How to get a comfortable shave

[TheBeast]

Hello everybody. I decided to create this thread to use as a shared diary kind of thing. All the questions asked here are the ones I am contemplating about the most. Please chip in with your opinions and tips. Anybody reading along might find something helpful for them. Im just a few weeks into SR using and honing. Lots of learning to do. I am kinnd of on and off with using a SR. When life gets busy, I just use a DE and dont bother. But my DE shaves are not as comfortable as I would like them to be, and they also very often result in ingrowns and irritation lasting a day or two.

HOW DO I GET A COMFORTABLE SHAVE WITH A STRAIGHT RAZOR?

A lot of factors goes into play... So, first, my weapon of choice. Ebay 20€ find, little bit of polishing and honing. Pradat-Brun from France (?)

As recieved:

Cleaned up:

Honed:
5k, 12k, 12k + clean leather strop (forgot to take a picture at 8k)

Not perfect, but good enough for me... as a beginner. Treetoping no problem, HHT no problem so gotta be sharp, right?

ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT:

-max out every stone, get a mirror finnish after 12k, experiment with killing the edge on 8k/12k and bringing it back to achieve less toothy and more straight edge
-finally get a diamond paste loaded balsa strop together and experiment with sharper, keener edge

Shave prep

This is a tough one. I take a shower, I use a face wash, I exit the shower with my head nad face dripping and I do not use a towel right now. I lather up on my palm, because I get brush burn when face lathering and my bowl lathering sucks - I end up with foamy lather.

I keep the lather on my face as short as possible, because if it stays too long it tingles or/and burns. In the process of buying and trying various "sensitive", no fragrance, whatever blah blah soap. Just need to find one that can stay on my skin for 30 minutes without causing discomfort.

I have regular breakouts and try to keep them at bay with skincare products that contain AHA, BHA and PHA - salicylic acid, glycolic acid etc. That makes my face quite tender right after a wash with a facewash containing salicylic acid. It also makes it reeealy dry until I apply tonic, serum and mosturizer. Thats why...

When I am already lathered up, the lather dries on me, because my skin tends to soak up all the moisture. Proraso pre-shave cream doesnt help much and TOBS pre-shave oil is too thick to my liking and does not allow for a comfortable glide of the SR. Anyway... my prefered hydration level of lather for a DE shave is something like this:

For a SR shave, I add even more water to make it as slippery as it can get and I do not care for having a thick layer of dense lather on my face. I find it makes it harder to maintain an angels touch, as such lather will resist the SR at a shallow angle and I need to force it along my skin. With thin, watery and slippery lather, the edge is gliding no problem and the only resistance is in areas with high density of growth.

ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT:

-find a way to keep my face hydrated underneath the layer of lather, so that shaving lather does not dry out and my skin does not absorb that much shaving soap
-find a soap that does not cause discomort
-tune in the lather for best glide of the SR

Shave technique

Pretty basic. Keep the angle as low as possible. Keep the pressure as low as possible. In dense areas of growth, more angle rather than more pressure. Those places of my face are just fine after the shave. One pass, with the grain, as little repeated passes as possible.

My neck though is a pickle. Swirls around adams apple, then growing at a 30-45 degree angle (up) from center towards the ear. Its difficult to follow the grain perfetly, but I do my best. I get a few ingrowns, I get some irritation... Those I do not want to get and hence all this effort.

ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT:

-more consistent angle
-more consistent angels touch (no pressure)
-finding a better way to grip the razor in order to follow the contours and grain of the neck

Post shave

Wash out the soap thorougly, cold water, alum to get some feedback, cold water, pat dry.

For my face I do the rest of the skincare, Korean AHA, BHA, PHA toner and serum, Korean moisturizer containg some weird slime thats supposed to calm the skin.

For my neck I use Thayers Witch hazel toner and Nivea "Sensitive Pro Ultra-Calming Aftershave Balsam"... what a name... still doesnt do much if I get some big-boy-really-bad-shave-burning-face type irritation.




