Practice Razors For Honing Question

[A_Shaves_91]

Hi Gents,

As recommended, I am in search of some straights that I can start learning honing technique on. Starting out, I have the following honing supplies, Atoma 400 lapping plate, Shapton Pro 8k, Naniwa Super Stone 12k (20mm) and ChromOx on my canvas strop (.50 micron). I have only one razor currently, Ralf Aust 6/8th hallow that I purchased with professional honing services from the supplier. Does this gear set up seem like an okay starting point for someone just looking to be able to touch up their edges?

Background, I made the investment in these stones because though I'm new to SR shaving, I love it and am in it for learning journey! My goal is to maintain my edge as often as needed based on comfort and feel. For context, I'm coming from a DE background, my beard type destroys blade sharpness and keenness (i.e., I get maybe one to two uses from fresh Feather or Nacet blade before it's dull and I am forced to swap and I have a committed 5 o'clock shadow regardless the razor, blade that I am unable to tolerate ATG passes on, period).

Because I don't have the lower grit stones (and want to avoid the additional investment at this point early in the game - saving up for a Rigarazor or Koraat), I realize bevel setting is not practical. Thus, does anyone know where I can get a cheapo practice razors or two that already has a properly set bevel? I would go the eBay route or even Amazon but my thinking here is that those bevels won't be set at all and don't pose a good option for learning.

Thanks in advance for any help / insights!

 

[Koop]

Where are you located? I could set a bevel for you and even run it over a 5k rika to set it up for your 8k and 12k if you are anywhere near me. I'm in Mesa, Arizona.

 

[BobYourUncle]

I’m not a big fan of practice razors. Better to put the time on maintaining the razor you have. It’s a known quantity. Practice razors can easily develop a lot of bad habits via repetition.

 

[Seelector]

Your 8k Shapton and 12k Naniwa SS are perfect to keep your Aust in tip top shape.

I think I saw in one of your other posts that it’s starting to tug? I’d put on one layer of electric tape and start with the 12k. Mark both sides of the bevel with a sharpie and use that as a guide to ensure that you’re hitting the whole edge from heel to toe. The sharpie will guide you as to how much x-stroke and roll you need. When you get it right you will remove all the sharpie right to the apex with one light stroke on each side.

When you have a feel for it and are happy with the way your freshly touched up razor shaves, add the 8k into the mix.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Thanks a lot guys. Yeah, just got my stones in the mail today so I'm excited. Good to know about the practice razors and developing bad habits. Makes sense - like taking too much batting practice in baseball or range strokes in golf and throwing off your mechanics over time.

I only have 3 shaves on the Aust to date and can already slightly notice the tug and very minor pulling. Technique, feel and comfortability is improving. I had the bevel set by Razor Emporium when I bought it (paid extra) but I literally have no reference point (seeing as it's my first straight) outside of it passing HHT, fruit and nail tests. @Seelector, thanks for the sharpie trick and @Koop for the offer!

Would it make sense to be running my Aust and any other future daily driver on the 12k for some light duty tune up work every 3 - 5 shaves?

 

[Seelector]

I only have 3 shaves on the Aust to date and can already slightly notice the tug and very minor pulling

I was the same when I started, 3-4 shaves before it started to tug. My edges last a lot longer now though.

Would it make sense to be running my Aust and any other future daily driver on the 12k for some light duty tune up work every 3 - 5 shaves?

Absolutely makes sense. Touch it up on the 12k when you feel it start to tug. You’ll know when it’s not feeling right and hopefully notice a big difference after the touchup. Your honing skills will improve with time as well.

One sharpie trick I used to do (and still do sometimes) is to mark the edges then take one straight stroke on both sides. Nice and light, no roll and no x-stroke. See where the sharpie comes off. Now mark it again and do an x-stroke. See if you’re taking off more sharpie. Mark it again and add some roll to the x-stroke. Adjust as needed so that you’re taking off all the sharpie with one stroke. This will tell you what type of stroke your razor needs, every one is different. You might run into an eBay beater that’s impossible to clear the sharpie with one stroke, but I bet your Aust will be fine.

 

[Legion]

You have what you need to keep your razor shaving for a long time. Just touching up on your 12k will do the job.

The thing about honing is 90% of it is about the bevel setting. Touching up a razor is easy, anybody should be able to manage to do that. Setting a bevel properly can sometimes be a bit more tricky, and that is what you need to practice.

If I were you I would invest in a good bevel setter (maybe second hand, to save money), and then start picking up a few inexpensive vintage razors off ebay to practice on.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Thanks for the all the feedback and guidance. @Seelector, appreciate the detailed instructions and will give it a go on my Aust before my next shave in a day or two.

@Legion - this is my goal eventually and hope to round out my set with Shapton Pro 1.5k and 5k where I can practice on some vintage blades.

 

[Tanuki]

Just touching up on your 12k will do the job.

