Glock Perfection: Even More Perfect? We Shall See.

[Whisky]

That’s funny.

For some reason, this site isn’t letting me click on tabs like my pm inbox. I can click the thumbs up icon, but I can’t select lol’s or others. I was gonna send you a pm to see if you can check what’s up, but it won’t let me do that either?

Any of this working for you yet?

 

[Rob72]

OK-Great on you for posting up. Please be safe and get well, Sir.

While I believe that putting in the work to go edc RDS is worth it. I also believe that the most difficult cohort for transition is long time accomplished iron sight shooters. That was me.

IMHO, the easiest cohort to teach to shoot RDS is a novice who has never shot a pistol at all.

I believe that for me, learning on a full sized 9mm Glock with NO iron sights at all on the slide for the first 700-800 rds was helpful and flattened the learning cure re target focus when I was coming off of carry a full sized G34/35 with iron sights.

It is very difficult to pivot from hard focus on the front sight to target focused shooting when you have sucessfully done it 100K+ W irons.

Becuase the dot give you so much more feedback re movement, the long time iron shooter wants to stop it before they press off the shot. That eats up time and give some support to the position that in the 0-5/7 yr envelope, iron sights are intrinsically faster.

2 drills that I have found very helpful in demomstrating the RDS sight picture needed to land effective hits are the parallax drill (where the dot goes the shot goes.) The shooter puts the dot in the 7:00 position/edge of the optic window and fires. The pattern is repeated around the clock face so to speak. The resulting group, presuming solid fundamentals, will be tight enough for defensive work.

Another drill is the basketball drill (if your marksmanship fundamentals are solid and current, you can press the trigger as fast as you are able and still hold 8.5 x 11 (collarbone to xiphoid, nipple to nipple) up to 5/7 yrds, as the dot is bouncing like a basketball in the optic window such that it never stops moving at all.

Once you “know” and embrace that the dot does not have to stop to land an effective hit, the speed deficit between irons and an RDS is ultimately eliminated.

As the range increases past 7 yrds, and/or you have the need to make a precision shot, one hand only shots, lower light shots, moving target shots etc, the RDS is a game changer.

Once mounting a rifle optic mounting became roughly standardized with a receiver milled in rail nearly 20+ years ago, no first world military nor 1 Tier unit anywhere would consider deploying without an optic, usually an RDS.

As such, when similarly robust and milled in mounting solutions for pistol optics are as widely available, you will see a wholesale pivot to RDS.

Indeed, Glock and SW are already making agency guns with a rail for Aimpoint/Steiner and Holosun optics. Mounting is as simple as torquing down a one clamp nut with little to no degreasing etc. No plates, no degreasing after market screws with more threads etc.

Agreed. I'm of the suspicion that it would be INCREDIBLY difficult for someone starting from a RDS base and achieving a high level of performance to transition to irons. Body posture and achieving alignment in the ocular plane is very different.

 

[OkieStubble]

Any of this working for you yet?

Yes sir, everything is back to normal finally! Are you the one I need to thank?

 

[OkieStubble]

OK-Great on you for posting up. Please be safe and get well, Sir.

While I believe that putting in the work to go edc RDS is worth it. I also believe that the most difficult cohort for transition is long time accomplished iron sight shooters. That was me.

IMHO, the easiest cohort to teach to shoot RDS is a novice who has never shot a pistol at all.

I believe that for me, learning on a full sized 9mm Glock with NO iron sights at all on the slide for the first 700-800 rds was helpful and flattened the learning cure re target focus when I was coming off of carry a full sized G34/35 with iron sights.

It is very difficult to pivot from hard focus on the front sight to target focused shooting when you have sucessfully done it 100K+ W irons.

Becuase the dot give you so much more feedback re movement, the long time iron shooter wants to stop it before they press off the shot. That eats up time and give some support to the position that in the 0-5/7 yr envelope, iron sights are intrinsically faster.

2 drills that I have found very helpful in demomstrating the RDS sight picture needed to land effective hits are the parallax drill (where the dot goes the shot goes.) The shooter puts the dot in the 7:00 position/edge of the optic window and fires. The pattern is repeated around the clock face so to speak. The resulting group, presuming solid fundamentals, will be tight enough for defensive work.

Another drill is the basketball drill (if your marksmanship fundamentals are solid and current, you can press the trigger as fast as you are able and still hold 8.5 x 11 (collarbone to xiphoid, nipple to nipple) up to 5/7 yrds, as the dot is bouncing like a basketball in the optic window such that it never stops moving at all.

Once you “know” and embrace that the dot does not have to stop to land an effective hit, the speed deficit between irons and an RDS is ultimately eliminated.

