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Home Intrusion - your #1 choice in firearms ?

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OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
The overwhelming majority of B&E situations are actually people entering a house they believe to be empty.


Ok?

B&E? That's a pretty broad term, which doesn't help to describe or differentiate between the specific intricacies of a typical property burglary or/and a home invasion? While it's true, most 'property theft' burglaries are done purposely during the day while people are at work or school by the type of perpetrators who only want to steal and not hurt someone they encounter? Ok, so they are the majority... Are you making a specific point? Nevertheless, There are Burglaries and there are Home Invasions. While a home invasion is a 'type' of 'burglary', the 'modus operandi' of a home invasion is a completely different kind of animal all together.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread and thread title speaks specifically on home intrusions? Which means when there is a forced intrusion where clearly the perpetrators know people are at home? I'm pretty sure, the OP gave a couple of specific scenario's in the OP that this specific subject matter and what type of self defense weapon would be chosen by those who would respond to a home intrusion which is occupied? in other words, a home invasion?

However, since you are speaking on 'the overwhelming majority' of B&E? let's look at some facts and statistics of both types shall we? :)

B&E: or Typical Property Theft

1. According to FBI statistics, a burglar strikes close to every 30 seconds in the US. Every 30.48 seconds to be exact. That adds up to two burglaries every minute and over 3,000 burglaries per day. Despite that, 'break-ins' (B&E) and burglaries, only came in as the second most mentioned property crime worry amongst home owners in America. Number #1 worry? Gun violence from the perpetrator's during the commission of the same. #1 worry by 'the majority' of home owners... Real or imagined?

2. The average financial loss from just a typical daytime burglary when people are at work or school, is $2,661 dollars. That might not sound like a lot of money to some, but if you're young and working hard, trying to move up in the world and are living check to check? A loss of almost $3,000 if your home is burglarized can be a big chunk of change. There is also other things to consider other than a monetary loss, what about the mental and emotional impact?

Most victims of the type of 'B&E' you describe; may very well need to recover from not just a financial setback, but at the same time they're mourning the loss of also, maybe things with a lot of sentimental value? they're also feeling insecure and dealing with the intense feelings of vulnerability, a lack of safety and a lack of sleep they once had before the break-in.

3. Most burglaries, or typical 'B&E' property crimes, usually happen in the middle of the day. While it might seem counter-intuitive to many, most burglaries occur in the bright light of day instead of under the cover of darkness. More specifically, if you’re wondering when most break-ins happen, it’s after lunch between noon and 4pm. FBI burglary data shows that of all reported residential burglaries, most occurred in the daytime compared to at night. But out of those evening burglaries? What time do most robberies occur at night? Studies have found the hours vary throughout the night until dawn.

4. Typical property only burglaries or B&E's are more frequent during the summer months. More people are burglarized during the month of June, then any other month.


Home Invasion:

Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a Home Invasion as such. the crime of entering a dwelling and committing or with intent to commit a crime (as assault) while armed and while another is lawfully present.



1. There are over 1.65 Million home invasions per year nation wide, which accounts for about 66% of all the 2.5 Million burglaries that happen every year according to the FBI. And while I'm sure that 66% includes both, those who purposely broke into a home that was occupied with the intent to do harm and those who broke into a home unknowingly if it was occupied is a moot point? because they can still turn violent, regardless of the perpetrators initial intentions.

2. During those, 38% of them end with some type of violent assault and/or rape, which rape occurs in 60% of those same home invasions.

3. Only 7.2% of those are committed by someone who knows the victims.

4. According to the Bureau of Justice, 1 in 5 violent home invasions, victims are seriously physically injured or killed.

5. Statistics show, home invasions decrease by 30% when there is some type of visible security devices installed in the home.

6. Homes without security systems are 300% more likely to be targeted for a home invasion.

7. Bureau of Justice statistics report, that during home invasions where the perpetrators are armed? Handguns are used in 41% of those incidents.




Most immediately run off with whatever they've managed to bag the moment they hear a person in the house. Those few that don't immediately run off will usually still avoid direct confrontation as they're almost always there for your valuables. That's why they teach women to yell "Bob, get the gun!" as soon as they hear what they believe to be a forced entry, even if their is no gun...even if their is no Bob.

Unexpected line of sight encounters are where most of the getting hurt happens for victim and perp alike.

