You had some experience with this when you were younger. Please tell us that story again, Uncle John!
Carrying pistol with/without round chambered
- Thread starter Acmemfg
- Start date
You had some experience with this when you were younger. Please tell us that story again, Uncle John!
You had some experience with this when you were younger. Please tell us that story again, Uncle John!
LOL, no it never actually happened, I just could envision it though, gun hits the floor, fumbling to retrieve it, accidentally kicking it so that it skids across the floor under the stall door out into the open. Would make a great scene in a comedy cop movie!
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
There was an article in a gun rag, in the section where readers send in letters with their story, and the guy did exactly that. I'll have to find the article again.
Okay, I'm going to tell a true story when I actually failed in my situational awareness and failed to carry a round properly chambered.
Oklahoma first passed concealed carry in 1989. So by 92' I was a young, college bound, pistol packing man. When I carried, holstered on my waist, my Gen2 G19 was always chambered. However, I occasionally carried in a 'booty bag' around my waist.
Hey, laugh all you want, but they were in style back then.
Admittingly, they were on the way 'out of style' so I quit carrying it around my waist and started just throwing the bag over my shoulder, from the extended belt strap, which I had adjusted all the way open, so it could hang from shoulder sorta like a satchel.I don't know why, but it made me nervous back then, to carry that bag over my shoulder with a round chambered. I know, I should have just decided to quit carrying it like that, but instead, made the blind decision, to just stop chambering a round when I did carry like that.
at the time, I was driving my first 'pimp mobile', which was a red Chevy Astro, that had the back seats taken out. Don't even ask! (to be honest, it was because I thought I was the 'doctor of luuuuvvvv.')
Anyhoo, one weekend night, about 11:30 pm I drove across town to visit my older brother. I would always stop by a drive up pay phone a block from his house and call, just to make sure he wasn't 'entertaining guests' before I dropped in. So as I was sitting in my Astro, talking to him on the phone, my G19 was in this 'booty bag' zipped up, unchambered and sitting on the floor next to me, between the two captain's chairs in the front.
As I was talking to him, this other brotha, walked up from behind my van on my driver's side; and I never looked in my rearview to see his approach, because I was busy talkin' and not trying in the least, to pay attention to what was going on around me. When the dude walked up on my window, he pretty much stuck his head inside the window.
He immediately, asked me if I had a light for a cigarette. At that same time, I immediately noticed, 1. he didn't have a cigarette, and 2. he slipped both of his hands into his jacket pockets. I was pretty scared, to say the least. I could feel the hair standing up on the back of my neck and I could feel the sudden rush of adrenalin, coursing thru my veins.
Remember now, his head is in my window. Both of our noses are not but 6-8 inches away from each other, while we are talking. I had actually put the receiver to the phone in my lap, and I knew my brother could hear what was going on from his end, because I could hear him yelling into the phone, "Rob, where are you!"
While I was trying to tell the guy, that I didn't smoke and didn't have a lighter, at the same time, I was taking my right hand and reaching for the bag. I got the zipper on the bag open "just enough" to get my hand in. I even got my hand, around the grip of my Glock. The problem was, the opening was so small, the bag got caught on my hand and I couldn't pull the pistol out! I kept easily trying to shake it off my hand while this guy was talking to me, but the bag would not come off my hand!
All of a sudden, I saw the dude's hands start to come out of his pockets. I could see in his right hand, the shiny, chromed butt, of a gun. As I saw this, I sorta freaked; and in a last desperation attempt, rose my right hand up, and gave that bag, one last good sling. The bag came off my hand and as I was moving to point my Glock 19 at him, he was moving, to point his Jennings .380 at me.
We pointed both our guns at each other at the exact same time. The only problem was, when I put my finger on the trigger, the trigger was all the way back, and I immediately realized, there wasn't a round in the chamber!
So, there we were. He's pointing his .380 at me, and I'm pointing, my unloaded 9mm Glock at him. I saw his gun, he saw mine. He didn't know, my gun wasn't loaded. All I could do, was point my gun and kept saying to him, "sup brah?" "you want some of this?" "Sup, brah?"
And only by the grace of God, I think, he just saw that my gun was bigger then his gun, and he took off and ran away into the dark. My legs and hands and voice was trembling so bad, as I picked up the phone receiver that I had sat in my lap, and tried to get words out to speak to my brother, who heard everything going on.
My brother said, "Rob, I heard everything, don't try and talk, just get over here now." I drove the block to his apartment, and he was already outside waiting on me in the parking lot. He gave me the biggest hug, he had ever given me. I realized right then, though I was really scared, he had been even more scared for me.
I also decided, I would never go unchambered, ever again. That was 26 years ago. And I never have since.
I have learned alot since then and have even earned and carry a badge going on 21 years now, come August. I have been in many scary situations in that time. But the difference is, I am always the one in control now. I wasn't in control then.
My whole existence and life, might have never even come to fruition, because I was simply not prepared and in control at that one, single moment in time, when I should have been.
Last edited:
Oh that story! My introduction to Long Island Ice Teas! When I woke up on the floor of the ladies bathroom AFTER closing time. So far no lady friends have remarked on the incident to this day. Not my finest hour, but sure had a good time, at least until I had to walk home in the snow!
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
Wasn't there an old song that went something like "The bathrooms all get prettier at closing time."