As the range increases past 7 yrds, and/or you have the need to make a precision shot, one hand only shots, lower light shots, moving target shots etc, the RDS is a game changer.

Once mounting a rifle optic mounting became roughly standardized with a receiver milled in rail nearly 20+ years ago, no first world military nor 1 Tier unit anywhere would consider deploying without an optic, usually an RDS.

As such, when similarly robust and milled in mounting solutions for pistol optics are as widely available, you will see a wholesale pivot to RDS.

Indeed, Glock and SW are already making agency guns with a rail for Aimpoint/Steiner and Holosun optics. Mounting is as simple as torquing down a one clamp nut with little to no degreasing etc. No plates, no degreasing after market screws with more threads etc.

This all sounds like great advice David and I surely will try some of these skills training for an RDS as you suggest, while I am new to this dot on a pistol thing, I have been shooting a dot or holographic site on a rifle for awhile; but from my experience yesterday, shooting a dot on a pistol sure seems like a completely different animal than a rifle and how it feels.

The case of ammo that was put thru my SS yesterday, I probably only shot about 600 rounds of it and my son shot the other 400, but after not only the 600 rounds, but also changing the reticle to a 32 MOA circle which co- witnessed with the front irons really helped hold my significantly more stable and let me shoot more accurately.

But you are 200% right and I totally agree with you, that I don’t want to become dependent on that. I want to learn to shoot the smaller 2mm dot while it’s bouncing around in an upper 1/3 co-witness.

While this first range outing was a success in checking out the reliability of the SS MR 920 and getting the dot sighted in, I realize getting to where I want to be with an pistol mounted RDS is just beginning.

My next few short term goals is to get back in the gym and begin building my strength back up and putting on some of the weight back that I lost and then putting some defensive HP rounds thru the pistol. Then I will seek out a basic RDS class. I think my local county sheriff’s office has an RDS class for their officers. I will talk to a few people I know and see if I can tag along to one of them.

 

[KW Driver]

@oakiestubble haven't been in here for awhile. nice reportage. hope you're healing up quickly and easily.

 

[OkieStubble]

@oakiestubble haven't been in here for awhile. nice reportage. hope you're healing up quickly and easily.

Thanks partner, means a lot coming from you. Glad to see you back in here. Your knowledge, experience perspectives and opinions are missed!

My username isn’t spelled with an ‘A’ in it?

 

[KW Driver]

Thanks partner, means a lot coming from you. Glad to see you back in here. Your knowledge, experience perspectives and opinions are missed!

My username isn’t spelled with an ‘A’ in it?

never did spel gud and type worser. and who knows how the autodefect played with it. and ya'll weirdos up there spell funny anyways. I'll try to do better, or just go lazy and reply/quote/whatever.

I like this printable target just to work small targets at x range for refinement and drill as desired. Tripple Seven drill

as far as trigger systems, a typical polish job on the OEM parts and one of these is all I need. there's no travel just at the wall with a smooth break and a good reset. a qualified Glock armorer may not, but I've broken my OEM plastic trigger shoes putting these on. they're all metal and don't break when you take them off. it's a 5 minute job. American made (every single part/thread/everything), and Andy is a brother. a much older brother. a much older, uglier brother.

 

[OkieStubble]

Now that the Shadow Systems MR920 has passed the initial 1,000 round break in of different FMJ ammunition with flying colors, I took it back again this morning and put a few different types of HP Defensive brands thru it.

The pistol was pretty dirty and dry from last weeks session, so other then testing it out to see if it would choke on some of the different HP loads, I also decided to leave it dry & dirty and see if I could maybe help it choke on some HP ammo.

190 rounds of various brands:

50 Speer 124 gr. +P Gold Dot
40 Hornady 135 gr. Critical Duty
40 Sig Sauer 124 gr. V- Crown
20 Federal Premium 135 gr. Hydra-Shok
20 Federal Premium 150 gr. HST
20 Browning 147 gr. BXP

Sorry, no pics of targets, because after I took the pic of ammo, I took off for the range and left my damn phone sitting on the counter.

But the targets looked pretty much about the same as they did last week, with the smaller 2mm dot in 1/3 co-witness, making me definitely look like I need more skill with a RDS and the bigger 32 MOA circle and dot, co- witnessed with the front iron, making me look like I’m an expert gun nut who sleeps with his pistol.

The SS 920 functioned flawlessly with all brands even when dry & dirty. I guess the next test is to not clean it until it does malfunction.

Well, I might clean just the inside of the barrel and leave the rest of it dirty.

 

[Filudo]

red dot???