This is it in a nutshell. A light touch, no pushing the edge into the hone, is all you need. After some experience, touching up will be simple. No more than 10 to 20 laps in my experience. I'm a Naniwa 12k Superstone believer. The 20mm was the right choice. A light touch on the Atoma 400 is my recommendation as well. That 20mm won't warp as long as you remember it is splash and go, no soaking. I use just a splash of water and a little spritz of Krud Kutter. The slight color of swarf rinses off easily.

I personally am a fan of pasted balsa strops. I seldom need a hone for re-finishing, though I am prepared (over-prepared) to start playing with natural finishers.

Restoring edges and setting bevels is a completely separate affliction from maintaining an SR for good shaves.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yup, as said touching up and full bevel setting beaters are two different things. Beaters, more akin to repair work, Touch up, finishing.

Learn to touch up/ maintain your razor for your face and beard. You are off to a good start with a Super Stone 12k and Chrome Oxide. Look at the edge, straight down on the edge. If you see shiny reflections, you need to go back to the 12k and hone until you do not see any reflections. Looking at the edge and Sharpie ink can teach you a lot. I look at each edge and ink the bevels of every razor I hone.

It should not take many laps or pressure as 12k’s are/can be aggressive. A bit of diamond slurry can make them more aggressive if needed. Keeping a 12k clean, black swarf free will improve the edge, I use a nylon scrubbing sponge and Melamine. Swarf will tear up a good edge. Google (12k Chip removal, Bevel setting).

The trick is learning to strop, mastering stropping. Chrome Oxide is about 20-30K, it will polish an edge, but it also can roll an edge (in a single stroke). If you have a very heavy beard, you might try 1um film or .03um, they will make a very aggressive edge that works well with super heavy beards.

Also .50 or smaller, CBN and Diamonds can get you there, but does take some experimentation, again your results will depend on your stropping mastery.

Ensure that you are stropping on clean linen, post shaving to keep your bevel and edge clean. The keener you get your edge, the easier it is for oxidation to degrade it.

Stropping, improper stropping, stropping on a contaminated strop (doesn’t take much) or too much pressure will quickly degrade an edge. Until you master stropping, paste and or film can keep you shaving at a high level, and a clean 12k can set you up for paste or film easily.

Proper stropping on clean linen and leather can keep you shaving for a long time.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Yup, as said touching up and full bevel setting beaters are two different things. Beaters, more akin to repair work, Touch up, finishing.

Learn to touch up/ maintain your razor for your face and beard. You are off to a good start with a Super Stone 12k and Chrome Oxide. Look at the edge, straight down on the edge. If you see shiny reflections, you need to go back to the 12k and hone until you do not see any reflections. Looking at the edge and Sharpie ink can teach you a lot. I look at each edge and ink the bevels of every razor I hone.

It should not take many laps or pressure as 12k’s are/can be aggressive. A bit of diamond slurry can make them more aggressive if needed. Keeping a 12k clean, black swarf free will improve the edge, I use a nylon scrubbing sponge and Melamine. Swarf will tear up a good edge. Google (12k Chip removal, Bevel setting).

The trick is learning to strop, mastering stropping. Chrome Oxide is about 20-30K, it will polish an edge, but it also can roll an edge (in a single stroke). If you have a very heavy beard, you might try 1um film or .03um, they will make a very aggressive edge that works well with super heavy beards.

Also .50 or smaller, CBN and Diamonds can get you there, but does take some experimentation, again your results will depend on your stropping mastery.

Ensure that you are stropping on clean linen, post shaving to keep your bevel and edge clean. The keener you get your edge, the easier it is for oxidation to degrade it.

Stropping, improper stropping, stropping on a contaminated strop (doesn’t take much) or too much pressure will quickly degrade an edge. Until you master stropping, paste and or film can keep you shaving at a high level, and a clean 12k can set you up for paste or film easily.

Proper stropping on clean linen and leather can keep you shaving for a long time.

This is some great insight. Thanks for the detail. The sharpie trick is sounding like a winner. I will watch some YouTube vids further to make sure I am doing it right / am understanding the concept fully.

Re the paste, I'm glad to hear the .50 (green chrom ox, I believe) was a good call. I went back and forth on also buying .10 (red iron ox paste) but it would have required another canvas strop that I didn't want to shell out any more money for at this point.

Great to know about the stropping and finishing on clean linen/canvas and then moving to leather and not rolling your edge after light duty 12k stone work. I will experiment and go off blade comfort and feel. Appreciate all the help.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

You can experiment with paste, by pasting a piece of cardboard, inside of a cereal box cut a 3 inch wide strips, paste 3 inch X’s and strop on the edge of a table or bench so your knuckles do not hit the bench.

Or you can buy 2 inch cotton or nylon strapping from any fabric store, $2-5 per yard and attach to a 2 inch D ring with iron fusing tape, also at fabric stores. D rings are available from any good hardware or on line. You can make multiple strops for $10 or free from cereal box.

