IMightBeWrong
Loves a smelly brush
I don’t mind tape for a Unicot but taping is generally not useful to me. It has its place for specific applications but always honing with tape is silly.
Hone with tape or without
- Thread starter Luecke2326
- Start date
[Underlining added.]
I have not used a Kamisori, so I can't speak from personal experience there, but I have never taped a spine while stropping. My sense is that there is more give in the strop than on a stone's surface, so both the spine and edge will still be acted upon, in spite of tape being used in honing. And one can also adjust the tension of the strop as needed.
That said, I don't like to tape while honing as a rule. I feel it interferes with the tactile feedback, apart from introducing a secondary bevel. However, sort of like ekretz above, I will use tape to remove serious chips with a more aggressive stone, before switching to no tape during the bevel-setting stage. Wedge razors I will also tape as the entire face will be affected otherwise. I also have a pet theory that wedges may have been honed more like knives, or very mildly bread-knifed back in the day. So taping there sort of mimics this.
As for leather balms, I wouldn't use one unless it is necessary or if the strop has become quite dried out. Many contain waxes in suspension and the application will significantly change the feedback after application. In the States, upon a local shoe repairman's recommendation, I have successfully used Meltonian leather balm on a couple of old barber's strops that needed some nourishment. Here in France, upon a similar recommendation, I've also used a balm made by Grison on a Scrupleworks horsehide that was starting to wear patchy in places. This changed the character of the strop and made it slicker than before, but it does work well and with continued use, its original character has finally started to return.
Others more knowledgeable than me will perhaps say use nothing but palm-rubbing, which is of course the safest bet. Another is to brush tallow-based lather onto the strop surface and let this dry out overnight before rubbing this in with your palms or with a dedicated burnisher for scrapers or with the polished shank of a screwdriver. I can't speak to the shoe cream you mention other than to say give it a try on a test piece or in a tiny, inconspicuous area first to see what happens. A few years back, I picked up a small Horween cordovan piece from Jarrod at TSS; and when the surface started to dull a little and become patchy, he sent me a small vial of carnauba wax for automobiles, and that did the trick quite nicely.
I don't have a Kamasori razor...so take my advice with that in mind. But with a folding straight I don't strop with tape. I do know (because I have been reading up on Kamasori razors) that they require some particular attention when honing.
You don't use tape to strop even if you used one to hone.
Rusty and Alex...thank you !
I do recommend that beginners should use tape until they can hone without wearing through the tape.
+1 Great advise
Near wedge apparently coming. I've honed a couple that were very successful. Now I need to use tape. I have good quality electrical and painters tape. Was thinking about two layers. I am using lapping film Any thoughts?
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
My approach with a near wedge is to attempt to hone without tape until the finish, then because the bevel will be so darn wide and honing to a finish is so difficult, I add tape for the finish. On a full wedge this is a LOT of work and should only be done once in a very long time. Then usually a piece of tape is needed to make a good bevel, and two layers for the finish. Different razors will be different razors. What works beautifully for one might not be ideal for another. That said, I don't like honing full wedges at all and I only mess with very near wedges when it is a very special razor. There are other honers much more expert than me on wedges who will possibly have a different opinion. But I feel that many decades of honing with the spine lifted can really do funny things to a blade, and it is good every half century or so (I guess) to start fresh, with a true bevel based at or near the spine. This will be a VERY acute bevel angle, typically. Wedges I believe were originally meant to be honed with the spine elevated. Now, we use tape for that. Then, a fingernail to check the honing angle now and again, and careful freehand honing, like with a knife. Anyway, such an acute bevel angle and such a huge honed surface are recipes for honing disaster/frustration. So, it is often necessary to tape, to set the final bevel, and even add another layer to set a microbevel at the finish. Such a microbevel is easy to maintain, since the bevel width is small. The bevel angle of the microbevel should be somewhere close to the sweet spot, too.
Others will disagree, but I find such razors sort of a PITA and offer me little extra reward for the extra work. Also the honing grates against my particular sensibilities regarding precision in honing. YMMV. Lots of guys love honing them and shaving with them.
