Glock Perfection: Even More Perfect? We Shall See.

[OkieStubble]

I have put it off long enough. While I thought I was too old skool for a red dot and mounted optics system, I realized my aging eyeballs could probably really use a pistol mounted red dot.

Picked this up today. Shadow Systems MR920.



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Came with two MagPul 15 round magazines and three different back straps for hand placement in order to help one decide which is best for their individual preferences in order to point and pick up a red dot naturally.
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Went ahead and put a Streamlight TLR-8 underneath it and now I just need to decide which Holosun model with a green dot instead of a red dot I want for it.

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It looks like a Glock, walks like a Glock and quacks like a Glock 19 Gen4. And from the millions of reviews I think I have read, it should be as rugged and reliable as a Glock? I dunno? From my research into their manufacturing techniques, by all rights and purposes they are just highly customizing a Gen4 G19?

Except it has an 18 degree 1811 classic grip angle instead of the Glocks 22 degree grip angle, which should help the optic dot come up level with the eyes and point and find the dot much easier instead of having to draw a Glock and keep the nose of the muzzle tipped down a bit until the dot is picked up and then adjust the point of aim once the dot is acquired.

These are the things I have read and researched, but I tend in finding out for myself.

 

[nortac]

View attachment 1756286
It looks like a Glock, walks like a Glock and quacks like a Glock 19 Gen4. And from the millions of reviews I think I have read, it should be as rugged and reliable as a Glock? I dunno? From my research into their manufacturing techniques, by all rights and purposes they are just highly customizing a Gen4 G19?

Except it has an 18 degree 1911 classic grip angle instead of the Glocks 22 degree grip angle, which should help the optic dot come up level with the eyes and point and find the dot much easier instead of having to draw a Glock and keep the nose of the muzzle tipped down a bit until the dot is picked up and then adjust the point of aim once the dot is acquired.

These are the things I have read and researched, but I tend in finding out for myself.

FTFY

 

[OkieStubble]

FTFY

@OkieStubble , I look forward to extensive reviews and updates! Howz the trigger?

Trigger blows my Gen4 19 out of the water! And my G19's trigger has been smoothed out from around 15,000 rounds or so?

Do you intend to carry it on a regular basis?

Maybe, once I have ran it thru the gauntlet.

(I know you like to switch things up frequently!)

You know me quite well my friend. Yes, while I love guns; I admit, I can get bored with them easily.

Is this the "small" version of gun.....

No. Their CR models are the small versions, basically G43's and G43X's. My MR model is a G19. DR models are Glock 17's and their XR models are Glock 19X or G45's depending on how you look at it. Basically, a G17 frame with a G19 slide.

I see Magpul....so you can use OEM Glock mags and have one thing less to worry.

I do have plenty of Glock OEM magazines to use with it... But, I also have plenty of MagPul magazines for 7 or 8 different models of Glocks with thousands of rounds thru them? Never had a problem personally? Do you have a link showing Magpul magazine issues?

Some Shadow System gun, that the "Warrior Poet Society" dude showed (small), had their own magazine design....and that was the weak point.....

You probably should post some links, showing some of this stuff you are saying? Nothing wrong with posting links verifying positive and negative, pros & cons of things? I have researched on my own on this claim, and...

1. For John Lovell to put his Insignia and John Hancock on a special edition firearm is quite something. The War Poet Shadow Systems you are referring to, start out in price at $1,400 and are hard to find anywhere without ordering because of their popularity because of the type of quality he puts his name behind? I haven't found a single reference to him re-designing magazines. His War Poet pistol uses Magpul Magazines just as the other Shadow Systems models do. I have never had a single issue with a Magpul magazine myself?

Links to your claims would be really helpful with research?

Frame looks like a P80/LoneWolf

At first glance, I thought the grip angle had a Polymer 80 look. But a closer look shows, it far and away exceeds the quality of a P80 frame. I have shot many a P80 Glock clone. Their polymer seems much more thinner and lighter and less rigid to me, which gives it a cheap feeling. While all polymer frames should flex some, I think P80 frames flex too much.