While I don't know or clearly understand your intended point of interjecting the majority of typical day time property burglary statistics where only property is sought in a thread that specifically asks about types of weapons a home owner would use in a home intrusion? My only question would be, does the philosophical dynamic of a typical daytime burglary that you well-reasoned and statistically show are 'the majority' of all burglaries, nullify anything in this thread concerning the subject matter of an armed home invasion? Does it prove or counter the unlikelihood of a gun benefiting a resident in a home-invasion situation on a macro scale? Those who defend the right to own weapons for home protection, see the issue from a micro standpoint.

The way our social contract with the government works, is rights are afforded to individuals, specifically in this context; the right not only to own a weapon but also defend oneself. No matter the majority of statistics, or how unlikely, it has happened where criminals break in a house, maybe thinking no one is home, and yet, still commit violence against the home owner if they are present. In that scenario, those who defend the right to keep a weapon for home defense would argue that it is unreasonable to rely on the police to arrive in a timely enough manner to protect them and their families right to live.

All kinds of bad things happen because of this, including accidental shootings, or even purposeful homicide on the part of the homeowner (shooting a burglar as he runs away). All that being said, the fundamental defense is that the government nor any other institution can not interfere with one's right to protection. In a public setting it is reasonable to expect that protection to be supplied by the public (police or whatever), but in a private household that right to protection can not be reasonably supplied by the public, hence the advocacy for self-protection.

In America we aren't 'supposed' to sacrifice rights, even for the greater social good. We let death-row inmates who clearly committed murder appeal their decision a dozen times, at the expense of the taxpayers and society as a whole, because their rights trump the aggregate drain on societal capital (money, public lawyers, judges, whom all could be doing more pertinent work). The same emphasis on protecting an individuals right also applies to a law abiding citizen who wishes to have a fire arm to protect themselves.

While saying all this, the homeowner will never in the moment truly know the invaders intentions, and its not unreasonable to think that someone who purposefully put them in that situation at least gave up their right to safety.

I have responded to and worked many a home invasion in my time. And while the statistical majority were only property theft or didn't include serious injury from assault. I have seen my few where they indeed have. Many years ago, I responded to a home invasion where three armed males kicked in the front door of an elderly couple, hog tied them and gagged them both with duct tape, pistol whipping them both to an inch of their lives, while stealing all of their valuables and packing them into the couples vehicle which they also stole.

But before they left, they boiled a very large 'gumbo type' pot of water on the stove and poured that pot of water over the top of that tied up and gagged couple before they left. Only the elderly male survived the assault. I can only assume, if their odds would have been better; of not being apart of the 'statistical minority' if their front door would have been a solid core door, with a proper 3 inch bolt lock, that went into a solid door jamb which would have taken a few minutes longer and multiple more kicks to bash in?

Maybe that would have given them the needed extra time to grab a firearm, which they also didn't own; and possibly defend themselves? Statistics be damned? No one will ever know.
 
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jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
Something I haven't seen mentioned is selecting what you are most familiar with and most recently shot from a known place that's assured to be accessible.

Although home intrusions are uncommon were I live, they are not unknown and unfortunately it seems quite often happen at the unintended or incorrect house. So for me, my first line of firearm defense is the gun I was carrying that day and am still carrying until I go to bed. When I go to bed that same gun is on the bedside table in the same place every night.

In addition, I have no intention of clearing the house. If it's a daytime incident I will try to disengage, move away to a more defensible position and if it's a smash and grab, hope my insurance is up to date.

But the firearm is pretty far down the list of deterents, secondary metal framed storm rated glass doors and proper locks and multiple bolts on the primary door and external lighting and cameras and a standby power generator and multiple lines of communication and verbal control of interior lighting and indoor cameras with external cloud storage all contribute to earlier warnings and extended entry times.

I don't want to have to 'go get the gun' when needed.
 
What I find amazing where I live is the lack of awareness. We have neighbors that leave cars with computers and checkbooks unlocked. We have several homes where the garage doors are left open and the man door is left unlocked.

We have a routine when we go to bed. The cars are pulled in the garage and locked. We check all the doors and make sure everything is secure. In addition to that we have a security camera and all the doors are deadbolts. I have a variety of defense options and we have a plan if someone breaks in.

I have been in 2 armed robberies and wasn’t allowed to be armed. After the last one I felt it was worth the risk to get fired and I was armed regardless of company policy. I am not paranoid, I am prepared.
 
Ok?

