AoM - The Menaissance: The Death of the Metrosexual and the Rise of the Retrosexual
- Thread starter Omnichron
- Start date
Very well said.
Some interesting and thought provoking ideas there.
I have long been in agreement about the "dumb dad" character.
It seemed for a while that no television show in America was without the stupid dad who went week to week being saved alternately by his condescending wife or his kids who were much smarter than he.
Great post. Thanks!
Very interesting presentation, perfectly suited to his time limit. I also agree with triteness the "dumb dad" stereotype. First Tim "the Tool Man" Taylor, then Raymond, then (According to) Jim. Initially, it was humorous; then it became tired. I'm not convinced Mad Men is a blueprint for an enduring trend, as opposed to a curiosity for current TV audiences; let's see where we are in five to ten years. Still and all, I thought this guy made some great points, and, just as important, was a good speaker. Thanks for the link.
While I may not like the portrayal of Dad as poltroon, I can live with it. There's a lot of messages that get beat to death by TV and Hollywood that I disagree with, it's just background noise most of the time.
Being a parent of two boys, however, has opened my eyes to the extent that our current attitude toward males makes life more difficult for those too young to have built up a thick skin.
Being a parent of two boys, however, has opened my eyes to the extent that our current attitude toward males makes life more difficult for those too young to have built up a thick skin.
Very good presentation. Thought provoking, packed with information, and very to the point.
I like the term "Retrosexual." Did you coin it? Whether you did or not, I'm going to make an effort to inject it into conversations over the next few months.
I like the term "Retrosexual." Did you coin it? Whether you did or not, I'm going to make an effort to inject it into conversations over the next few months.
When I was a kid most men were on TV were in the Ward Cleaver mold or a cowboy hero. Times have changed unfortunatly and younger people have a harder and harder time of finding someone to look up to.
I was thinking Omnichron is not Brett McKay, since he was quoting Brett, rather than presenting the words as his own. But maybe he can clarify that for us.
Something about this bothers me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the dumb, rude, slacker image of guys (think: previous Hardee's commercials, Axe, etc) is giving way to a more refined sense of what it means to be a gentleman. I finally have something to back me up when I state my case for why I am how I am.
But I think we're heading in the direction of being pretentious. This can go too far in the other direction, you know. Three words for the "new manliness" in one thread post...that's disconcerting. Not that the OP himself is disconcerting, but that there are that many words devoted to what "it" is. That's not even counting the "Art of Manliness." Really? Does that not sound a bit too "look at me, I'm a neo-male!" to you?
A major part of being a refined gentleman is to understand nuance. I am happy looking at the Axe guys and knowing that I'm different, and that women appreciate that. I do not want to use labels for myself and think of myself as a "retrosexual" or think that I am practicing the "art of manliness." It's way too self-centered. There's a way to be proud of yourself without being a diva.
Take care of yourselves and look good, but don't go advertising to the world that you're so different because you treat women like gentlemen should, mind your appearance, shave with old-school razors, and write with fountain pens. I realize that line looks as though I'm on the outside, castigating all of you. I'm not. I'm one of you. I do all this stuff we talk about here. At work, I'm the natty dresser with an extra wardrobe & pharmacy in his office. But people only know that because they either needed something from it or caught a glimpse. I sure as hell didn't yammer on about being a retrosexual and how I spend thirty minutes shaving every morning with the finest of instruments.
/rant
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the dumb, rude, slacker image of guys (think: previous Hardee's commercials, Axe, etc) is giving way to a more refined sense of what it means to be a gentleman. I finally have something to back me up when I state my case for why I am how I am.
But I think we're heading in the direction of being pretentious. This can go too far in the other direction, you know. Three words for the "new manliness" in one thread post...that's disconcerting. Not that the OP himself is disconcerting, but that there are that many words devoted to what "it" is. That's not even counting the "Art of Manliness." Really? Does that not sound a bit too "look at me, I'm a neo-male!" to you?