THE RESULT OF THE SHAVE

Closeness - amazing at one spot, terrible right next to it, completely missed right below... dont really care much.

Comfort - horrible. Alum feedbeck is telling me - you are doing something wrong to this face dude, because the alum stings. With more practice and better technique, should be able to knock it down. I got some low to no sting shaves in with a shavette about a year ago.

A few minutes after the shave, my face and neck lights up as a christmas tree to let me know in which areas I messed up the most. Usually its all good in a few hours, with only spot blemishes like single hairs growing back into the skin (curly hair). Next day skin is usually not ready for another shave, so I tend to shave every other day.


THE GOAL

Every day shave, no tingles while having lather on, not having to dip the brush in water and re-wet the lather every 60 seconds to keep it wet, not getting a ton of burn/sting from alum, not having my skin light up red, not having as much spot blemishes.

HOW TO GET THERE?

Aim for a better suited edge for my face, learn to hone better, try out different finishers.
Try using a hydrating face wash instead, maybe try out some other form of pre-shave to have the skin hydrated
Find a soap that does not tingle and burn
Keep working on that technique, every tiny detail needs ironing out

With every little aspect of the shave being perfected, it is unavoidable to achieve a great shave. Right? I hope so. I will keep working, trying, honing and shaving until I get there. Updates will come.

 

[Herrenberg]

Sounds like an excellent quest.

I do have one suggestion, based on what you wrote: Try shaving NOT right after a shower, and using cold water instead of hot. This is what I switched to, because the hot water and marinating in hot water in the shower seemed to make my skin more fragile.

To soften the whiskers before the shave, I lather up, saturate a shave towel with (cold) water, wrap it tightly around my shave area (holding the knot in back with one hand to keep it tight), and wait 3 minutes.

When I say "cold" water, I really mean lukewarm, because that's what comes out of the cold water tap when you live in a desert.

Your "room for improvement" lists basically sound reasonable; you may also want to try an expertly-honed reference edge at some point. That business about "resistance in areas with high density of growth" sounds like something that should not happen with a proper edge, at a proper (low) angle, with proper (lack of) pressure, but it could also just be that our whiskers are different.

 

[TheBeast]

Sounds like an excellent quest.

I do have one suggestion, based on what you wrote: Try shaving NOT right after a shower, and using cold water instead of hot. This is what I switched to, because the hot water and marinating in hot water in the shower seemed to make my skin more fragile.

To soften the whiskers before the shave, I lather up, saturate a shave towel with (cold) water, wrap it tightly around my shave area (holding the knot in back with one hand to keep it tight), and wait 3 minutes.

When I say "cold" water, I really mean lukewarm, because that's what comes out of the cold water tap when you live in a desert.

Your "room for improvement" lists basically sound reasonable; you may also want to try an expertly-honed reference edge at some point. That business about "resistance in areas with high density of growth" sounds like something that should not happen with a proper edge, at a proper (low) angle, with proper (lack of) pressure, but it could also just be that our whiskers are different.

Thanks for the tips.

I tried steaming hot water, ice cold water and randomly everything in between. Shower + lather and hot/cold towel marinating, only showering hot/cold, only marinating with lather and a towel, just splashing my face, lathering up and going for a shave...

I did have an opportunity to try an edge off a 0.1 micron diamond pasted balsa strop from the greatly generous @rbscebu . My experience with it was similar, so all the blame should be on my lack of technique. The only thing that slices through my hair effortlessly is a shavette loaded with a Feather blade or a Muhle R41 with the same blade. Milder DE razors require buffing. When I have a stubble and rub cheek to cheek with a lady, her face will go red. So I guess mine are really tough. Straight razor edge often does not slide and slice, it tends to kind of stop and needs a little push to go through the hair around my chin. Some places end up BBS after a single WTG stroke, some places are left with stubble, so I would bet money that it's just about getting the feel for every place around my face.

Randomly I get a really nice shave either with a DE or a straight (with my edge) like once a month. I just want to make it consistent.

 

[TheBeast]

For today's experiment, I separated my skincare routine and shaving.

