again, only if you are amenable to it.
Regards, Todd

Sure thing Todd. The phone is just sitting on my shelf waiting for a new home.

 

[kongjie]

...and yeah, the same 20-25 dollar per month data fee which I am trying to stay away from.

I must be confused. You are looking for a PIM and your original idea is a smartphone without calling capabilities, right? Neither the iPod Touch nor the iPad require a monthly data fee. Such a fee is an option for the iPad, if you want to connect without WiFi; and of course it's not even an option for the Touch, otherwise it would be an iPhone LOL.

I used to have a Palm PIM in the late 90s. I used it for a lot of things, even reading on the train. Well, the iPhone experience totally blows it away. I use my iPhone for blood pressure tracking, to track my running workouts, to read articles I've bookmarked in my browser, to read books, plus about 20 other uses, not to mention listening to music.

The iPod Touch would probably work well for you and there is no monthly data plan. Just use it at home with WiFi or on the road at WiFi hotspots. You can get one refurbished from Apple for $149.

 

[Phog Allen]

Ah, I thought iPad was sold with necessary data plan. My mistake. Honestly though chaps, I cannot stress this enough. I am NOT interested in a $500 Apple product. Or any other brand for that matter. This is way more than I want to lay out for a fancy PIM/internet device. I know Apple has its fans but not for me, not at that price point. I know the 8gb iPod touch is hovering around 175-200 dollars new. The larger models are twice that. I hadn't seen the refurbs.

Even then, it is twice to three times the price of a used ATT 8525 on the bay. This is much more toward what we are thinking of. It has touch screen, wifi, PIM, camera, micro sd card slot, bluetooth, etc. And it comes at prices that don't leave you with heartburn if it craps out in a year or gets stolen.

Quite stupidly I missed two chances at decent condition 8525s this morning and this afternoon. The first went for 42 dollars and change and my bid would have won it. I forgot to hit "confirm". The second one I missed just because I got distracted and let the auction expire. It only went for $45. So there are bargains out there. Then again, you might buy it and it won't turn on. Just one of the pitfalls of Scambay.

Regards, Todd

 

[Ruck]

small problem... I can't find the charger for my old Q. This morning I remembered I'd said I would check it out for you, but no juice = no test. I'll keep looking, though.

 

[Ruck]

Hey guys. Just a heads up. Unless I am missing it in the specs, the Q does NOT sport wifi capabilities without a 3rd party adapter. This is not going to be in the running if that is the case. Maybe a later model did?

Regards, Todd

Oh, copy that. No I don't think it handles wifi. Again, been a while.... but I'm fairly certain it doesn't do that. I had it in my head that you were looking for a PDA phone with the phone portion turned off, for use in syncing via USB cable to PC. Never mind, no goal!

 

[DavyRay]

I have not used the PIM features of the Android phone very much at all. I have been on mandatory overtime since I got the thing. I downloaded the SDK, and have not even made time to explore it. My phone is a Nexus One.

I think the show-stopper for you will be the GPS. Google Maps works just fine so long as I have a network connection, wifi or cell. I have not tried to see what it could do on the road with the cell data turned off. I suspect that all it would be able to give you is coordinates, not maps. The maps are downloaded as needed. They can be slow to download where only gprs data service is available. I do not know of a way to download a full set of maps for use without a network connection. It should be possible, but I have not tried.

Other PIM features are synced to the Google cloud. Your contacts and calendar items sync with your Google account when you are network-connected. That would be when you have wifi, in the no-cell-account mode. That may be acceptable.

There are ways to try this. I have a friend at work who had a phone which came with Windows Mobile on it. Some friends of his helped him set it up to boot from the SD card, so he was running Android on it. It worked very well. I don't know which devices can be hacked to boot Android from media, so do not know how expensive they would be. Most Android devices I know of are pricey.

You need to find some Android hackers to talk to. I could be one, but do not have the time for it at present (what am I doing here, in that case?).

 

[DavyRay]

I have a few PDAs you can have for postage, if you are interested. The Handspring Neo is pretty cool, as it takes AAA batteries. That means no old, weak rechargeable battery to replace. Also have a couple of Palms that still charge up okay.

I even have a Palm Pilot, but you will need a DB9 serial port to sync it. Most laptops don't have those anymore.