I have read many posts on natural stones but?

[lightfoot]

I use a large variety of vintage and new SRs. I restore and maintain them myself. I started out with a tght progression of films.

Just to toss in yet another approach: I now bevel set and hone on synthetic Superstones to Naniwa 12k, then finish on a pasted diamond (Tech Diamond Tools paste) balsa strop progression (50k/0.5u > 100k/0.25u > 200k/0.1u).

I follow this with stropping on clean fabric and leather before shaving, and regret it if I neglect to strop on leather.

I am starting to explore using naturals just for curiosity sake. I am completely happy with my current edges. I have also experienced a wide variety of natural edges from other B&B members. They were in most cases excellent edges, but not revelatory.



So pasted balsa may get you where you want to be after the Shapton. Easy and inexpensive solution for me, but the hobby aspects of finishing are sucking me and my wallet into naturals.

I’ve often found that even if a fully synthetic edge is a bit extreme on the first or second shave it will eventually calm down by the third shave in my experience at least.

Hopefully this might alleviate any trepidation from the OP about staying with a fully synthetic set up for a while.

 

[Gamma]

I read comments that it would be good to go to a natural stone instead of going forward with synthetic stones. I have the Shapton Pro 5k, 8k and 12k.


I would add a 1.5k Shapton Pro to that lineup.

 

[papi]

I’ve been shaving well by going up to a polishing compound on a rigid surface and do two or three dozen strokes on a black Arkansas stone. Great results for sure.

If I buy Arkansas stones from Dan’s I generally don’t flatten them beyond factory.

You really do have to dress the corners of the stones a good bit with either a diamond plate, sandpaper, or a combination of the two but I don’t try to flatten them out any further.

Then I will take a razor I don’t care about and just run it across the surface for 20 minutes at least.

You can also go up to 400-600 wet dry sandpaper as well. But again I don’t attempt any additional flattening.

excellent and In this day and market I think they are fair priced. thanks

 

[lightfoot]

I read comments that it would be good to go to a natural stone instead of going forward with synthetic stones. I have the Shapton Pro 5k, 8k and 12k.


I would add a 1.5k Shapton Pro to that lineup.

^this^ 100%!

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Keep in mind that Shapton uses their own grit rating and their 12K is actually closer to a 7K. In my opinion it is a quality set up stone for a final finisher but for me it is not a finisher on its own. A quality Ark or JNAT is very noticeable step up.

 

[life2short1971]

If you would like a sharp comfortable edge put on your razor I would be happy to hone a blade or two for you. Just pm me for my address and take care of roundtrip shipping costs.
I hone with a 4k and 8k Shapton glass CS, a 12k Naniwa 2271, an unknown natural I picked up on ebay and Dovo type black paste on denim for the finish.
That will buy you some time to decide what you would like.

Scott

 

[Gamma]

Any Japanese synth stone over 8k would, by default, be given an 'interpreted' grit.
Every manufacturer has their own interpretation because JIS only goes to 8k.

Shapton's Pro 12k, or 15k depending on where it is marketed for, is a .98 µm @ D50 stone.
Totally acceptable to call it a 12k stone.

That puts is solidly above the JIS 8k mark. Current JIS standard for 8k is D50 average @ 1.2 µm. I think the acceptable range of particles @ D50 for 8000 JIS is .9-1.5.
Everything is based on percentages and averages though, typical for 8000 is 1.2 µm.
Depending on which scale from the standard is used, the numbers can be different.
The differences are due, in part, to newer/alternate methods used to determine particle size.
An older JIS scale will show 8000/8k @ 2.0 µm

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“Would I need to lap this stone in a progression of grits and wet sandpapers to make a very smooth flat glass-like surface surface before I do that?”


If you find an old stone that feels fine and smooth put a razor on it and try it. Many old hard Arks that are oil soaked and well used are burnished from years of use and will produce fine shaving edges.

So, I always try the stone on a pristine Snow White or Super Stone 12k edge. What’s the worst that can happen? The stone is not finer than an 8 or 12k and you just need to reset the edge on the 8K.

Naturals come in a variety of hardness, Jnat, Coticules and Slates are mostly soft, softer than synthetic and can be lapped with 220 wet & dry or diamond plate.