B&E? That's a pretty broad term, which doesn't help to describe or differentiate between the specific intricacies of a typical property burglary or/and a home invasion? While it's true, most 'property theft' burglaries are done purposely during the day while people are at work or school by the type of perpetrators who only want to steal and not hurt someone they encounter? Ok, so they are the majority... Are you making a specific point? Nevertheless, There are Burglaries and there are Home Invasions. While a home invasion is a 'type' of 'burglary', the 'modus operandi' of a home invasion is a completely different kind of animal all together.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread and thread title speaks specifically on home intrusions? Which means when there is a forced intrusion where clearly the perpetrators know people are at home? I'm pretty sure, the OP gave a couple of specific scenario's in the OP that this specific subject matter and what type of self defense weapon would be chosen by those who would respond to a home intrusion which is occupied? in other words, a home invasion?

However, since you are speaking on 'the overwhelming majority' of B&E? let's look at some facts and statistics of both types shall we? :)

B&E: or Typical Property Theft

1. According to FBI statistics, a burglar strikes close to every 30 seconds in the US. Every 30.48 seconds to be exact. That adds up to two burglaries every minute and over 3,000 burglaries per day. Despite that, 'break-ins' (B&E) and burglaries, only came in as the second most mentioned property crime worry amongst home owners in America. Number #1 worry? Gun violence from the perpetrator's during the commission of the same. #1 worry by 'the majority' of home owners... Real or imagined?

2. The average financial loss from just a typical daytime burglary when people are at work or school, is $2,661 dollars. That might not sound like a lot of money to some, but if you're young and working hard, trying to move up in the world and are living check to check? A loss of almost $3,000 if your home is burglarized can be a big chunk of change. There is also other things to consider other than a monetary loss, what about the mental and emotional impact?

Most victims of the type of 'B&E' you describe; may very well need to recover from not just a financial setback, but at the same time they're mourning the loss of also, maybe things with a lot of sentimental value? they're also feeling insecure and dealing with the intense feelings of vulnerability, a lack of safety and a lack of sleep they once had before the break-in.

3. Most burglaries, or typical 'B&E' property crimes, usually happen in the middle of the day. While it might seem counter-intuitive to many, most burglaries occur in the bright light of day instead of under the cover of darkness. More specifically, if you’re wondering when most break-ins happen, it’s after lunch between noon and 4pm. FBI burglary data shows that of all reported residential burglaries, most occurred in the daytime compared to at night. But out of those evening burglaries? What time do most robberies occur at night? Studies have found the hours vary throughout the night until dawn.

4. Typical property only burglaries or B&E's are more frequent during the summer months. More people are burglarized during the month of June, then any other month.


Home Invasion:

Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a Home Invasion as such. the crime of entering a dwelling and committing or with intent to commit a crime (as assault) while armed and while another is lawfully present.



1. There are over 1.65 Million home invasions per year nation wide, which accounts for about 66% of all the 2.5 Million burglaries that happen every year according to the FBI. And while I'm sure that 66% includes both, those who purposely broke into a home that was occupied with the intent to do harm and those who broke into a home unknowingly if it was occupied is a moot point? because they can still turn violent, regardless of the perpetrators initial intentions.

2. During those, 38% of them end with some type of violent assault and/or rape, which rape occurs in 60% of those same home invasions.

3. Only 7.2% of those are committed by someone who knows the victims.

4. According to the Bureau of Justice, 1 in 5 violent home invasions, victims are seriously physically injured or killed.

5. Statistics show, home invasions decrease by 30% when there is some type of visible security devices installed in the home.

6. Homes without security systems are 300% more likely to be targeted for a home invasion.

7. Bureau of Justice statistics report, that during home invasions where the perpetrators are armed? Handguns are used in 41% of those incidents.






While I don't know or clearly understand your intended point of interjecting the majority of typical day time property burglary statistics where only property is sought in a thread that specifically asks about types of weapons a home owner would use in a home intrusion? My only question would be, does the philosophical dynamic of a typical daytime burglary that you well-reasoned and statistically show are 'the majority' of all burglaries, nullify anything in this thread concerning the subject matter of an armed home invasion? Does it prove or counter the unlikelihood of a gun benefiting a resident in a home-invasion situation on a macro scale? Those who defend the right to own weapons for home protection, see the issue from a micro standpoint.