The SS MR 920 frame I have, feels every bit as substantial as the 8 other OEM Glock's I own.

 

[OkieStubble]

Ok, a bit of history on the Shadow Systems origins.

Shadow Systems is based in Plano Texas and started in 2016 by Owner and CEO Trevor Roe. By the time he was 15 years old, he probably had put more thousands of rounds down range competing in USPCA and IDPA Than most adults ever will. He competed at a high level for many years into adulthood before joining the U.S. military as an Infantry soldier. He has spent combat tours in Iraq & Afghanistan.

When he started SS in 2016, he brought on board many different design engineers and a team of former Military Veterans and Law Enforcement Officers to help with design input from professional experts in their field.

So basically, Shadow Systems was formed from the ground up, by very experienced shooters, who were looking to design the ultimate combat fighting pistol for? Experienced shooters.

They have a Motto: "If you want just as much reliability as a Glock, but with a few extra custom features, most notably an Optics Ready Slide, Go with the Shadow Systems Foundation Series.

If you want the best gun money can buy, Go with the Elite Shadow Systems.

If you are on a strict budget? Go with the Glock."

In saying all of this, Shadow Systems are being marketed as an extremely reliable, superior functioning, high quality, highly customized clones of Glock model 17's, 19's 19X's, 45's and 43 & 43X's. They are not cheap guns. They are being marketed as top of the line and they have top of the line price points.

I am going to attempt to destroy my pistol and find out if these claims are true for myself. I'll probably stop short of dragging it behind a pick up truck, or pitching it out of an airplane, which I actually did with a G19 Gen2 many years ago from a highway patrol single wing propeller two seater. We landed on a back country road to retrieve it after that G19 bounced and slid several blocks down that old black topped road. I emptied the entire 15 round magazine into the berm of a cornfield right there, with no problems whatsoever. it's things like this and going into harms way for many years while carrying a Glock 17 when I started back in 97' and then a Glock 23 when on duty which has made me a totally biased, died in the wool Glock Fanboy. Also used a G19 Gen2 and Gen4 in the academy for a decade teaching young un's in the way of the Glock.

I might not repeat these stupidities of a young man who was bored with his pistol, but If I can break it by putting it thru the ringer with some more normal types and aspects of use? I'm a gonna give it a try. If I'm anything, I'm a loyalist. I'll see for myself if this high priced Shadow Systems can also, earn my loyality.

Until then, I will hash out all of my research, pro's & con's, trials & tribulations, range visits and reviews and bragging & bitching about this "highly acclaimed" pistol that everyone's talking about. I'm a pessimist first, and an optimist after it's been proven. This pessimism first has brought me home safely on many a night. If this pistol can make it past my pessimism, I might just start carrying it one day.

I got my first 1911 .45 3 years ago in a Springfield Range Officer. Man was that gun screwing up! My pessimism was at an all time high! But ya know what? Between the awesome helpful advice I was getting from the awesome gentlemen of this forum and Springfield's excellent customer service, that Range Officer is still my absolute favorite 1911 and I have bought and sold a couple of others since then.

Best thing that can happen from this? Is after carrying a Glock for 30 years, I might have come across a pistol which personifies the meaning of: Glock Perfection.

Worst thing that can happen? I throw this thing in the trash and simply go back to the 8 different Glocks I have in my safe.

 

[nortac]

Looking forward to you T&E reports.

 

[OkieStubble]

Looking forward to you T&E reports.

Ok, here we go.

First, let’s do some initial introductions and then some contrast & comparisons.

Introductions:

There are two types of grades for the Shadow Systems line of pistols. They have a basic line of pistols which are called 'The Foundation Series' which are still not cheap; and then they have their ultimate hot dog with all the fixins', where they pulled out all the stops and created a top tier grade of pistol. I saved a $1,000 dollars by choosing the Foundation Series instead of the higher grade Elite Series; and my Foundation Series still cost me around $770 and change out the door after taxes.