Arks, and other “Novelties” are super hard, and if needed will need to be flattened and smoothed with loose Silicone Carbide, and a STEEL cookie sheet from the Dollar store, or boxes of Wet and Dry, you will burn through a lot of 60-grit paper to flatten an Ark.

You can buy a full progression of Silicone Carbide for $15 from GotGrit.com from 60-500. 60 grit will get you flat quickest. Once flat and smooth at 60 grit you can alter the stone face easily with a progression of grit a few minutes on each grit. Once you get to 500-600 you can switch to Wet & Dry.

The goal is to remove any high and low spots and make the stone smooth. A low spot will not be smooth and as the stone wears the rough low spot will ruin the edge. Some folks obsess about “Dead Flat”, but I just want it smooth, Dead Flat is a moving target as the stone is constantly wearing. Nothing wrong with dead flat, but not needed.

You only need to lap a hard stone once, once smooth it is done. I do not use oil on Arks, except Smith water based honing solution or 50/50 Windex and water on soft or Washitas.

 

[papi]

If you would like a sharp comfortable edge put on your razor I would be happy to hone a blade or two for you. Just pm me for my address and take care of roundtrip shipping costs.
I hone with a 4k and 8k Shapton glass CS, a 12k Naniwa 2271, an unknown natural I picked up on ebay and Dovo type black paste on denim for the finish.
That will buy you some time to decide what you would like.

Scott

Thank you for the generous offer. I may look you up on that in the future. I have to experiment a little more. I have to be honest, and say I can only do a little bit at a time. Much appreciated.

 

[papi]

“Would I need to lap this stone in a progression of grits and wet sandpapers to make a very smooth flat glass-like surface surface before I do that?”


If you find an old stone that feels fine and smooth put a razor on it and try it. Many old hard Arks that are oil soaked and well used are burnished from years of use and will produce fine shaving edges.

So, I always try the stone on a pristine Snow White or Super Stone 12k edge. What’s the worst that can happen? The stone is not finer than an 8 or 12k and you just need to reset the edge on the 8K.

Naturals come in a variety of hardness, Jnat, Coticules and Slates are mostly soft, softer than synthetic and can be lapped with 220 wet & dry or diamond plate.

Arks, and other “Novelties” are super hard, and if needed will need to be flattened and smoothed with loose Silicone Carbide, and a STEEL cookie sheet from the Dollar store, or boxes of Wet and Dry, you will burn through a lot of 60-grit paper to flatten an Ark.

You can buy a full progression of Silicone Carbide for $15 from GotGrit.com from 60-500. 60 grit will get you flat quickest. Once flat and smooth at 60 grit you can alter the stone face easily with a progression of grit a few minutes on each grit. Once you get to 500-600 you can switch to Wet & Dry.

The goal is to remove any high and low spots and make the stone smooth. A low spot will not be smooth and as the stone wears the rough low spot will ruin the edge. Some folks obsess about “Dead Flat”, but I just want it smooth, Dead Flat is a moving target as the stone is constantly wearing. Nothing wrong with dead flat, but not needed.

You only need to lap a hard stone once, once smooth it is done. I do not use oil on Arks, except Smith water based honing solution or 50/50 Windex and water on soft or Washitas.

Thanks for the instructions. I like Smith's solution, especially with diamond sharpeners. I used to save all the swarf when I ground my synthetic oil stones flat. I would let it dry out and use it to flatten stones on glass. I did that until I realized you can buy silicone grit. LOL
On one job they strip treated glass from commercial doors and the glass is free because they throw it out. I have a stack of tempered glass to use for flattening. When and if the glass wears, hit with a hammer and it disintegrates to little specks.
Ok, thanks to everyone. it has been a pleasure!

 

[life2short1971]

Thank you for the generous offer. I may look you up on that in the future. I have to experiment a little more. I have to be honest, and say I can only do a little bit at a time. Much appreciated.

Your welcome

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Glass is soft, very soft and is not flat. Try lapping a piece of glass with 220 wet & dry, you will quickly see how soft and un-flat it is.

It is a good substrate to put a steel cookie sheet on, The steel will wear but nothing like Glass, Marble or Granite, and the cookie sheet will contain the messy swarf and the water.