I have a story of hyper-situational awareness, that probably could of ended badly but didn't. I had spent a day of shooting, doing all kinds of tactical drills, CQB stuff, etc. I was driving home alone on a long stretch of rural interstate. I was well armed with a few hand guns, knives, impact weapons, OC spray. Pitty the fool who crossed me.... Anyways, it's dark and I see a car on the shoulder with it's emergency flashers on in the middle of no where. As I get closer, I see a young female waving me down, but also noticed a male companion in the background. Looks like it could be a classic ambush. Instead of pulling over close to the disabled vehicle I passed it up and pulled over about 100 yds ahead. I sat there and watched in my rearview mirror and made them come to me. I sat there gun in hand down by my side out of sight. Initially only the girl approached my drivers side window, partially rolled down so she could speak but not easily reach in. She explained their situation, wanting a ride just to the next exit a couple of miles away. I agreed to give them a lift, she walked back to get her male companion. I kept a gun handy on my left and allowed them to get in on the passengers side. I carefully observed their approach to my vehicle, nothing seemed out of place. She had to sit on her boyfriends lap, which would kind of anchor him in place and hopefully prevent any mischief. As I drove the short distance to the next exit all went well and they were dropped off at a service station. Had they made a move on me, it would have ended badly for them, hopefully not for me, but the legal mess would be most unpleasant, to say the least.
I was talking about the other story, when you woke up in the bathroom at the bar?
Yeah, that one was down right inviting. The problem was it was no where near closing time when I made a wrong turn! But they were sweeping the floors and stacking the chairs when I stumbled out of there!
none of those holseters meed FL CCW requirements. Fl requires a strap to go across the weapon
- Thread starter
- #131
Huh???
Please let me know exactly where you found that bit of information.
Please let me know exactly where you found that bit of information.
We have a name for guns with nothing in the pipe. “Dead mans gun”
Depends on the gun. Several of mine are meant to be carried with the chamber empty.
And which would those be? Anything post 1900 design date?
It does, but I'm left handed so I don't use it. Ironically (given my original stance in this thread), putting the safety on is a bridge too far for me.
Well, I was going to recommend a safety-equipped M&P, but there goes that idea.
Other than the left-handed thing, I don't know why it's a bridge too far. There are a number of handgun models out there with ambi safeties, might be worth a look. When I carried a striker-fired handgun I never got terribly comfortable with it--psychological, I know. When I switched to a Shield with safety I felt much better--logical or not. Everybody's got their own comfort zone. Pay no attention to the keyboard ninjas who will tell you that a safety will get you "kilt in da streetz." 1911 carriers have been using a gun with a safety for over 100 years.
Just train for it. I have thousands of draws, live fire and dry, under my belt, and I don't expect to forget to take the safety off, because I don't have to remember--with enough reps it becomes an automatic behavior.
Do check out other holsters--there are a number of single-clip tuckable IWB holsters (which I prefer for the Shield) that don't move around enough to muzzle anybody. Here's one right here. And a proper belt (intended for holster wear or not) is not an option, it's a necessity. There are a couple of good threads about same right on the first page. Also, if you're going to carry, you need to keep the belt tight enough so the holster doesn't move around that much. Just part of the deal.
Back on topic, one of my trainers once told me 1. a gun without a round in the chamber is an unloaded gun, and 2. an unloaded gun is a club--and not a very good one.
My friends in the IDF, Israeli Defense Forces and those trained in Israel primarily carry without a round in the chamber, Condition Three, and usually carry Glock 17's and 19's. Some have carried Sigs and CZ's over the years, almost all carry 9mm. They train without the round being chambered and watching them draw, their instincts are impeccable and ultra fast.
I always have a round in the chamber in my pistols, usually the Glock 19, Glock 20SF and the Dan Wesson CCO 1911 .45ACP, Condition One. I train with the round in the chamber as many folks here in the U.S. do as well.
Carry how you feel most comfortable and safe.
I always have a round in the chamber in my pistols, usually the Glock 19, Glock 20SF and the Dan Wesson CCO 1911 .45ACP, Condition One. I train with the round in the chamber as many folks here in the U.S. do as well.
Carry how you feel most comfortable and safe.
Slightly. A Smith & Wesson DA model 4 from 1902-1903. But also several SAAs from the 1970s and early 1980s.
Others from about the same period and similar styles I feel more comfortable carrying with a round under the hammer. Surprisingly it is ones like the turn of the century Smith & Wessons (and of course the SAAs & clones) where I have concerns. I have more confidence in the period guns from Hopkins & Allen and Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson than the early Smiths.
Obviously clones of the SAA without a safety transfer bar like current Ruger single actions should be carried with the hammer over an empty cylinder charge hole, but in order to fire said guns, the hammer must be cocked, which would bring a loaded cartridge in line and be ready to fire. But the hammer would have to be cocked first no matter how many charged holes were filled. So that is not really the same as carrying a modern gun with an empty chamber. It has the same level of readiness, just one fewer shot available.
This story should be carved in granite for all to see. It contains great wisdom.
Carry what you practice with. Practice with your carry gun (including just handling it) till everything about it is as familiar as your other hand. If you are afraid of a negligent discharge, get a different firearm and/or more practice till you no longer have that fear.
I have often heard the 1911 called the 'expert's gun'. I own more than a dozen of them and have to admit that such a statement may very well be accurate. Pistols with manual safeties have gotten the people holding them killed while they were trying to pull the trigger.
I like cocked and locked (condition 1). I have been handling, shooting, and carrying 1911s for 40 years. However, it would NEVER be my first recommendation for a first carry pistol. I always recommend a "point and shoot", such as a revolver or a Glock.
Guns are dangerous. They would be utterly worthless if they weren't. There is no making them safe when carried, other than unloaded and as stated, that can get you killed.
Your mindset is probably the most important thing you will have if/when that time comes. If you care whether or not the goblin lives or dies, your chances of survival just went way down.
Become an expert. Remain an expert, and remember; the lives of all the criminals who have ever existed or ever will exist in total, are not worth your life or the lives of your loved ones.
I know that's harsh, but life isn't always soft and gentle.
Bill.