A major part of being a refined gentleman is to understand nuance. I am happy looking at the Axe guys and knowing that I'm different, and that women appreciate that. I do not want to use labels for myself and think of myself as a "retrosexual" or think that I am practicing the "art of manliness." It's way too self-centered. There's a way to be proud of yourself without being a diva.
Take care of yourselves and look good, but don't go advertising to the world that you're so different because you treat women like gentlemen should, mind your appearance, shave with old-school razors, and write with fountain pens. I realize that line looks as though I'm on the outside, castigating all of you. I'm not. I'm one of you. I do all this stuff we talk about here. At work, I'm the natty dresser with an extra wardrobe & pharmacy in his office. But people only know that because they either needed something from it or caught a glimpse. I sure as hell didn't yammer on about being a retrosexual and how I spend thirty minutes shaving every morning with the finest of instruments.
/rant
Was he talking about us chaps here?
I understand what you are saying, and pretty much agree.
In defense though, I think he was trying to explain it to outsiders, and to do that he needed terminology.
To those who are living the life of a "gentleman" (for lack of another word) being labeled as a gentleman or a retrosexual is pretty silly. But to someone who does NOT live that way, and is looking in, those words can be useful to explain to THEM what it is we are doing, though there isn't some master plan at play here.
So yes, I see your point completely, but still think there is value in trying to get people to get out of the "stupid" rut that many men have come to find themselves in, in this day and age.
Well-said.
I think that's where nuance comes in. Do we convert by being in-your-face (a relative term, as none of us really match that level of the "macho" types") or understated? Or does it take the former in the beginning, allowing one to move to the latter?
I've been waiting for someone to say that.
I'd cry but, that wouldn't be manly... would it?
Seriously, this is great to hear.
Bring back the man. Start with dominating your BBQ.
I'd cry but, that wouldn't be manly... would it?
Seriously, this is great to hear.
Bring back the man. Start with dominating your BBQ.
I think, in large part, it is a case of osmosis.
We may say or do something that intrigues or interests someone, but after that the desire and potential methods to improve ones lot is absorbed or rejected simply by the example that we present on a regular basis.
I honestly feel that I am a better person for having associated with some of the people on this very Forum.
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B
bluefoxicy
Then you have people like me. I'm a bastard, I just try not to be a total dick.
People try to figure me out with no luck; they need to realize I'm playing the same game, I just try to recognize everyone else as people instead of objects for my personal use.
This has nothing to do with how I dress or what 3 inch piece of metal I use to remove hair from my face today.
Then you have people like me. I'm a bastard, I just try not to be a total dick.
People try to figure me out with no luck; they need to realize I'm playing the same game, I just try to recognize everyone else as people instead of objects for my personal use.
But, because you are a B&B Brother, I don't NEED to figure you out. You will tell me.
A very thoughtful and thought-provoking presentation! Its too bad you only had five minutes. I was particularly interested in your point about the role of the economy in perceptions of manhood. BTW, did you coin the term "retrosexual?"
I've been waiting for someone to say that.
I'd cry but, that wouldn't be manly... would it?
Seriously, this is great to hear.
Bring back the man. Start with dominating your BBQ.
Let's not stop there, though. Knowing how to cook only with the BBQ is reserved for the whole "dumb dad" stereotype.
Anyway, I hope this is a real "Menaissance" and not some kind of passing trend.
Who routinely goes days at a time without showering. I'm beginning to think we may need to do an intervention. Either that, or keep our distance.
Posting this is the same as speaking to the choir. I think many of us on B&B are already outliners and don't need to be labeled or categorized as "retrosexual." We are already gentleman.
The point of AoM should be train and point out to the "Axe" or "Gamer", or whatever someone wants to call the latest generation on real concrete items of being a gentleman. To be honest there are great tips posted on the site and perhaps a good reminder for some of us too.
The point of AoM should be train and point out to the "Axe" or "Gamer", or whatever someone wants to call the latest generation on real concrete items of being a gentleman. To be honest there are great tips posted on the site and perhaps a good reminder for some of us too.