Put the glass and cookie sheet on the floor and use your body weight to get the stone flat on 60 grit. Mark a grid with a sharpie, not pencil. Pencil will wash off with the grit. Once you can remove a sharpie grid in 10 laps or less you are flat enough.

 

[lightfoot]

I’ve found that the stones I’ve gotten from Dan’s have been dead flat against my straight edge. I haven’t found the need for additional flattening on those just dressing down the edges. Stones from other vendors or vintage stones are another story all together…

 

[Gamma]

I've had more than a few stones from Dan's that weren't flat. Best I might say is that they may have been 'flatter' than anything from NW ever was. I think it's hit/miss with any vendor though, and not a rule one way or another. Preyda was supposedly investing in machinery to ensure flatness of all stones....dunno how that panned out though.

 

[lightfoot]

Yeah, no doubt. Everything has to get checked one way or another no matter where it comes from.

 

[papi]

So, I have a new taste of natural stones, and it's a good feeling. No pun intended.
The mystery stone seems to be a Hindostan along with an old fine Arkansas stone I have been using for knives for over 35 years with oil.
I de-gressed both stones and lapped them a little this morning and I started honing an old razor that had 5000 grit shapton edge.
I honed the razor on both stones with soapy water and with a little slurry made by rubbing both stones together. I honed on the Hindostan first and then the fine Arkansas stone.

With a few skills, I have been learning since I started with straight razors, during the last 6 months with the help from everyone here.
I clearly see and feel that natural stones are a must, without a doubt, in order to get a nice finish edge.
I learned how to sharpen knives from my late Uncle who was a butcher. I have been using that fine Arkansas stone the way he taught me for over 35 years.
Using that same stone for a straight razor with the techniques learned from straight razors and synthetic stones is the difference between night and day.
The knives I sharpen from now on are at a higher level

I am definitely going to start out by getting an ultra-fine Arkansas stone and go to work with it.
Best regards.

 

[cugel]

I have a 220 and 1500 Shapton pro, the former for cutlery in poor condition. Then, if staying synthetic, I go to a 4k Naniwa Hayabusa then pre-fin and finishers. I am considering a Snow White Naniwa, especially for knives. I don’t know if the Snow White would be considered a razor finisher. I am not an expert by any means, but every synth I have used is easier to master than any of my Japanese, Belgian, and Ark stones.I would not recommend committing to naturals unless you are in it for the enjoyment of the process. I really enjoy honing razors and knives.

 

[papi]

I have a 220 and 1500 Shapton pro, the former for cutlery in poor condition. Then, if staying synthetic, I go to a 4k Naniwa Hayabusa then pre-fin and finishers. I am considering a Snow White Naniwa, especially for knives. I don’t know if the Snow White would be considered a razor finisher. I am not an expert by any means, but every synth I have used is easier to master than any of my Japanese, Belgian, and Ark stones.I would not recommend committing to naturals unless you are in it for the enjoyment of the process. I really enjoy honing razors and knives.

Same here, I have been sharpening everything possible all of my life since a boy. hand saws, chain saws, drill bits axes, knives, chisels, and planner blades, you name it.
As you know I am new with straight razors.
I am not going crazy with spending money, because I can't. I am thinking of a 4 X 2 ultra-fine Arkansas stone, that's all and experiment after the Sharpton pro 12K and then compound with stropping.
Although the 12000 Naniwa Super Stone 12000 is excellent for straight razors, I hear.
Cheers!

 

[life2short1971]

Same here, I have been sharpening everything possible all of my life since a boy. hand saws, chain saws, drill bits axes, knives, chisels, and planner blades, you name it.
As you know I am new with straight razors.
I am not going crazy with spending money, because I can't. I am thinking of a 4 X 2 ultra-fine Arkansas stone, that's all and experiment after the Sharpton pro 12K and then compound with stropping.
Although the 12000 Naniwa Super Stone 12000 is excellent for straight razors, I hear.
Cheers!

Please consider at least a 6” ultra fine Ark unless your razors are all 5/8 and smaller.

 

[Legion]

Please consider at least a 6” ultra fine Ark unless your razors are all 5/8 and smaller.

+1. A 4” stone will be tricky to use, especially when you are new. One dud stroke on a hard Ark can cause your edge all sorts of damage. Pay the extra for 6”