Help with honing a Dovo

[Rick1500]

A friend brought back a Dovo Barbarosa from Germany. It's my only Dovo and my only short razor. All my other razors are doing well finishing on a black shadow followed with a Arkansas translucent.
It came with a 14 deg bevel and loved shaving your face off, so I've rehoned it getting closer to a 16 deg bevel with tape.
But I'm still not as pleased with the shave as I am with my other razors.

Any tips or advice on getting a smoother shave with this one. It's not an unpleasant shave but still no where near that ' Ahhh, that's a noice one' like my others.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Wid]

You only used the black shadow and ark? Did you reset the bevel?

 

[Rick1500]

I reset the bevel and rehoned it with 3 layers of tape to get the 16 deg bevel.

I use a 1K cerex, 3K naniwa, 5K cerex, Rosutec, black shadow, Ark translucent. I'm using oil on the BS and Ark

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

First post a photo, both sides of your razor for better advice.

Was the Dovo new?

 

[Steve56]

Pics would help, especially the edge. Make sure that the hone is hitting the middle of the bevel on both sides. Sharpie the edge and do 1-2 light passes on your finisher. 16-17 degrees should shave very smoothly.

 

[Rick1500]

It was bought new. It has a few shaves on it now.
Here's both sides and then a couple closer pics on side B.
I haven't redone the marker on the edge again yet.

 

[Rick1500]

Sorry for the lackluster quality pics, I thought I had taken some others with that microscope which came out better, not sure what I did different this time.
The edge is on the rough side but since I have a couple of others that shave well with the same edge I wasn't sure if that was it or not.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

We need to see photos of the whole razor’s blade from heel to toe and edge to spine.

Modern Dovo’s from the factory usually need some repair. Without seeing your razor, it is impossible to see if your razor needs repair, so that it can be honed and to advise you why your razor will not take an edge.

Photograph the whole razor blade as clearly as possible. A clear cell phone photo is adequate.

“A friend brought back a Dovo Barbarosa from Germany. It's my only Dovo and my only short razor.”

What do you mean by “Short Razor”?

 

[duke762]

I'm freaking out about the 3 layers of tape. Double check the dimensions and math maybe?

 

[Rick1500]

I was also surprised on the 3 layers of tape (7mil x 3 =.021 thick), very possibly I'm still wrong. Here's the before/after bevel calcs. I just used the middle of the razor specs for an avg.

Original came out to 14.2 deg
After/ asin((.1920/2)/.6860) * 180 /pi = 8.02 deg/side x 2 = 16.04 deg bevel

My guess is this Barbarosa was designed a little shorter with a super sharlp bevel and toe for ultra fine shaping.
The first time I used it I thought I was going to need a blood transfusion, it defiinitely caught me off guard.

Now it's less intimidating but still isn't where my others are.

 

[tanvir]

I was also surprised on the 3 layers of tape (7mil x 3 =.021 thick), very possibly I'm still wrong. Here's the before/after bevel calcs. I just used the middle of the razor specs for an avg.

Original came out to 14.2 deg
After/ asin((.1920/2)/.6860) * 180 /pi = 8.02 deg/side x 2 = 16.04 deg bevel

My guess is this Barbarosa was designed a little shorter with a super sharlp bevel and toe for ultra fine shaping.
The first time I used it I thought I was going to need a blood transfusion, it defiinitely caught me off guard.
View attachment 1795696

I think more experienced people will chime in but the way I do it, the width measurements are too wide. Width should be measured from the edge to the inner side (the side toward the edge) where the spine meet the stone. Hone wear line but not toward spine but toward the edge. It may turn out that this Dovo is within or very close to desired angle.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I think @tanvir is correct. This is a 5/8" razor, right? Measure from the apex to the top of the spinewear, it should be closer to 0.6" depending on how much has been honed off.

 

[Rick1500]

Great info, just measuring to the hone wear didn't cross my mind, got tunnel vision I guess.
I'll remeasure and see.

 

[Rick1500]

So glad I came to ya'll for this problem. Guess I got into the habit of measuring the width top to btm on some other razor previously and may have not even thought about these with higher splines.

Yes, that is my present problem, the actual height is .60 with a factory edge of 16.3 deg

Well, at least now I know what an 18.3 deg shaves like which I probably never would have tried to do on purpose.
So now I'll go back reset the bevel (double checking the edge with a marker, which I originally did but can't remember the results)

Advice is still apprecitated going into the rehone because if I remember correctly I had originally rehoned it without tape and still didn't get the edge I was pleased with which is what got me into incorrectly checking the bevel.

I'll find out soon as I finish honing this Russian razor I'm about to finish (curious to see if they shave as well as some have said)
Be back soon with the results

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The good news is that the razor appears to be well ground from the factory with very little warp.

I has been heavily honed without tape that has caused excessive spine wear. Honing on a single layer of tape will compensate for the steel loss and prevent more damage.

