Body armour and humidity...

[ScotchDave]

Hey there gents,

I was just watching platoon and realised that, unless I'm mistaken, todays body armour would make such a conflict rather difficult for the soldiers. When working doors I used to wear a vest and that was hot and horrible in Britain. So, I was wondering how the army would get around that problem? Seeing as there's a lot of military folk around here I thought they might be able to tell me.

Ta,

Dave

 

[Thebigspendur]

Actually most law enforcement people in the U.S wear body armor whenever they are on duty. Its worse for them because the military vests are worn outside and are pretty loose. The officers who wear armor wear it under their uniforms and its very tight fitting. You can get coolmax undershirts with thick ribs in it but there is no way around the fact its uncomfortable especially in hot humid weather. They have improved the stuff making it thinner over the years but either way it doesn't breath. However in exchange for the discomfort you are getting protection so its your choice.

 

[stobes21]

Actually most law enforcement people in the U.S wear body armor whenever they are on duty. Its worse for them because the military vests are worn outside and are pretty loose...

As I understand it cops generally wear thinner and lower rated body armor designed to stop handgun bullets and knives, whereas troops wear the thicker stuff designed to stop rifle bullets. This may negate some of the differences that you mentioned.

 

[Kratos]

You are quite right, Luke. That class IV armor is a completely different animal than our wimpy class II and IIIA(if you're dept is rich) armor. It is much thicker, heavier, and stiffer.

Some of our special units wear their vests on the out side. It's a little better than wearing it close, under our non-breathable, water-repellent uniforms. If you chase somebody down or get into a fight you'll be sweating like a runaway slave. You'll never see me without it, though. I may try some ribbed undershirts. Currently I use Wal-Marts cheapos, and Starter spandex shirts.

 

[blackfoot]

I'm not military or a police officer. But I wear a vest too, a IIIA actually. Kratos, I am not wealthy, for the record. I just got it a couple of months ago and got a great deal at about 1/3 the normal cost. I still have to wear mine concealed. Most of the departments around here make the outer carriers optional. Almost everyone on the city dept has gone to those. I am hoping we can next year, but I'm not holding my breath. The thing that frustrates me is, if you get into a fight or something, as mentioned you sweat something terrible. However, it doesn't seem like you can cool back down to normal for hours unless you can take it off.

BTW, most law enforcement armor does not stop knives. Some have special plate inserts for this purpose but you give up dexterity and add weight.

 

[ScotchDave]

I should clarify, my fear is that: if the current US/UK army was sent to war in a tropical climate in interceptor/osprey body armour, they'd be seriously operationally compromised by the extra heat, in a hot and humid environment i.e. heat stroke etc...

Does anyone know if this is a justified fear? Also would they be sent into combat in such conditions with those armour systems?

 

[tlanning]

Its not justifiable, the last 8 years of my career we wore what we had almost 24/7. Uncomfortable, sometimes. But, beat the hell out of the alternative. My Purple heart has 2 stars, one of which for sure could have been avoided! Be happy its provided! More than a few of my guys including myself had to buy our own. We got 1 and they do wear out

 

[Eric W. Ford]

As an active duty Soldier for 8 years (and counting). I would say that yes the US Army would send us to war in the current armour system. There was no issue in sending us to Iraq with this system where I have personally seen temperatures in the 150s. The only reason I feel that the US Army would change the armour is for weight considerations. Heat, humidity, cold, rain, sleet, and snow we work in it all whether we are wearing armour or not.

 

[stobes21]

Well of course the body armor can be a major hindrance to the troops. However, the military must balance the interests of keeping the troops mobile, comfortable, and effective with that of protecting them from bullets, shrapnel, etc. Given that we haven't heard about substantial numbers of deaths from heat stroke or guys ditching their armor to be cooler and better able to move I think it's safe to say that most of them have learned to deal with the drawbacks and consider going unarmored to not be worth it. And if they can deal with the heat in the desert in Iraq they should be able to deal with it in the heat of the tropics should they be deployed there.

I think we as a society owe it to the guys and gals serving us to give them the best armor out there. So I hope that the military continues to invest in R&D into thinner, lighter, and better protecting stuff. But barring some huge unforeseen technological advance it will always be a trade off.

 

[82R100]

Given that we haven't heard about substantial numbers of deaths from heat stroke or guys ditching their armor to be cooler and better able to move I think it's safe to say that most of them have learned to deal with the drawbacks and consider going unarmored to not be worth it.

That may be the case, but I'm not sure that it's safe to say. Are the guys wearing the armor through all conditions or are they going without the armor in the most extreme conditions?

- Chris

 

[ScotchDave]

That may be the case, but I'm not sure that it's safe to say. Are the guys wearing the armor through all conditions or are they going without the armor in the most extreme conditions?

- Chris

Also Iraq is not exactly humid, and we all know what difference humidity makes.

 

[Eric W. Ford]

For the conventional Army. We are wearing are armour through all conditions. Only the special operations get the chance to choose to wear armour (from my understanding).

 

[ScotchDave]

For the conventional Army. We are wearing are armour through all conditions. Only the special operations get the chance to choose to wear armour (from my understanding).

Fair enough, I was curious because I know hard it is to exercise in heat and humidity, let alone wearing thirty pounds of armour plating. I just guess you guys are a hell of a lot fitter than I ever was.

 

[tlanning]

Also Iraq is not exactly humid, and we all know what difference humidity makes.

Believe me, "hot" area or not its worn (not 30 pounds) 4-6 at most

 

[citizensoldierny]

Having had some experience with both traditional body armour i.e. kevlar vest worn under clothing, old style flak vest and IBA with SAPI , DAPI, groin , and neck protector I have to say the current IBA is the worst of all for comfort. Wearing an extra -large like I do the vest alone weighs something like 55 pounds with the hard trauma plates in it! Yes you read that correctly. When you throw in the all the plates that go on it gets a good deal heavier and depending on your command they may all be mandatory. Then throw in the standard soldier load 2 liters of water, an 8.5 lb rifle, 5 lb helmet, clothes, 210 rounds of ammo in 7 magazines, first aid kit and what have you and I think I can say without any doubt we have it way worse than civilian vest wearers. As for wearing it loose it was designed to be worn snughly so that your torso takes up some of the weight. All of which explains why I walk around with back problems, like a whole bunch of other Army body wearer victims I mean users

Back to the original question though I have no doubt that this being our current armour system and a good one for saving lives we will use it wherever soldiers are deployed. The Army has a pretty simple solution for heat , and humidity too drink water and drive on. As for the discomfort we have a solution for that too, its called suck it up.

 

[blackfoot]

I forgot about the neck protector. I think that is the part that would get to me the most. I don't like things around my neck.

 

[SRock]

As far as comfort is concerned I agree with others that the current body armor isn't comfortable at all (at least from a temperature/humidity stand point). However, it does what it was intended to do and does it very well. I've seen trauma plates take direct shots from calibers larger than it is guaranteed to stop with great success. I also agree that the DAPS, Groin, Neck and SAPI are all uncomfortable and annoying but again they do what they were intended to do. All in all wearing/carrying around an extra 80lbs sucks but you do get used to it especially when you are wearing it all day everyday on a deployment. If the vest is a proper fit you have a great deal more mobility than one might suspect.