I have read many posts on natural stones but?

[H Brad Boonshaft]

You may be right on the grits but with the Shapton 500 and light pressure you can quickly smooth out the stria pattern of an India stone in a few laps. Though I do believe the grit finish is close.

I am usually sharpening VG10 kitchen knives, my bride has a set of 3 that are hard and chip easily. The India cuts faster than the 500 on VG10 and the 500 finishes better on those knives.

On Carbon steel I skip the Indian and go from 500 to 1k King and deburr on 3k Suehiro.

On Arks the Indian laps much better, because the 500 sticks to the stone.

 

[Empire straights]

You may be right on the grits but with the Shapton 500 and light pressure you can quickly smooth out the stria pattern of an India stone in a few laps. Though I do believe the grit finish is close.

I am usually sharpening VG10 kitchen knives, my bride has a set of 3 that are hard and chip easily. The India cuts faster than the 500 on VG10 and the 500 finishes better on those knives.

On Carbon steel I skip the Indian and go from 500 to 1k King and deburr on 3k Suehiro.

On Arks the Indian laps much better, because the 500 sticks to the stone.

I've used circle on fine India stones for chip removal. I've used them like a file on axes for small chips too. Some of the old ones I've got are so hard they work well as a file because I doubt I'll ever put a belly in it, those suckers are tough. I keep a combo India and a black ark in the car for tools when I'm working on the road.

 

[Steve56]

That's interesting, cos I would have the SG500 as being a little coarser than a Fine India. Like Steve I'd put it around 600-800.

I did some quite extensive tests on it a while back, for a comparative review that I'm yet to write up, and for me the SG500 sits around the level of a Medium India.

(Or is it more that you're using the India for chip removal cos it's so hard it's basically never going to wear out or dish?)

I agree. The India stone depends on the finish, much like a hard Ark, and other hard stones. They made India in different grits too IIRC.

The advantage of the India stone is that they are dirt cheap and last forever. Not so the coarse SG if you go at them with chip removal and geometry correction on knives. But they do work very well!

If I have to sharpen my lawn mower blades, it’s going to be a Crystolon/India, not a Shapton Glass. That said, there was a fellow who finished iff his mower blades with a SG 30k. He is definitely hardcore.

 

[silverlifter]

That said, there was a fellow who finished iff his mower blades with a SG 30k

https://imgur.com/WOu522j

 

[Steve56]

Can’t watch it but I think that I like it.

 

[psfred]

I would use something finer than 500 grit for removing chips in VG-10. It's brittle, coarse stones are likely to cause micro-cracks that turn into tiny chips when the knife is used.

I'd use my 800 grit Bester to get most of the chips out, then the 1200 to actually produce the apex.

VG-10 will not tolerate rotating the knife while in contact with a cutting board, if your wife uses them like French mono-steel knives and rock chops, I'd get different knives for her. Up to you if you want to help her correct her knife usage, lol.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yea…after 43 years don’t think she is going to change. She likes the size (5.5”) and weight of those knives. 2 identical Shun Premier Santoku and a Nakiri

We have 2 drawers of pristine vintage Sabs, Wushof, Russell, Onterio and handful of Japanese in wood blocks.

But the girl can cook, so once a week or two, the three see the stones, it only takes a few minutes per knife and she always has a sharp knife at hand.

Life is much easier if you pick your battles, at least for me.

I do most of the chopping with a Deba, vintage Onion Damascus Kai or lately my new favorite a CCK, Chinese cleaver that also sees the stones at the same time and is a snap to hone.

 

[psfred]

Lol, I get that. Good thing you like to sharpen knives!

I would try using a finer stone even though it takes longer, Shun seems to make VG-10 more brittle than Tojiro. I have chipped a Tojiro though, but not my big knife. Might make them a bit more chip resistant.

What is she using for a cutting board? End grain maple or walnut is the easiest on knife edges. Bamboo is murder on edges.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

If this is the "test" I'm thinking of,
1. They only used one stone of each type
2. They made no mention of how the surface of the stone was lapped and dressed (beyond being "broken in" with a knife)
3. The black and translucent were only in the mid-2.5 range for SG

I'll let the reader decide which of those factors would impact the "results" of the "test" the most.

Online sellers can call their product “surgical black” and it is full of sediment, bubble-like pockmarks, and all other kinds of inclusions. It will probably deliver a very nice knife edge and not cost as much as a Dan’s.

Dan’s is not selling any 2.5 sg black or translucent. I have a 2.55 sg Dan’s hard. Fantastic knife finisher. Lots of bite. Where I don’t want “bite” is on my razors, and there is no getting around the “quality” conundrum when it comes to razors.

I’m just glad the writers of that article included the sg#. Immediately I know how much weight to give the results.

 

[Empire straights]

I agree. The India stone depends on the finish, much like a hard Ark, and other hard stones. They made India in different grits too IIRC.

The advantage of the India stone is that they are dirt cheap and last forever. Not so the coarse SG if you go at them with chip removal and geometry correction on knives. But they do work very well!

If I have to sharpen my lawn mower blades, it’s going to be a Crystolon/India, not a Shapton Glass. That said, there was a fellow who finished iff his mower blades with a SG 30k. He is definitely hardcore.

India combo stones are some of the best tool stones out there for taking out chips/ reprofiling. I've got several that I like very much for that. I put a fine edge on my shovels and hoes so I don't have to swing so hard through tree roots.

 

[Jakebullet]

When I started honing about five years ago, a very helpful Englishman called Gary Haywood sent me an eBay link to 5 inch x 1.5 inch piece of Welsh slate as a starter to trying a natural stone.
It cost £14 and came with a rubbing stone.
Took me a bit to learn how to hone on it as it’s small and took my a while to work out how to get the best edge from it.
The main thing was getting the surface smooth and right and that’s where a few slurries made with the rubbing stone came in useful.
Then lots of razor laps under running water added a subtle glaze which really seemed to bring it into its own. Prep done.
Now to sharpen a razor I just hold it under trickling water and go back and forth until the razor sticks.
Then I stop.
It usually sticks in about 50 laps.
I get excellent shaving edges off this little stone and still use it regularly.
It leaves a great post shave feel which lasts all day as the edge is as smooth and sharp as with any other stone I’ve got.
I haven’t lapped it in years as I like the finish it now has and i only use light razor laps on it now and again when I have to.
I bought an 8x3 slate which is slightly different, it was listed at around 15k but who knows or cares.
What I like about this one is that I can use it as I do my jnat.
I can set a bevel on a King 1k stone then make a slurry on the slate using a diamond plate.
Honing on this slurry gets rid of the 1k scratches, then I make a new thin slurry with the rubbing stone and hone on that.
I finish with a few laps under trickling water and get a great edge.
It’s the same process and result I get with my Kiita jnat but my jnat cost around £200 and the big slate was £40.
All stones are different so you have to take your chance as I did, but the Welsh slates are what I’d recommend to someone as a start into natural stones.