Ink, especially colored ink will show you with the naked eye, where/how the bevel is sitting on the stone, and you can adjust your technique and most importantly, if you are honing to the edge.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Hi Gents,

Reporting back re the first honing session on my Aust.

I started by lapping the Naniwa 12k after etching with pencil and learned quickly the benefit of lapping under running water vs not. My Atoma 400 stuck to the 12k stone like chewing gum to the bottom of a shoe. I just rinsed the 12k well before lapping and did not soak it. Using two hands and proceeding very slowly, I started with some gentle straight down and back round trips. I didn’t use the sharpie trick because I couldn’t figure out if I was supposed to mark the blade or just the edge (as in the very bottom of the blade). Watched a YouTube video to no avail and didn’t want to mark up the razor without understanding for sure. Also, I started with tape and just didn’t like the feel of it so I took it off it and proceeded. The razor did come from razor emporium honed with tape. I couldn’t even tell you how many laps I did as I was too focused on not gouging my edge. Maybe 10? Following, I tried some x strokes which didn’t go well. I found my blade slipping unevenly off the stone due to improper pressure when moving from heal to toe. Maybe another 9 laps? I then went to the linen strop and did about 25 laps, then to leather and did 20 where it was at this point that I realized I put a few small slits up at the very top and very bottom of my strop. Fun stuff. Think I can sand them out with some fine grit.

I then went back to the Naniwa 12k suspecting that I had rolled my edge or something another and tried a few circle laps. Again, not great. Maybe 3 or 4 round trips followed by 5 straight down and backs. I lastly decided to finish with about 4 trailing laps and the repeated linen and canvas stropping regiment.

Believe it or not, the shave was very nice! It also helps hugely that I am starting to truly appreciate just how critical technique is and am slowly improving. Beginners luck on the edge I guess.

Would love any additional feedback / insights as I’m sure there is a whole host of things I’m done wrong here. Thanks. Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

You want to soak the stone a few minutes before lapping, but under running water will work.

The goal is to flush/un-clog the swarf from out of the diamond plate, in addition to not sticking to the stone it will prevent pulling out the diamonds from the plate. Use lots of water or lap under a sink or tub of water and periodically rinse the diamond plate clean. It will cut faster, and the plate will last a long time.

If you use lots of water, you can get aggressive to lap the stone flat. It may take a few cycles of pencil gridding and lapping to get to flat. Lapping a new stone once will generally not get it flat, the swarf washes off the pencil grid and the stone is still not flat.

The stone is flat when you can remove the pencil grid completely in 10 laps or less. Make sure to bevel or round the edges, lapping will make them sharp and if you drag a pristine bevel and edge over it can ruin a bevel and edge.

To ink a bevel, use the side of the sharpie tip along the bevel, ensuring that the whole bevel is inked and especially the edge. With a bit of practice, you can ink each bevel in a single swipe.

You want to use tape, new honers normally use too much pressure and do too many laps and trash a spine quickly. There is no downside to using tape. Once you master honing, then decide if you want to continue to use tape.

Cut in a strop can be glued down with rubber cement and a toothpick. If you are cutting your strop, you are flipping while the razor is still in forward motion. Do a stroke, stop then flip the razor.

When doing any honing, you do what the razor needs. First look straight down on the edge with magnification, if you see shiny reflections, those are chips or a rolled edge, hone until all the shiny reflections are gone.

First ink the bevels and do a single lap, look at the bevels. How much ink is removed and where will tell you if the razor is sitting flat on the stone and if you are honing to the edge.

If it was honed with tape and you honed without tape 20 lite laps may not be enough to completely cut a new bevel and edge.

 

[Frank Shaves]

A few random thoughts.

I constantly monitor my work using a loupe. I prefer a loupe without a LED. Belomo 10x Triplet for me.

I pay attention to how the edge undercuts the water and how the blade feels on the hone. Feeling the blade sticking to the stone is usually a good indication of you are getting there.

Finish each stone with little to no pressure. My theory on this is that you are minimizing the depth of the scratch marks.

And finish lapping with little to zero pressure.

Learn to use x-strokes. Then, after these feel comfortable, learn to slightly raise and lower the heel and toe during the stroke to ensure that every millimeter of the edge maintains contact with the edge through the x-stroke. These are called rolling x-strokes. The edge of many razors do not form a straight line and, therefore, require a rolling x-stroke.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

Thanks for the insights guys. Had another honing go and employed the methods mentioned discussed with much better results. I had a much improved shave between blade angle, slight pressure, short strokes and skin stretching in addition to feeling the edge was more comfortable overall. Also taped the spine and feel like that made a difference for what it’s worth. I also am feeling slightly better about stropping. I thinking of experimenting with chrom ox paste next .50 micron following my 12k stone. Appreciate the ongoing feedback!

 

[Frank Shaves]

You just got to keep on keepin’.