That wisnae incoherent mumbling, that was Scoatish so it wuz.
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Doctor Who - Warning, Spoilers!
- Thread starter Edcculus
- Start date
Tomato, tomahto.
Enough with these Scottish doctors ... let’s go back to the good old Tennant days.
When they forced the Scots to speak English.
And a sequel to Justice League's post above.
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OK, let me put it another way. If you can't find any Capaldi episodes to love, I'm afraid you don't actually like Doctor Who. I know you'll claim you do, but you just don't. You like Doctor Who in the way I say I like CSI - I actually like Grave Danger (series 5.23/24) and the miniature killer episodes of season 7; I couldn't care less about the lore, history or characters, but damn, they nailed a couple of great stories.
You can not like Capaldi and still enjoy Doctor Who - Colin Baker was largely rubbish, but Trial of a Timelord is a fantastic story, if for no other reason than it added the Valeyard.
It's not possible that I could disagree more. And I can wax lyrical on why Matt Smith is the best Doctor until the cows come home. Tennant and Ecclestone are great actors, but doing Heaven Sent or Listen? Laughable.
Pertwee would have been nearer. Tom Baker would probably have had the best chance of equalling Capaldi.[/QUOTE]
*Scottish*
Twaddle and pish. Of the highest order.
Those episodes were specifically written for Capaldi's Doctor; of course you can't throw Tennant/Eccleston's Doctor in the exact same script. Imagine trying the reverse. It just doesn't work for the majority of the episodes. Now, I think either of those two would be more interesting to watch in similar episodes. But I honestly thought both of those episodes fell flat. Started interesting, got worse as time went on.
Personally, I do blame Moffat for a decline in the series. I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time Moffat took the reigns the feel of the show changed, and not for the better. The new series previously placed an emphasis on the Doctor and company stumbling into problems and having to figure a way out of it. During Moffat's reign the show has had too much focus on the Doctor himself, on how important and great and powerful he is. Whole convoluted plot lines sprout up where practically everything that happens in the universe revolves around him. Smith caught the worst of it, but I'm not terribly impressed with the way Capaldi's era went either. I definitely enjoyed some episodes, but it was rather hit-or-miss. I also think it was a mistake to have Capaldi come right after Smith. Capaldi's style is quite different from the other three, and that alone may have driven off many series fans.
I would agree with this. Capaldi and Smith are like yin and yang. But then the switch to Colin Baker from Peter Davison gave me whiplash too. Sylvester McCoy was the correction (and didn’t like that one much either).
I sort of see what you're saying there, but it's a strange objection - it would be rather like complaining that Sherlock had far too much Sherlock and not enough Mrs Hudson.
And I think this is the issue - There aren't 3 doctors before Capaldi, there's 11. Fans of Nu Who (Doctors 9-12) might find Capaldi jarring, especially after a string of largely nice Doctors - although Smith definitely played with the darker side - "Good men don't need rules, why do you think I have so many of them".
Capaldi is probably closer in tone to 1, 3, 4 and 7 - Ecclestone, Tennant and Smith all have a touch of 5 in them. But then Peter Davison was jarring after Tom Baker, as was Colin Baker after Peter Davison. Patrick Troughton couldn't haven been less like Hartnell if he had tried. The changes have always been distinct, that's sort of the point - the Doctor is a whole new person. Sort of. Capaldi is much more representative of classic Who.
I'm no Dr Who expert, but I liked Clara. Her legs in those black tights were hypnotic for me. Anyone?
Clara was a beauty on many levels.
If I understand the objection, it’s not about screentime but character direction. He’s been turned into “space Jesus” instead of a wandering hobo oddball who stumbles into adventures.
If you assume one time jaunt a week on average (seems fair) and considering the Doctor is over 2,000 years old, that would be more than 100,000 different points of time he's interacted with. I imagine that would be noticed.
He did also end the time war that was going to destroy all of time and space. That's bound to get a bit of brand recognition
I liked several of Capaldi's episodes, I didn't care for the Clara/Danny/Cyberman Danny arc, but the Raven was tremendous, minus the end result. I didn't care for the follow up though.
To me it just seemed Capaldi's episodes were overly scattered as a Doctor. Am I a good man started the scattering about, but it never seemed to stabilize. Like he was constantly inwardly questioning himself, never settling into his being the Doctor.
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To me it just seemed Capaldi's episodes were overly scattered as a Doctor. Am I a good man started the scattering about, but it never seemed to stabilize. Like he was constantly inwardly questioning himself, never settling into his being the Doctor.
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That's a pretty good way of putting it. What I was going to say is that the first four seasons generally revolved around a story that our protagonists got thrown into, and in the natural progression of things it would show us how clever the Doctor is. But, the story was (usually) just as important, fun, or interesting as the main characters.
During the Moffat era they switched to telling us just how brilliant and special the Doctor is. Constantly. Smith's entire run was basically for the Doctor, about the Doctor. Sure, there were one-offs that more-or-less followed the previous formula. But Smith's entire run was a convoluted mess of a "plot" in which everything in the galaxy must be about the Doctor. There's a problem? Well, turns out it has to do with one (or more) of his enemies setting him up in some way. And, repeatedly, they use the gag of "I'm the Doctor. You've heard of me. I'm unarmed. Run away." *cue the legions of baddies fleeing in terror* It was funny and clever the first time. Not so much the fifth.
