What is everyone here's favorite finishing hone? Does the Coticule provide a sharp enough edge for most people? Obviously this is a lot of YMMV talk, but I'm interested as I've been somewhat satisfied with the edge I get from a Chinese 12k, but if a Coti gets a razor just as sharp and smooth with much fewer strokes then I am definitely interested in upgrading. Coticule is not the only one I'm interested in, but whatever you find yourself reaching for the most when your edge isn't as sharp as it should be.
Favorite touch-up hone?
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I'm looking to buy a touch up stone now. So I am very interested as to what the rest of the forum recommends.
I disagree that a 12k makes a razor sharp.
If it isn't sharp after a 4k, a 12k will do nothing
If it isn't sharp after a 4k, a 12k will do nothing
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I raise a slurry on my 12k, then do a lot of x-strokes while adding water to dilute the slurry. Once it becomes plain water again, I continue until I hit over 120 strokes total. This has brought back my edges several times.
What does the C12k do that any barber hone can do better? The OP is specifically asking about touching up a razor I thought and sure, good luck setting a bevel with a 12k, but I have heard that this is a great touch up and/or polishing hone. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. Hope I am not 'cause I got one on the way along with a DMT 325 for lapping. I am just looking for a stone to maintain my edge as well and would if I could but can't afford a coticule at the moment.
I have a Keen Kutter Kombination barber hone that I get good results with.
naniwa 12K superstone.
I really don't get why the C12K are so popular. I would go insane doing 120 laps on a single stone after all the honing needed to be done to get there. This the same reason my Jnat hasn't been getting much use either.
If you want something cheaper than the Naniwa get a barber's hone.
I really don't get why the C12K are so popular. I would go insane doing 120 laps on a single stone after all the honing needed to be done to get there. This the same reason my Jnat hasn't been getting much use either.
If you want something cheaper than the Naniwa get a barber's hone.
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I've done my time with the 12k, so I agree with you. I'm starting to go insane when a razor needs a touch-up. 12k's are popular because they're cheap. I also hear they're great to use as a final polisher even after a touch-up hone such as a Naniwa, and also they would naturally require less strokes that way. I don't plan on getting rid of it as the edges I do end up getting from the stone are very very nice.
Roughly how many laps on average is needed from your Naniwa?
yes and the OP specifically mentioned finishing stones getting the razor sharp.
The sharpness comes at 4k.
12k+, barber hones, pastes and such can't sharpen a razor. All they do is smooth out the existing edge.
Surely the 'sharpness' comes once the bevel is set - any work after this is just refinement to a degree. I usually recondition old razors, so my bevel is set well in advance of 4k, and the razor is cutting arm hair at 1k.
When does sharpening become smoothing? In my opinion it is a progression of diminishing returns. Even leather has abrasive qualities, cotton more than leather and linen more than cotton - those combinations can keep a razor shave ready for a considerable time.
Regards,
Neil
Keeping an edge sharp is a lot easier than getting it sharp, provided we're not talking about damage, just normal wear and tear. A "shave ready" razor that is stropped properly only needs 4 or 5 passes occasionally on a finishing stone to maintain the edge. Even with a stone as slow cutting as a C12k or surgical black/translucent arkansas you should'nt need more than ten/twenty passes if all you're doing is maintaining an already sharp edge. With proper use a good strop and a C12k you could theoretically keep a razor sharp for the rest of your life.
I agree with neil my razors feel sharp after setting the bevel but they really spring into life when they hit the naniwa 5k.
I have found through lots of trial and error that a c12k isn't enough i need pastes otherwise i won't get that edge fine enough to take my whiskers off, once balsa stropped the shaves are superlative for me.
My favourite stone would indeed be my naniwa i plan on getting a 12k grit or that jks 10k stone when it becomes available.
I have found through lots of trial and error that a c12k isn't enough i need pastes otherwise i won't get that edge fine enough to take my whiskers off, once balsa stropped the shaves are superlative for me.
My favourite stone would indeed be my naniwa i plan on getting a 12k grit or that jks 10k stone when it becomes available.
I agree.
And when the OP says that he does 120 strokes on a 12k, I have to ask what is wrong with the edge that such overkill is required.
Reading this thread brings up many good points. To sharpen a razor you need a bevel setter and then I series of polishers. I use The progression of Naniwas 1,5,8, then finish on the 12K. After the bevel is set on the 1k, I only do about 20 laps at most per polisher since the Naniwas are fast cutters IMO. However, I sold my Chinese natural for two reasons. One being consistency and the other being time since I hone professionally. However, it does not take that long for somone honing only a few razors to do the 100-120 strokes the Chinese hone requires for best results. The slurry speeds things up, but not terribly.
I say that the chinese natural is the best value for the money out there. For finishing and touch-ups, it's as good as anything out there if used properly. I think the edge is better than a coticule, but there is NO versatility like that of a coticule. Plus with the costs of Eschers and the jnats being way overpriced IMO for a piece of rock, the Chinese natural looks better to me fir performance, plus you can get them pre-lapped on eBay.
In tfe end it's a calue judgment. You can't rehobe a razor without a few stones except for coticules, so if you only desire to touch up, go with the Chinese natural, if not sacrifice refinement by getting a coticule abd paste yourself a strop.
My opinion only, there is much great advice already given here.
I say that the chinese natural is the best value for the money out there. For finishing and touch-ups, it's as good as anything out there if used properly. I think the edge is better than a coticule, but there is NO versatility like that of a coticule. Plus with the costs of Eschers and the jnats being way overpriced IMO for a piece of rock, the Chinese natural looks better to me fir performance, plus you can get them pre-lapped on eBay.
In tfe end it's a calue judgment. You can't rehobe a razor without a few stones except for coticules, so if you only desire to touch up, go with the Chinese natural, if not sacrifice refinement by getting a coticule abd paste yourself a strop.
My opinion only, there is much great advice already given here.
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Maybe I am choosing the wrong words. I put off strokes on the 12k for probably too long of a time period, and the razor is not nearly as smooth as it used to be. I was using sharp in place of smooth, because while it does shave me, it definitely doesn't feel as good. It's a semantics issue. The meaning was understood by a few, so I apologize if my mixing up a word has ruined the whole thread. Let me also explain that my C12k is not the large sized one, but is only 150mm x 50mm which helps explain why I need so many laps. Now, the simple question I wanted to know, is if my edge isn't as smooth as it used to be, is a coticule with water enough to achieve a very refined edge, or is it still necessary to finish it off on a few strokes of the C12k? I'd like to cut time out of my touch up sessions.
I'm only talking about razors that have already had a bevel set, and have been sharp enough for shaving.
I'm only talking about razors that have already had a bevel set, and have been sharp enough for shaving.
Have you tried a Chinese 12K?
120 strokes is about normal for that hone, it is extremely slow acting....
Personally i cut down on the number of laps on the c12k and head for my flexcut gold which is around .6 micron and upwards, seems to work well for me plus having the balsa cuts down on the times i need the c12k anyway, but hey each to their own.
I have a dragons tongue that might work for you if lapped it fine bonus being they're cheap.
I have a dragons tongue that might work for you if lapped it fine bonus being they're cheap.
You carn't go wrong with a 10k or 12k naniwa to refresh your edge.
then perhaps you need to put 20 laps on an 8k first.