The Foundation Series has all of the user grade upgrades as the Elite Series does, but the Elite Series has other cosmetic features that the Foundation Series doesn't. Like it has front cocking serrations on the top forward front of the slide. This is supposed to help and assist for easier press checking of a loaded chamber? I have never needed serrations on the top of my Glock slides in the past? And I think top serrations on the front of the slide are ugly, so there's one reason I didn't need to spend an extra 1K on the Elite.

The Elite model has a Bronze colored barrel and spiral fluting with a threaded muzzle for a suppressor. While I like to joke & kid around about gold bling on here, in reality, I'm a very utilitarian kinda guy. I like looking at and appreciating others fine shiny firearms but I like guns that have hard to use dull black finishes that I can knock around and dent, ding & scratch and it just builds character more than it does in diminishing the value of a fine looking pistol. So no gold twisted fluting for me and while I might want to suppress a .22 or subsonic .45 ACP pistol one day, not really looking to suppress a slow, light 9mm pistol. That's just me.

The Elite also has a couple of 'lightening cuts' or windows cut out on either side of the slide. While they say it helps to reduce the weight of the pistol, those cut outs are way too small to actually make a difference in the overall weight and imo, they are there only cosmetically so you can see the spiral fluting of the bronze colored barrel thru the windows. These are the only things that are different between my Foundation Series and the Elite series. But both series has all the same functional upgrades like match grade barrels, a dark black, Tennifer Nitride finish which is what I love about my Gen3 Glocks that Glock moved away from in their Gen4 models and many other smaller upgrades which I will go over in the Contrasts & Comparisons section. While the Elite's fancy cosmetic upgrades are nice, my personality is better matched with the plain all black look of the Foundation series, but it still has all of the real life functional upgrades as the much more expensive Elite Series does.

 

[Filudo]

I have realized that if you type: "........" your brand and model then problems or issues in google.....it will bring a lot of info....

good reviews are often paid or fanboys, bad ones are either real or some sour soul....

 

[OkieStubble]

I have realized that if you type: "........" your brand and model then problems or issues in google.....it will bring a lot of info....

good reviews are often paid or fanboys, bad ones are either real or some sour soul....

I would still be interested in your provided links for the sake of my research? Ante up or fold?

 

[litework]

I have put it off long enough. While I thought I was too old skool for a red dot and mounted optics system, I realized my aging eyeballs could probably really use a pistol mounted red dot.

Looks good! What red dot are you going to put on it?

 

[Filudo]

I remember the small one having issues. I have no horse in this race.... Good luck w it.

Been burnt too many times going with internet reviews (all sorts of devices) and also from friends....

 

[OkieStubble]

I remember the small one having issues. I have no horse in this race.... Good luck w it.

Been burnt too many times going with internet reviews (all sorts of devices) and also from friends....

No worries my friend. I wasn’t trying to start a debate with you or give you a hard time or anything like that.

You said John Lovell tried to re-design the MagPul magazines and that’s where the troubles began?

I couldn’t find anything about that whatsoever in order to research after typing that very thing into Google.

I thought maybe you could provide a link so I could educate myself on it that’s all.

The owner of Shadow Systems, Trevor Roe does a weekly YouTube video called Technical Tuesdays where he talks, answers questions and speaks In resolving real life problems, perceived issues and all questions pertaining to their firearms.

You just don’t see any other firearm manufacturer doing something like this on a weekly basis, being up front about their firearms products.

Here is a video example of him discussing about an issue with the very CR920 model you mentioned. He talks about resolving the issue and how they made it right with consumers of their product.

That up front good character of taking responsibility listening to customer concerns and feedback and explaining in detail how they resolved it, impresses the heck out of me.

 

[simon1]

Spotlight on bottom and T.V. set on top, huh?

Glock Perfection...Gen 37 improvement.

 

[OkieStubble]

Looks good! What red dot are you going to put on it?

Either a Holosun 507K green dot or the 407C green dot.

Holosun makes a special edition 507K specifically for The Shadow Systems upgraded Elite models and John Lovell’s War Poet models.

They’re normal Holosun’s except instead of the big white letters saying Holosun printed on the case of the optic the words are blacked out making look more stealthy and cooler when matched with the pistol.