The bevel was never fully set and the deep 1k stria was not completely removed, causing the ragged edge. You will need to recut a new bevel and cut a shallower bevel than the 3-tape bevel. Watch your tape and replace at the slightest burn through.

The heel and toe are not fully honed, likely honed with straight strokes. You will need to recut a new bevel and cut a shallower bevel. Watch your tape and replace at the slightest burn through.

A rolling X stroke will get the toe honed, and some heel leading strokes will get the heel fully honed. Your heel bevel should go around the heel corner about 25% of the radius.

Stay off the tang, use a slower more controlled stroke so you do not ride up on the tang.

The jump from 5k to Rosutec or the Black Shadow may be a bit of an ask, you would be much better off with a good 8k or 10k and finish on the Ark, assuming all your stone have been properly lapped.

 

[Rick1500]

Thanks Brad I appreciate the tips, I'm always grateful for ways to improve my honing.

I just finished setting the new bevel before I saw your post.
Normally I do X strokes on all my razors but since this one is short you're correct, I did straight strokes and I was wondering how the heel done that way was going to affect the shave, I'll start the X strokes on the next stone to help make up for it.
I agree that I need to stay off the tang.

For some reason I just really don't like to mess with tape so I try not to use it when possible. I'll never get rid of this razor so I don't mind the hone wear on it which is a good thing because I put more on it going back to the 16 deg bevel.
I should've went with the tape this time though, it's a little more wear than I prefer. I misjudged how many strokes it was going to take to get the new bevel set.

I think I may have used my old King 1/6k combo on this razor which caused the deep stria. I used the cerex 1k this time, it sets a much smoother bevel.
Yes, I lap each stone with a Dmt plate.

I've had good luck going from the 5k to the rozsutec, they claim it's close to a 6 - 8K grit, I use a slurry with it and so far I can't complain with the other razors in the present rotation.
The Russian razor I just finished was definitely one of the top smoothest shavers I have now. Finishing with the translucent has been wonderful for the edge I've been looking for.

I did have to work out a touch of warping, I'm posting pics of the pre hone and the new hone each after using a marker and two light strokes on each.


The top two pics are the 18 deg bevel

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The bevels look better at 1k, except for that spot near the heel (Red Arrow) and the toe on the other side, you may have a slight frown on the edge.

The heel and that spot will need to be repaired, it is an easy fix, search Heel Repair/Reprofiling.

You are putting massive wear on the spine, tape the spine until you have mastered honing. You have already needlessly worn away so much steel that you have altered the bevel angle and it will take at least a layer of tape or two to make up for the loss.

“I've had good luck going from the 5k to the rozsutec, they claim it's close to a 6 - 8K grit, I use a slurry with it and so far I can't complain with the other razors in the present rotation.”

In the photos you posted the 5k stria was not removed by the Rozsutec, and much of the 1k stria was not removed by the 5k.

All new honers that get an edge to shave think, they have produced a good edge, if it shaves. But there are way better edges in your future if you slow down a little and refine the bevels and edge.

It is much easier to learn on a synthetic progression and finish on a natural than a natural stone of unknow grit. Be very wary of anyone that grit rates a natural stone. They are natural rocks, they have no idea what or what grit is in each stone. Most stones perform differently from one side to another, your Rozsutec and mine may be wildly different.

Do yourself a favor Tape the Spine with at least a single layer of tape and get a good 8 or 10k. Your shaves will be dramatically better.

Google (My Second Try at Honing), it is a new honers post, honing an eBay beater to shave ready. Make your bevels look like his at the different stones in the progression. It was the second razor he had honed. Note the 12k bevel and edge.

This is what your 1k edge should look like.

Your 5k should look better than this 4k edge.

 

[Rick1500]

Great information Brad
I've got both searches cued up to go over and will apply the tape this go round.

Thanks again for all the help

 

[Rick1500]

I've taken some of the heel down, I hesitate to do more since I've already removed too much overall.

Here's the newest pics after setting the bevel again and doing two light strokes with after marking the edge, still using the Cerex 1K. I'll probably post a similar stria pic with each stone for future reference sake and any advice you or any others would like to share.

 

[Rick1500]

Update on the Dovo Barbosa rehone;
Thanks to all, I've focused a little more on the honing process due to your help.

I've adjusted my stone progression and number of laps by using the microscope every 10 or so laps and recording the results for comparison.
I've dropped my Naniwa 3K, deep stria
Dropped the Roszutec and the Blue belgium for now also for same reason.
I've drastically reduced the number of laps on the remaining stones.
I was left with a big gap from the Cerex 5K to the Black Shadow, so I used an 8K stone for slurry and watered it down.
The oil on the Ark Trans still worked well but with a big reduction in laps.
Tomorrow is the shave test.

Next question. What makes the edge start to darken as the laps increase.

Cerex 1K rehone with 10 extra laps