 

[Filudo]

XS sights are 30% off on their site.

 

[OkieStubble]

Cleaned the inside of the barrel on the SS today and wiped down the outside of the pistol. While I had to take a small toothbrush to the front of the slide to clean the baked on powder residue from 1,190 rounds, I’m probably going to leave the inside of the slide and frame dirty until it at least malfunctions, in order just to see how far it will go being dirty.

I might have to switch the Streamlight TLR-8 out for a longer version like a TLR-1 or 2, because the shorter TLR-8’s bezel and lens sits flush right below the muzzle. The lens was totally black and soot covered after so many rounds and the light could not be seen until cleaned.

Makes me wonder if heat from the muzzle would affect the bezel? A longer model would at least keep the lens out in front of the muzzle?

 

[Filudo]

Academy had one on clearance: $560 or 580?, desert tan lower. I had never "touched" them, the upper is nice: somewhere between a GreyGhost and a Zev (in that order), lower has nice parts; but the polymer on the frame looks a bit "flimsy"?, or less sturdy that the big 3 sellers of Tupperware ..... .

 

[Filudo]

Cleaned the inside of the barrel on the SS today and wiped down the outside of the pistol. While I had to take a small toothbrush to the front of the slide to clean the baked on powder residue from 1,190 rounds, I’m probably going to leave the inside of the slide and frame dirty until it at least malfunctions, in order just to see how far it will go being dirty.

I might have to switch the Streamlight TLR-8 out for a longer version like a TLR-1 or 2, because the shorter TLR-8’s bezel and lens sits flush right below the muzzle. The lens was totally black and soot covered after so many rounds and the light could not be seen until cleaned.

Makes me wonder if heat from the muzzle would affect the bezel? A longer model would at least keep the lens out in front of the muzzle?

The other day, using a TLR6....couldn't see the laser well.....thought battery was dead......ordered some online......then when they arrived.....realized the lenses (light and laser) were "caked" w powder.....just cleaned and it revived......

I remember seeing a vid YT or reading of ways to prevent the cake ....

 

[OkieStubble]

The other day, using a TLR6....couldn't see the laser well.....thought battery was dead......ordered some online......then when they arrived.....realized the lenses (light and laser) were "caked" w powder.....just cleaned and it revived......

I remember seeing a vid YT or reading of ways to prevent the cake ....

So, you haven’t noticed any heat effects from the muzzle affecting the lens?

 

[Filudo]

So, you haven’t noticed any heat effects from the muzzle affecting the lens?

I did not really check it, just wiped it clean. This one had max 20 rds.....to zero the laser, and then a 2nd time to verify it hadn't moved. Will check it next time.

 

[Filudo]

I have an important question: in your shooting, did you get any brass to face? That has been an ongoing annoying issue w G4"s. I think it happens most often with last round of the mag.....

Appreciate your feedback.

 

[OkieStubble]

I have an important question: in your shooting, did you get any brass to face? That has been an ongoing annoying issue w G4"s. I think it happens most often with last round of the mag.....

Appreciate your feedback.

I have shot so many rounds from so many different Gens of Glocks over the years, inside static ranges, outside active ranges, standing, sitting, running and laying down, I don't know if I would pay much attention to it or notice, because I'm used to brass flying all over the place.

I do recall the wife getting some hot brass blistering with a Gen4 on the bridge of her nose behind her shooting glasses and one down in her cleavage. I started making her wear a baseball cap to fix the issue.

 

[Filudo]

just watched Hicock45; his only negative (which is rare), the trigger was worse than the G4. mushy and harder break?

 

[KW Driver]

Cleaned the inside of the barrel on the SS today and wiped down the outside of the pistol. While I had to take a small toothbrush to the front of the slide to clean the baked on powder residue from 1,190 rounds, I’m probably going to leave the inside of the slide and frame dirty until it at least malfunctions, in order just to see how far it will go being dirty.

I might have to switch the Streamlight TLR-8 out for a longer version like a TLR-1 or 2, because the shorter TLR-8’s bezel and lens sits flush right below the muzzle. The lens was totally black and soot covered after so many rounds and the light could not be seen until cleaned.

Makes me wonder if heat from the muzzle would affect the bezel? A longer model would at least keep the lens out in front of the muzzle?

maybe you just need to "Roland Special" your super Glock. having the lens behind your comp would achieve one of the originator's design specs.

an old article and sales ad for a maker, but it does cover the basic concept. I run an Olight PL-Mini 2 Valkyrie that sits back well and throws enough light for most all pistol ranges without washing out indoors. And only MMs fatter that the slide width.

 

[OkieStubble]

Great idea!