The don’t sell these blacked out versions to us guys who only purchased the basic pistol model. I guess only spending close to $800 doesn’t make us worthy to purchase it. The stealth version is only for the 1K and above crowd.

But where there is a Will there is a way, so I am going to find a back door in getting me the blacked out version.

 

[Lockback]

Looking forward to you T&E reports.

Yeah, me too.
I have avoided red dots on my handguns mainly because I think When The Wolf Is At The Door, it's a point and shoot affair without a lot of aiming. My AR is a different situation: I put a Sig red dot on it and love it.
Let us know what you think, amigo. I shall await your report because I trust your judgment.

 

[nortac]

Either a Holosun 507K green dot or the 407C green dot.

Holosun makes a special edition 507K specifically for The Shadow Systems upgraded Elite models and John Lovell’s War Poet models.

.......

But where there is a Will there is a way, so I am going to find a back door in getting me the blacked out version.

Sharpie marker

 

[nikonNUT]

Rob, legit question... How many extras did you get with your Foundation for $770.00? I ask because my LGS has a STACK of shadow systems and I can grab a DR920 Elite (with the threaded barrel) for $829.00 out the door. Might have to grab one if that is a deal-ish. I mean it's that or a B.E. Meyers Kiiji. Don't ask but freakin lazer beams, man!

Oh, and if I had my druthers this is the Holosun I would grab!

Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 Pistol Green Dot Sight - ACSS® Vulcan™ Reticle

DetailsThe Holosun HE507C-GR-X2-ACSS is a new generation of pistol red dot sight packed full of features like the multiple reticle system, solar failsafe, and shake awake technology to ensure your reflex sight is always operational when you need it. On top of the two battery-saving techniques...

www.primaryarms.com

Me likey the ASCC Vulcan reticle!

 

[OkieStubble]

Spotlight on bottom and T.V. set on top, huh?

Glock Perfection...Gen 37 improvement.

Lol’d. After the GAP failure, no wonder Glock stopped any future innovations?

 

[OkieStubble]

Rob, legit question... How many extras did you get with your Foundation for $770.00? I ask because my LGS has a STACK of shadow systems and I can grab a DR920 Elite (with the threaded barrel) for $829.00 out the door. Might have to grab one if that is a deal-ish. I mean it's that or a B.E. Meyers Kiiji. Don't ask but freakin lazer beams, man!

Oh, and if I had my druthers this is the Holosun I would grab!

Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 Pistol Green Dot Sight - ACSS® Vulcan™ Reticle

DetailsThe Holosun HE507C-GR-X2-ACSS is a new generation of pistol red dot sight packed full of features like the multiple reticle system, solar failsafe, and shake awake technology to ensure your reflex sight is always operational when you need it. On top of the two battery-saving techniques...

www.primaryarms.com

Me likey the ASCC Vulcan reticle!

I got mine for $679 plus taxes plus FFL transfer fee.

I am also considering the X2, but I know several guys who paid the extra cash in order to switch between reticles, but every time I see them, their red dot is just set in the original dot. Why have the different reticle options if they ain’t gonna use them?

 

[nikonNUT]

I got mine for $679 plus taxes plus FFL transfer fee.

I am also considering the X2, but I know several guys who paid the extra cash in order to switch between reticles, but every time I see them, their red dot is just set in the original dot. Why have the different reticle options if they ain’t gonna use them?

I have a 507 GR-X2 and generally leave it on the circle-dot configuration. That's why I like the Vulcan. Single inverted chevron and a rediculous 100MOA (?) circle. The chevron is nice for fine aiming, acts as a BDC sorta, and the 100 MOA circle tells you if you are screwing up bad aka if you see any part of it your sight picture is WAY off!

 

[OkieStubble]

I have a 507 GR-X2 and generally leave it on the circle-dot configuration. That's why I like the Vulcan. Single inverted chevron and a rediculous 100MOA (?) circle. The chevron is nice for fine aiming, acts as a BDC sorta, and the 100 MOA circle tells you if you are screwing up bad aka if you see any part of it your sight picture is WAY off!
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That’s actually pretty cool!