Sorry, to clarify, I meant fans of the new series. I know that there's an original series, but I have absolutely no interest in watching it. And I get the feeling that I'm not exactly alone with that sentiment. So, in the new series, Capaldi is completely different from the rest of the Doctors, with he and Smith being pretty much polar opposites. Quite different, and not everyone cares for that kind of abrupt change. If there had been a different order, say Eccleston right before Capaldi, it might have been a smoother transition for (newer) fans. But no, baby-face Smith turned into stern(ish) Capaldi, who just sort-of gets angry at everything and can't figure out how to smile. That "dark side" quote from Smith was pretty funny. I really like the line, but I just can't take Smith's appearance/voice seriously.
Moffat pretty much turned the series into a superhero/supervillain show. And that's the same thing that I didn't care for in the third season finale. Less adventure, more bad-guy being bad because, uh, they're bad. And targeting our pucky hero. On a semi-related note, I really don't care for the sendoffs Moffat's era has had for the companions. Oh, and Moffat ruined the Weeping Angels. Considering "Blink" was my first ever episode, I'm rather irked by that.
A couple of rebuttals as I think you're being a tad unfair to Moffat while Saint RTD gets a pass.
Eccleston had Bad Wolf. A message integrated into the fabric of time and space just because Rose would eventually become one with the Time Vortex.
We are are also introduced to the concept of the Time War and know that the Universe was threatened but the Doctor saved it by destroying both Time Lord's and Gallifrey.
Tennant, where we get a bit more eking out of the Time War and his role, a couple of prophecies centered around the Doctor, Davros declaring him Destroyer Of Worlds. His importance to the Universe is spelled out in huge letters in Turn Left, where stars start blinking out because he died in this alternate reality.
We also get Tennant as Messiah in Last Of The Time Lords. Quite literally.
One last point. Moffat created the Weeping Angels. He wrote Blink, as well as Girl in the Fireplace, The Empty Child and Silence In the Library. I can't think of better episodes under RTD.
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Eccleston had Bad Wolf. A message integrated into the fabric of time and space just because Rose would eventually become one with the Time Vortex.
We are are also introduced to the concept of the Time War and know that the Universe was threatened but the Doctor saved it by destroying both Time Lord's and Gallifrey.
Tennant, where we get a bit more eking out of the Time War and his role, a couple of prophecies centered around the Doctor, Davros declaring him Destroyer Of Worlds. His importance to the Universe is spelled out in huge letters in Turn Left, where stars start blinking out because he died in this alternate reality.
We also get Tennant as Messiah in Last Of The Time Lords. Quite literally.
One last point. Moffat created the Weeping Angels. He wrote Blink, as well as Girl in the Fireplace, The Empty Child and Silence In the Library. I can't think of better episodes under RTD.
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You are comparing two eras out many. The classic series also has many gems worth watching.
RTD put out some really cringy episodes. I can name lackluster episodes in every other era, but none that make me actually cringe. Take away all the Moffat episodes from RTD era and it's very hit or miss: The Doctor dances, arguably 9s best episode. Silence, blink, fireplace, etc etc
Our Lord and savior Tennant had the universe sing to him as he went on a best hits tour. Probably my least favorite regeneration out of all 13 so far on rewatch. I actually liked Tennant's first regeneration better, it was heart breaking until the following week when they undid it. He finally sees Rose and BOOM.
Bad Wolf was basically a bunch of Easter eggs left floating around hinting at the season finale, which started out following the same "stumble into bad situations" plot. Though I admit I'm not overly fond of Rose/her mom, particularly in that finale.
Again, not fond of the Time War. Time travel, once open to the masses, (and especially used for conflict) is a whole messy can of worms nested inside a can of worms, inside another can of worms, etc. But I seem to recall the Time War being part of old Who, so it'd be awkward to totally ditch it.
Moffat was a wonderful writer in seasons 1-4. I'd be happy to see his name on the opening credits because then I could assume we were in for another great episode. He was at his best writing 1-2 episodes that were neatly wrapped-up as stand-alones.
By the way, being the creator doesn't mean you can't ruin something. Just look at George Lucas.
Again, not fond of the Time War. Time travel, once open to the masses, (and especially used for conflict) is a whole messy can of worms nested inside a can of worms, inside another can of worms, etc. But I seem to recall the Time War being part of old Who, so it'd be awkward to totally ditch it.
Yeah, nearly every episode you mention I didn't care for. Can't argue that. Though I think there's still a distinction between having several episodes set-up like that and having entire seasons devoted to bad guys with complex plans slowly coming after the Doctor. The Silence? The Question? Riversong's backstory? But, clearly, not everyone agrees with my opinion. And that's okay.
Moffat was a wonderful writer in seasons 1-4. I'd be happy to see his name on the opening credits because then I could assume we were in for another great episode. He was at his best writing 1-2 episodes that were neatly wrapped-up as stand-alones.
By the way, being the creator doesn't mean you can't ruin something. Just look at George Lucas.
Turn Left is on deck for the night- watched Midnight before coming to work (really liked it)
All those are at or near the top of my list, so far.
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