Shover, mildest hydrating ph balanced sensitive blah blah facewash, Proraso Blue - as watery, runny and slick as it gets before dissapating into soapy water. Maximum effort on not pressing and keeping the angle at one spine's thickness at most and going over the same spot too many times.

I missed about 30-40% of whiskers. Razor seems to ignore them and slide over them (they grow really flat to the skin). In places where it cut, it did pretty close. Lather still dried out pretty quick so I splashed my face with water, dipped the brush in water and relathered real quick.

Alum, Thayer's witch hazel, nivea ultra sensitive balm.

Alum feedback was weaker, less sting, but still noticable. About 20 minutes after the shave I did not notice any excsessive redness or burn. It's definitely still there, but not as much as usual, so that's pretty good.

Tommorow I will most likely use my shavette again with the same routine. Just to see if a sharper edge makes any difference.

 

[JPO]

Lather still dried out pretty quick so I splashed my face with water, dipped the brush in water and relathered real quick.

If the lather dries out and/or dissipate you might need both more product and more water.
For me the lather is best when it feels like you have a wet towel on your face.

 

[Ravenonrock]

^this
I just load the heck out of my brush, gradually adding water as I face lather. Unlike some other SR shavers I really like a rich creamy lather that’s glossy. It works for me. I also limit the pre and post products I put on my face, good quality soap and water is my routine, nothing else.That being said, I don’t have overly sensitive or problematic skin, just don’t like a lot of different things hitting my face. A simple routine works best for me as I shave daily and usually do a single SR pass. My shaves are close and comfortable. Hope you enjoy discovering a routine that works best for you.

 

[CpnStumpy]

One thing you might work on is your stretching. You mentioned that you need to push through your whiskers a little bit as they'll stop the blade, and I wonder if your skin is bunching up under the blade at all. This can definitely make it a bit less comfortable, and the solution is stretching your skin so it doesn't bunch up when the edge tries to go over it.

You might try more and different stretches, really shove and pull the skin with your off hand when shaving as though it's playdough, can help make whiskers stand up to get a closer shave as well but definitely makes the edge slide more smoothly. Set your alum block or styptic on hand and rub it with your fingers to help them grip to pull and push your skin

 

[Darth Scandalous]

A couple ideas for you. One, if I'm showering before I shave (which is 90 percent of the time at least), I use a bit of shampoo on my face to soften my whiskers. Obviously you want to test this in case your face is more sensitive than your scalp. But, I find that this softens my whiskers better than preshave products. Actually I think it strips the oils from the whiskers and allows them to hydrate better when I lather up to shave. I start with warm water but I always end my shower with a cold rinse, as cold as it will go. It's a bit masochistic but it also wakes me up, leaves me feeling refreshed, and my skin is calm by the time I get upstairs to shave.

Second, there was a fellow on the board whose name escapes me, but I believe he lived in Bulgaria, also has a very tough beard. He went on a holiday to a ski resort in the mountains and found that the water there was much softer and he got much easier shaves. You might pick up a jug of purified or distlled water to use for making your lather and ser if it helps. It's a small investment, whether it works or not.

A third idea, if your lather is drying on you, only lather one section of your face at a time. I usually do about half my face at a time.

 

[TheBeast]

Thank you for suggestions. For today's shave, I used even more cream (I already was using quite a lot, or loading the brush like for a minute or two when using hard soap). I face lathered instead of palm lathering.

I aimed for denser lather but it seemed like the edge wasnt gliding as much/effortless as I would like it to. It was still shiny and glossy, I hate foamy lather which I see in 95% of shaving videos.

I stretched as much as possible and that allowed the razor to go through the hairs easier, and cut a little closer. Shave was Also more consistent, with much less missed spots.

The shave felt like a step in the right direction as it went quite Well, the razor didn't get stuck, didn't need any extra effort to cut dense growth.

But by the time I was done, my face started burning up. I Also got a few nicks, which I rarely do. Alum burned quite a lot on cheeks, around the chin and under the nose - which are usually the areas where everything is all right. The right side of my neck didn't burn nearly at All and the left side was a nightmare.