When I think of a near wedge I am not thinking of a quarter hollow, which is obviously meant to be honed normally, with the spine on the hone. However, after many decades of use and honing a quarter hollow begins to appear and behave more like a near wedge due to wear, with the hollowgrind getting narrower and narrower between the widening bevels of edge and spine. These, I usually give to someone more appreciative. A quarter hollow that still resembles a quarter hollow I have no problem with honing, keeping, and using, and I hone them the same as any other hollowground.
Others will disagree, but I find such razors sort of a PITA and offer me little extra reward for the extra work. Also the honing grates against my particular sensibilities regarding precision in honing. YMMV. Lots of guys love honing them and shaving with them.
When I think of a near wedge I am not thinking of a quarter hollow, which is obviously meant to be honed normally, with the spine on the hone. However, after many decades of use and honing a quarter hollow begins to appear and behave more like a near wedge due to wear, with the hollowgrind getting narrower and narrower between the widening bevels of edge and spine. These, I usually give to someone more appreciative. A quarter hollow that still resembles a quarter hollow I have no problem with honing, keeping, and using, and I hone them the same as any other hollowground.
Thank you. The seller who I got the Wade and Butcher from says he uses two layers of tape. I do understand the basis for tape with wedges and near wedges. I posted a photo on my thread asking if the one I have coming is a wedge or near wedge.
The only difficult part of honing a wedge, near wedge, etc - is clearing rotten steel and being sure that you are in 'good steel' before proceeding. That part is, most definitely, for me anyway, the lion's share of the work. The rest is easy.
Usually, when the good steel arrives, the bevel is also set, so that's a plus. No guarantees there, you have to know, and not assume. Excessive wear on the blade, esp the spine, can complicate things, but not all that much really.
It's just a razor and it's just honing.
I've yet to see a bevel so wide that it made life so much more difficult that I'd avoid honing it.
Usually, when the good steel arrives, the bevel is also set, so that's a plus. No guarantees there, you have to know, and not assume. Excessive wear on the blade, esp the spine, can complicate things, but not all that much really.
It's just a razor and it's just honing.
I've yet to see a bevel so wide that it made life so much more difficult that I'd avoid honing it.
Good to know and thank you, @Gamma.
No tape on a kamisori, either to hone or strop.
I used tape only to create a secondary bevel on my MK42 after setting the bevel, and it's getting pretty close to wedge territory.
But I'd suggest that instead of the electrical tape, you get some Kapton tape. It's really tough and really thin, and doesn't compress. Under a 'scope I can see that the micro bevel isn't very acute, but comes at least halfway up the primary bevel, so very thin tape, like between 1/4 and 1/2 of electrical tape.
Not expensive, Amazon territory.
I used tape only to create a secondary bevel on my MK42 after setting the bevel, and it's getting pretty close to wedge territory.
But I'd suggest that instead of the electrical tape, you get some Kapton tape. It's really tough and really thin, and doesn't compress. Under a 'scope I can see that the micro bevel isn't very acute, but comes at least halfway up the primary bevel, so very thin tape, like between 1/4 and 1/2 of electrical tape.
Not expensive, Amazon territory.
Thank you. I couldn't remember that other type. I'll try to find some Kapton.
I always honed my Dovos and my Theirs Issards without tape and always got pretty good results. Then one day I bought a Hart Steel razor. Hart Steel razors are wedges. I never managed to get the edge sharp enough for me. Then one day I was reading their honing recommendations on their web site. They said they always use one layer of electrical tape. So I tried it and voilà. Now my Hart razors are my go to razors. They give me incredible shaves, better than any of my other razors. I still hone my Dovos and my Theirs Issards without tape. I'm guessing the tape is something peculiar to wedges.
Two of the best razor artisans out there today (Brian Brown-Brown Razor Works and Ulrik Beyer-Koraat) use tape.
Gives pause for thought.
Gives pause for thought.
Don't want to damage the spines on items they're selling.
+1 Well said.
Dovo do not use tape, and the spine shows some wear out of the box - they make quite a few razors I hear...
I might tape spines when stropping, but that is only to protect my strops. The spine is designed to wear with the edge, not going to fiddle with design basics.