The way our social contract with the government works, is rights are afforded to individuals, specifically in this context; the right not only to own a weapon but also defend oneself. No matter the majority of statistics, or how unlikely, it has happened where criminals break in a house, maybe thinking no one is home, and yet, still commit violence against the home owner if they are present. In that scenario, those who defend the right to keep a weapon for home defense would argue that it is unreasonable to rely on the police to arrive in a timely enough manner to protect them and their families right to live.

All kinds of bad things happen because of this, including accidental shootings, or even purposeful homicide on the part of the homeowner (shooting a burglar as he runs away). All that being said, the fundamental defense is that the government nor any other institution can not interfere with one's right to protection. In a public setting it is reasonable to expect that protection to be supplied by the public (police or whatever), but in a private household that right to protection can not be reasonably supplied by the public, hence the advocacy for self-protection.

In America we aren't 'supposed' to sacrifice rights, even for the greater social good. We let death-row inmates who clearly committed murder appeal their decision a dozen times, at the expense of the taxpayers and society as a whole, because their rights trump the aggregate drain on societal capital (money, public lawyers, judges, whom all could be doing more pertinent work). The same emphasis on protecting an individuals right also applies to a law abiding citizen who wishes to have a fire arm to protect themselves.

While saying all this, the homeowner will never in the moment truly know the invaders intentions, and its not unreasonable to think that someone who purposefully put them in that situation at least gave up their right to safety.

I have responded to and worked many a home invasion in my time. And while the statistical majority were only property theft or didn't include serious injury from assault. I have seen my few where they indeed have. Many years ago, I responded to a home invasion where three armed males kicked in the front door of an elderly couple, hog tied them and gagged them both with duct tape, pistol whipping them both to an inch of their lives, while stealing all of their valuables and packing them into the couples vehicle which they also stole.

But before they left, they boiled a very large 'gumbo type' pot of water on the stove and poured that pot of water over the top of that tied up and gagged couple before they left. Only the elderly male survived the assault. I can only assume, if their odds would have been better; of not being apart of the 'statistical minority' if their front door would have been a solid core door, with a proper 3 inch bolt lock, that went into a solid door jamb which would have taken a few minutes longer and multiple more kicks to bash in?

Maybe that would have given them the needed extra time to grab a firearm, which they also didn't own; and possibly defend themselves? Statistics be damned? No one will ever know.
Oh gracious, it appears I've struck a nerve.

First, B&E is simply the crime of entering a building by force. Pretty simple.

Second...look, you implied that passively waiting in a room for an intruder to stumble across you is a sound bet, when statistically that is objectively false for the reasons I already stated and you're being able to theorize a handful of exceptions doesn't change that. By your logic people shouldn't wear a seatbelt while driving because it mitigates the small chance that it strangles you during a crash, which of course ignores the far greater likelihood of the belt saving your ***... again... statistics. An extreme but applicable analogy.

"Statistics br damned? No one will ever know."

Now we're just being silly, pal. They've been collecting hard data on every documented instance of home invasion in every western nation for the better part of a century, and numbers don't lie. We do, in fact, know, what is more likely to bring swift resolution in most cases.

But ALL that aside, there's the principal of the matter... cowering in a corner while assailants disrespect, damage and steal your home and property? Just hoping they run into you first, rather than one of your children? Just not my style, man.
 

jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
Oh gracious, it appears I've struck a nerve.

First, B&E is simply the crime of entering a building by force. Pretty simple.

Second...look, you implied that passively waiting in a room for an intruder to stumble across you is a sound bet, when statistically that is objectively false for the reasons I already stated and you're being able to theorize a handful of exceptions doesn't change that. By your logic people shouldn't wear a seatbelt while driving because it mitigates the small chance that it strangles you during a crash, which of course ignores the far greater likelihood of the belt saving your ***... again... statistics. An extreme but applicable analogy.

"Statistics br damned? No one will ever know."

Now we're just being silly, pal. They've been collecting hard data on every documented instance of home invasion in every western nation for the better part of a century, and numbers don't lie. We do, in fact, know, what is more likely to bring swift resolution in most cases.

But ALL that aside, there's the principal of the matter... cowering in a corner while assailants disrespect, damage and steal your home and property? Just hoping they run into you first, rather than one of your children? Just not my style, man.
Style points decorate tombstones.

Yup. Folk are free to disrespect, damage and steal your home and property. That's why I have insurance. And when there were family and kids all those decades ago, I taught them to gather & cower in the corner behind me.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Oh gracious, it appears I've struck a nerve.