Perhaps my focus shifted away from the angle and Pressure while trying to stretch more and from different directions to get the skin as flat and taught as possible. But when I did stretch just the right amount, it felt a whole lot better. Even when I overdid it, the sole act of the razor going through the hair seemed spot on, one stroke - smooth, effortless, close shave. But in the end, it resulted in lots of irritation.


I will take a break for a day or two to have the skin in better condition for the next shave where I will attempt to keep streching more, but still really FOCUS on the angle and Pressure.

 

[TheBeast]

For today's experiment, after taking a shover I face lathered using only gentle paint-brush type strokes. Not even splaying and working the brush, like I do on my palm. Just gently, slowly painting and dipping the brush in water. Then I waited a couple of minutes. On my right cheek, I made sure I have the skin stretched and veeery slowly and carefully I did a few small strokes, making sure not to push at all. Rather make the razor BARELY touch the skin as purely an experiment.

About 10-15 minutes in I started feeling the tingle. I waited a couple more minutes, washed away the soap and used alum. It burned like hell on my whole face. The area that I VERY gently tried to shave was the worst. But the rest of the face wasn't too much behind. And I didn't shave there at all.

So it seems like I have very damaged skin. Most likely from using anti-acne products for a long time with effort to learn SR shaving. If gentle lathering with a synthetic cashmere brush and proraso blue which I used in the past with a DE no problem was enough to irritate me so much, something is off. I never had a chance to get a smooth shave to begin with, with the state of my skin.

Now it's most likely time to go back to short beard for a few weeks/months and visit a dermatologist. See you all when I get better.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

But the rest of the face wasn't too much behind. And I didn't shave there at all.

This sounds like a soap sensitivity to me. What are you using?

 

[Herrenberg]

For today's experiment, after taking a shover I face lathered using only gentle paint-brush type strokes. Not even splaying and working the brush, like I do on my palm. Just gently, slowly painting and dipping the brush in water. Then I waited a couple of minutes. On my right cheek, I made sure I have the skin stretched and veeery slowly and carefully I did a few small strokes, making sure not to push at all. Rather make the razor BARELY touch the skin as purely an experiment.

About 10-15 minutes in I started feeling the tingle. I waited a couple more minutes, washed away the soap and used alum. It burned like hell on my whole face. The area that I VERY gently tried to shave was the worst. But the rest of the face wasn't too much behind. And I didn't shave there at all.

So it seems like I have very damaged skin. Most likely from using anti-acne products for a long time with effort to learn SR shaving. If gentle lathering with a synthetic cashmere brush and proraso blue which I used in the past with a DE no problem was enough to irritate me so much, something is off. I never had a chance to get a smooth shave to begin with, with the state of my skin.

Now it's most likely time to go back to short beard for a few weeks/months and visit a dermatologist. See you all when I get better.

Proraso Blue contains menthol, according to the ingredients list on the Fendrihan site. A tingle would be expected.

 

[TheBeast]

I remember Proraso Blue having a gentle cooling effect when I first started using it, no tingle. When I say tingle, I mean more of a million tiny needles stinging kind of sensation. Not overwhelming but still there. This occurs with Every other soap/cream I tried:
Proraso white blue green
stirling
Tabac
Muhle
Saponifico verisino 70th edition
Arko
TOBS
Nivea

I always had trouble with shaving, mainly ingrowns on my neck. But all sorts of irritations as Well over a few years that I wet shave. This irritation from just lathering Also occured Once in the past. It seems as if my skin gets over worked and loses the ability to handle even mildest irritants, albeit mechanical or chemical.

 

[CpnStumpy]

Sorry to hear this, but I think you're on the right path to see a dermatologist. Hopefully they can help figure out why your skin reacts so strongly to shaving creams. For a test you might use a brush to lather a hairless patch on your forearm - if it grows red after a few minutes like your face did, I think you can rule out it being your face specifically and it's likely a reaction.

 

[TheBeast]

Sorry to hear this, but I think you're on the right path to see a dermatologist. Hopefully they can help figure out why your skin reacts so strongly to shaving creams. For a test you might use a brush to lather a hairless patch on your forearm - if it grows red after a few minutes like your face did, I think you can rule out it being your face specifically and it's likely a reaction.

I use my forearms to test my edges while honig. No problems there, even with a toothy edge off 1k without a perfectly set bevel, or any product ever. So the issue is just above the shoulders.

For today's experiment I trimmed my short beard a little bit, while another round of breakouts rule my face. I could not resist and after trimming the edges, I went for a shave on the neck to look Nice for the weekend.

Warm shower, Proraso Blue, shavette with a Feather, 2nd use. I slowed Down with Every movement, stretched thoroughly, and focused on barely touching the skin with the shavette with minimal angle, almost completely flat. And it was a great shave. I even went for a full second pass. Almost no Sting from alum and closer than I am used to. Very little, if any irritation after the shave (tough to tell sometimes, I'm pale and my skin goes red after scratching, using a towel vigorously etc., hot water, physical activity...), 12 hours later, no ingrowns in the making yet.

 

[TheBeast]

The last shave actually ended up froming some ingrowns on my neck. They don't stick around too long, but they do irritate the heck of my neck while they are clawing their way out. So they need about three to four days to grow out.

My skin got a lot better and my beard was driving me crazy so I went for a shave with a shavette. Same setup, little cleanup with R41 since I had a week's worth of growth.

Really close, really smooth, minimal burn from alum, but still some. I expect some ingrowns again, so there will again be a few days break.

Seems like progress has been established, I am getting the hang out of it and my skin is getting better. It may just not be able to handle every day shaving, since it is frequently breaking out, replacing skin cells etc, and I'm using a lot of chemical exfoliants to boost the process of sheding the old and generating the new layer. And it may even be able to handle everyday shaves, it just needs them to be done with a lot better technique than mine currently is. Anyhow, time will tell.

 

[TheBeast]

Feedback to the last shave...

Not using my facewash containing salycilic acid before the shave improves the issue of the lather drying out on me. I will try using proraso pre-shave again to see if this can be further improved.

While it was really good the first 12-24 hours, as expected, after 24 hours I develop some bumps. Mine are usually not inflamed, the hair just struggles to grow out and/or digs back into the skin as I have a curly beard, laying really low to the skin. I do exfoliate with a face wash containing salycilic acid. Also using a brush and a really sharp razor should be considered as exfoliating IMO. So the problem is most likely the fact that my hair is curly and grows pretty much flat with the skin.

It's fascinating that sometimes I get a shave that's pretty much perfect, results in no bumps but most of the time I still get those bumps... While doing the same shave... I would very much like to get to the bottom of this mystery and isolate the culprit.

Anyhow my skin is doing much better the last two days. The initial purging period seems to have stabilised after implementing some active ingredients into the skin care three weeks ago. I expect to still see breakouts for the next four to five weeks, as I can see and feel deep blemishes that should slowly be getting to the surface. But at least I look a bit better and feel much more so.

To contintue this trend of improvement (above the jawline only) I will be trying out some new soaps, that will hopefully work just a little better: Cella BIO, Speick, Palmolive Classic, MWF. All choices for sensitive skin. Maybe not the Palmolive - I just like trying cheap products, sometimes there are hidden gems among them.

To see if the bumps are somehow linked to the type of blade I use, I will swap to SR on the neck. SR edge seems to be much more consistent in producing a shave that does not result in bumps. Also I'll prepare a new batch of aspirin paste to speed up the healing to be able to shave more often.

 

[Frank Shaves]

If the cream/soap dries out, reapply. Don’t be afraid to go back to the well with your brush. Screw the BBS for now and shave with the grain. Don’t putz. Get in and get out. OCD-ing on an area will result in the removal of too many skin cells/exfoliation leading to irritation.