Not at all, I'm just an honest ***** by nature of my personality. However, I didn't say anything rude or overly butt kissing in my post. It's just all plain speak dude? You don't seem to fret much when you speak plainly? So please don't fret when I do? :)


First, B&E is simply the crime of entering a building by force. Pretty simple.

I can agree with this. Do you agree, all burglar's who desire to enter a locked and secured home, have to be entered by forcing their way in? Seems to just simply be a natural part of the nature and act of a burglary doesn't it? Again, I probably won't get an honest and straight answer, but I will pose this question again, since you seem to be bouncing around it. What was your point of property theft being the majority of the largest percentage of burglaries, have to do with this thread on what weapon choice would people choose during a home intrusion?

Ya know, inquiring minds and all?


Second...look, you implied that passively waiting in a room for an intruder to stumble across you is a sound bet,

I implied that gathering your loved ones if needed into a single protected room, while watching the door with a loaded firearm; or finding a choke point between the bad guys and those loved ones with a loaded firearm, is passive? I don't think so...

You think grabbing a firearm, calling the police and waiting in a protected room is a passive act? I ain't the smartest guy in the world, but I think you saying that action "is passive" speaks more about you then it does me? Just sayin.



when statistically that is objectively false for the reasons I already stated

What is objectively false? And what reasons have you already stated? This is my point, you haven't made a single clear point about anything you stated? Either clearly agree, or clearly disagree, but just be clear? are you attempting to make the point a firearm isn't needed? Just be clear? I know I would appreciate it? :)

and you're being able to theorize a handful of exceptions doesn't change that.


A handful of exceptions regarding what? I still don't understand the specific point you are wanting me to get without being clear and concise in your attempt? Please be clear of what you are pointing out sir? Or would being clear in a pro gun forum be difficult for you?




By your logic people shouldn't wear a seatbelt while driving because it mitigates the small chance that it strangles you during a crash, which of course ignores the far greater likelihood of the belt saving your ***... again... statistics. An extreme but applicable analogy.


your analogy doesn't make any sense and is a moot attempt when you haven't once been clear about your stance?



"Statistics br damned? No one will ever know."

Now we're just being silly, pal.

I absolutely agree good sir. It is quite silly, to come to this forum, if you don't support the idea of having a firearm to protect oneself in a thread titled of what firearm would we use in a home intrusion. I knew we could eventually agree with each other if we just kept trying. :)




They've been collecting hard data on every documented instance of home invasion in every western nation for the better part of a century, and numbers don't lie. We do, in fact, know, what is more likely to bring swift resolution in most cases.


I would like to hear more about your points of what we know is more likely to bring swift resolution in most cases? Please elaborate? :)





But ALL that aside, there's the principal of the matter...

Again, I absolutely agree! That's two for two! We just might become good friends! :)


cowering in a corner while assailants disrespect, damage and steal your home and property?

In the USA, we get to plan and proceed to fortify and strengthen our homes exterior's with strong doors and windows which forces someone who would attempt to gain entry, to take much more of a difficult, pain staking time than usual, in order to gain entry, which then allows the free American inside to obtain their firearm of choice, call 911 to get the police coming and gather themselves and any loved ones into a secure location inside and wait for the police to arrive or attempt to blast the invaders to oblivion once they get inside. whichever comes first. I'm pretty sure I have stated this logic several times before here?

I apologize sir, that you have not once, made any clear point of substance, in making me understand how those actions are cowering instead of intelligent? Sorry.


Just hoping they run into you first, rather than one of your children? Just not my style, man.

I think @jar_ said it best; My children will be with me and my wife cowering, in a place of advantage and fortification behind my 12 gauge shotgun. this place will be of my choosing to help keep everyone safe for either the police to get there first and do their jobs, just like in every other country in the world or; this place of strategic location, will also help me with the ability and advantage to stack up bad guys on the floor, in order to protect my family if the police fail to get there on time. Not like, every other country in the world? Don't hate, appreciate! :)

Which is my God given right as a free American. "USA!, USa!, Usa!, usa!" and all that stuff... :)
 
Remington 870 short barrel pump action shotgun.
Whether bear or burglar.
The best gun, is the one you are familiar with.
I don't spend my life waiting on some burglar stopping by, but I do move through the back-country with some regularity and like to have a defense weapon at hand in case a bear or cougar decides to mess with me.
So I know my defense shotgun.
 
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….. why is a shotgun the best home defense weapon?



BUT, is it the best??
To me the requirement for a home defense firearm is not different than a personal defense firearm for outside my house. It has to be readily accessible, I mean immediately and without hesitation. For this reason, while I have several firearms around the house, including a shotgun, I carry my pistol in my holster all the time, from after the shower until I go to bed. When I am in the shower, it is in the cabinet next to the shower. When I go to bed I have a second pistol with light, in a small biometric safe on my night stand at arm reach. Cellphone always in the pocket. The alarm system is on all the time.
 
To me the requirement for a home defense firearm is not different than a personal defense firearm for outside my house. It has to be readily accessible, I mean immediately and without hesitation. For this reason, while I have several firearms around the house, including a shotgun, I carry my pistol in my holster all the time, from after the shower until I go to bed. When I am in the shower, it is in the cabinet next to the shower. When I go to bed I have a second pistol with light, in a small biometric safe on my night stand at arm reach. Cellphone always in the pocket. The alarm system is on all the time.
Dare I ask, where are you located..? Eastern Ukraine ...?
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Remington 870 short barrel pump action shotgun.
Whether bear or burglar.
The best gun, is the one you are familiar with.
I don't spend my life waiting on some burglar stopping by, but I do move through the back-country with some regularity and like to have a defense weapon at hand in case a bear or cougar decides to mess with me.
So I know my defense shotgun.

Good post and Great avatar! :)
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Dare I ask, where are you located..? Eastern Ukraine ...?

To have and live the concept of 'hoping for the best, while being prepared for the worst?' Location is not a requirement sir?

For the record, I have never been accosted while in the shower and don't really expect ever to be so, just as you don't really expect to be attacked by a bear, but yet you remain prepared for that slim possibility? So, like you, I am also still prepared for the worst with my extensive training in naked & wet Kung Fu... :)
 
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Good post and Great avatar!
Thanks. In case you read about my avatar on my "About" page, what it does not say there is that I am also a Canadian citizen, and equally at home in Western Canada and Denmark. I'd never dream of carrying a firearm in Denmark. In Canada, I wouldn't go into the bush without one.
 

jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
No, it's a state of mind. I call it paranoia
Ok. That's the wonderful thing about humans. We often have totally different viewpoints.

I cannot remember very many days in the last few decades when I was not carrying a loaded handgun whether alone at home or out and about. It does not inconvenience me or limit my activities and simply feels and seems normal. When I get dressed in the morning the gun goes on and when I undress at night the gun comes off.

I have had a few instances over the far too many decades when I actually found the handgun useful and so far over the far too many decades no instances when it created a detriment.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Thanks. In case you read about my avatar on my "About" page, what it does not say there is that I am also a Canadian citizen, and equally at home in Western Canada and Denmark. I'd never dream of carrying a firearm in Denmark. In Canada, I wouldn't go into the bush without one.

I completely understand sir.
 

Claudel Xerxes

Staff member
Not a requirement. It can also be a state of mind. I call that paranoia

Tread lightly. You are in a thread about home invasion firearms, accusing members of paranoia. In addition, you think that someone having guns prepared at the home is being paranoid, yet you've mentioned that you have a shotgun handy in your vehicle. I haven't looked up the statistics, but I'd wager to bet that burglary is far more common than bear attacks. So, one has to ask themselves, who's the one being paranoid?
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Not a requirement. It can also be a state of mind. I call that paranoia

Yet with the exact same logic, you aren't paranoid preparing for a bear in the woods? Hasn't happened yet? So why do you care about making sure your shotgun is with you? Why do you not consider that logic, hypocritical? Could it be, because we can assume, you probably have personal knowledge of others being attacked by a bear?

If so, why not extend the same reasonable assumption, that some might have the same personal knowledge of being attacked in a vulnerable state in their own homes? And they, just like you, want the freedom to decide which area of their life to be prepared for? It amazes me, that you don't think you deserve ridicule for carrying a shotgun for protection against bears, which have a much better record of not being aggressive murderers than humans do, yet you feel like someone who decides differently than you of where to apply their standards of protection and preparedness deserves your ridicule?

Seems quite hypocritical of you, just saying. I personally think, you are not paranoid for preparing to not be eaten by a bear in the woods, however slim that may be. you want to be in reach of a gun for something that has never happened. So does he?

What about that can you not understand? Is it simply because, since you don't have the right in Canada, you don't think we should in America? I get it, Canada allows you to defend yourself against being killed by a bear, but they don't allow you to defend yourself being killed by another human. I do get it.
 
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