 

[TheBeast]

If the cream/soap dries out, reapply. Don’t be afraid to go back to the well with your brush. Screw the BBS for now and shave with the grain. Don’t putz. Get in and get out. OCD-ing on an area will result in the removal of too many skin cells/exfoliation leading to irritation.

I am reapplying lather usually in segments that I shave. Lather whole face, shave right cheek, reapply around the mouth, shave there etc. Before reapplying lather with the brush, I dip the tips in water.
I don't care for BBS - I hunt for consistent razor bump free result.
Always shaving with the grain.
Fighting my OCD is challenging, no doubt. But I do always keep in mind that a few missed hairs or inconsistent closeness in different areas is the least of my worries at this time. So I just focus to make every stroke count, cause I don't want to have the razor pass one place of my skin more than twice.

So 100% agreed. I would also add, screw all the other variables. For now.
1.Have a lather that seems to work nice. As long as it shines and doesn't dry, it's acceptable.
2.Keep the spine as close to the skin as you can, find that perfect balance of barely making contact with the edge to the skin.

That's it, great shave right there. In theory. Quite tricky to apply though. As others have said, they are learning even after years of SR shaving. So I stay focused on the basics. Everything other than that is just fun. Also writing it down helps cause otherwise my head is a mess.

 

[TheBeast]

OH WOW SO THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE

I am a happy little potato right now. Just had a shave and it went suprisingly well. I changed the routine to what I thought might be ideal for me and I'll be sticking to it for some time. Also switched back to freshly honed SR.

Lukewarm shower, no soap on the face.
Dripping wet face, a touch of Proraso White cream and a gentle and quick face wash with that.
Cold water rinse, but not too thourough.
Proraso White pre-shave, not too much, not too little, massage well.
Double the amount of Proraso White cream than I used in the past on the palm, lather until shiny, keep it fairly dense.
Wet the face with cold water, smear everything from the latherd palm onto face, dip the brush in cold water, paint the face. Dip a few times into the water for good measure, to make sure it stays hydrated, but don't over do it.

Stretch the skin to oblivion, shave a segment of the face.
Put a hand under running cold water and getnly wipe the shaved area to keep it moist and mostly clean from the remaining lather.
Dip the brush, re-hydrate the lather, move to another segment, repeat until shave is done.

Cold water rinse, not too thourough, alum.
Thourough cold water rinse.
Witch hazel, Nivea AS calming balm on the shaved area, Nivea cream on the rest.

KEEP THE BASICS IN MIND AT ALL TIMES, no buffing, as little angle as possible, no pressure at all.

And what a nice feeling after this one. No discomfort during or after. Here and there, the hair refused to be removed. Solved by re-hydrating the lather in that spot, stretching more and starting to move the razor before making contact with the skin.

Until now I would put the razor to the skin, check the angle, focus on not pressing and then start a stroke. That resulted in the edge digging in and making trouble. But having it touch the skin while already in motion helps a lot to make it feel effortless to remove hair, maybe also to keep the pressure at zero.

Alum feedback next to zero. Only felt some in places where I knew I messed up during the shave. So I'm starting to get a feel for it during the actual stroke. My edge feels keener, my face feels smoother and more comfortable, during and after. And I'm a whole lot happier.

Sure, not the closest or the most consistent shave in the history but hey, felt amazing. Closeness will come later.


Not to make y'all more happy then necessary, I'm starting to mess around with different techniques. My naniwa 12k superstone finnish feels alright, but I want to see how much it can be aproved apon and made perfect for my face. So I'm waiting for balsa and acryllic glass delivery to put together diamond paste loaded balsa strop. 0.5 and 0.25 um paste is ready, 0.1 should arrive just in time. Also ordered a chinese leather/denim strop. And a gold dollar. I want to see if making a micro-convex apex of the edge (only in the last few microns of the bevel) and thus improve keenness, but keep the rest of the bevel angle flat and more mass behind the edge will help the razor to go through my beard.

This is starting to be a lot more fun compared to the missery of when I started. Will update after this breaktrough shave to check in with my old friend - the razor bumps.