Would You Try Spear Hunting?

[Phog Allen]

I am posing this question to those who enjoy hunting and the various methods used for pursuit and taking and both small and large game. What I do not want to see is this turn into some pro vs anti hunting debate (debacle?) with accompanying Godwin's Law being the end result. I REALLY WILL NOT debate anyone over the hunting issue itself. It is a legal, sustainable sport. If you do not like it, fine. I respect your decision to not do so. Please respect my decision to LEGALLY participate in the bloodsports and thousands of years of my ancestors heritage of doing so. I do not mind debate over spear vs. whatever other method of taking game you deem appropriate. That is the intent of the thread. To gauge what HUNTERS think or believe about primitive weapons and their use in modern hunting. I will post some links to videos I found on YouTube. One I feel is completely out of line with how I would hunt with a spear. Another is one of my favourite grid iron players, Jared Allen of the Vikings(He was a K.C. Chief but our former manager ran him out of town. Grrrr.). He spears an elk on a private game reserve. Again gents, lets keep on topic. Here we go!

So would you pursue game with a spear? I would with two provisos. First it would have to be legal. Second, I personally would have to train for months before taking a crack at for real. In fact, I would try to set up an instance in which a rancher would either sell or allow me the chance to despatch a head of livestock with the spear. You need to understand how your weapon works in live time. I would probably add a third condition of having a firearm as backup in case of wounding an animal that would crawl off and suffer needlessly. I am aware of only one state that allows public hunting of whitetail deer with a spear. I believe it is Alabama. Most spear hunting revolves around wild boar. My home state of Kansas does not allow pursuit of wild hogs (it is a long and stupid story) so I would have to travel for the chance.

As you will see in the videos there are differing types of spears for hunting. Most hunters are familiar with boar spears. A hefty, double edged affair with a blade length of 9-12 inches and a cross piece or hilt like appendage that runs perpendicular to the blade to keep the game from running up the shaft and goring the hunter. This piece is usually attached to a stout oak or ash shaft of five to six feet in length. I would not care to be on the receiving end of this weapon. I have watched a few videos of wild boar of good size being despatched within seconds of being skewered by these weapons. Fearsome is the description that comes to mind. The second type is a much more sophisticated weapon. What Cold Steel calls a Samburu. This is what Jared uses to take the elk. It has a much smaller, willow leaf shaped point and is easily recognised as a throwing weapon. I suppose you could throw a boar spear but if I am creating animosity with a four hundred pound animal with three inch long, razor sharp tusks I want something in hand to keep him at bay. These creatures are fearsome enough when you face them with a rifle, let alone a weapon with a ten yard effective range for 99% of people who would try it. I would not throw the boar spear.

What do you think the effectiveness would be? Do you think large game could be despatched quickly enough? Do you know of a supplier of spearheads other than Cold Steel? I like Cold Steel products a general rule but would look at other brands. And what about going the atl atl route? There are YouTube videos of these weapons and they are impressive. So give me your thoughts or better yet, experiences.

Regards, Todd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oibNvAbtpc

Sorry chaps. I couldn't find the other video I wanted. It was two guys hunting with dogs. The dogs and one guy had the hog held down and the other guy "hunted" it by walking up and skewering the thing whilst it was being held helpless. Not my thing but I don't jump to too many conclusions. Hogs are dangerous and strong. Getting close to them means you better MAKE sure you are going kill it. They can and will take a big chunk out of you. I have had some close encounters with domestic swine. Let alone feral hogs that have reverted to their wild state. Huge sharp tusks and nasty dispositions.

 

[tg16]

Yes, i'd try it after learning how to use it effectively. I currently hunt with a recurve and enjoy using the primitive weapons.

 

[Confuzius]

Disclaimer: I am not a hunter, nor have I ever hunted. I fully support hunting as long as you plan to eat what you kill.

This is an incredibly cool sounding idea, but I can't help but think that it would take more than a few months of training, this is the type of thing that our ancestors and various tribes around the globe pretty much spend their entire youth and adolescence training for, and it's done in larger groups with more experienced hunters.

You seem to have a grasp on how dangerous this can be, along with the potential need to dispatch a botched kill shot with a firearm. I'd say that the animal's wellbeing is as important as your own you need to respect the beast and make sure it doesn't suffer unnecessarily, I worry this could happen with people unpracticed at "traditional" hunting methods.

Check out this traditional persistence hunt, they use a spear, but at very close range, against a very tired animal. Quite possibly the safest way to spear hunt, assuming you can run behind a gazelle for hours on end...

[youtube]AQ1PnR0IYy8[/youtube]

 

[WastedResources]

I'd do it. I don't think it would be easy though. The challenge would be fun, and I think it would take some teamwork. I've spear hunted for fish, but hunting a larger animal on land would be totally different.

 

[gaseousclay]

I have nothing against hunting so long as it's done in a sustainable way. in fact, I want to try deer hunting and pheasant hunting but my wife is against guns in the house. my fatherh in law is going to keep an eye out for a Winchester shotgun for me and i'll get to keep it at his farm.

as for spear hunting, if it were for survival purposes, yes, i'd try it but there's no way i'm facing some behemoth Bison (or whatever) for recreation. that's what rifles are for

 

[Desdinova]

to improve the experience, do it in a loincloth and barefoot.


Seriously. If one wants to try this as a return to more simple, primitive roots, then why not hunt as an aboriginal would have hundreds or thousands of years ago?

 

[Sullybob]

Interesting thread Todd.

I would try spear hunting for boar. I've even looked at guide services for spear hunting boar. I'm not very interested in trying to chase down a deer and spear it though, truth be told I'm not capable of chasing down a deer and I don't think I could sneak up on a deer.

 

[Dustinl]

Interesting topic. First of all let me say that I am pro-hunting.

Secondly, we hunt for pleasure and not necessity. With that being said, I feel that I owe it to the game I am pursuing to make the kill with as little pain or suffering as possible. Nor would I ever try to kill an elk or moose with a bow and arrow to let it run off and "bleed out". Yes I know that with rifle hunting there is always a chance of wounding an animal but in most cases, a well place rifle bullet is like turning off a light switch on an animal.

So to answer the OP's question, no I would not try it.

Also to the OP, I have read your post thoroughly and understand that you would want a back up firearm to prevent needless suffering. I am not against your desire to spearhunt nor am I saying you are a person of lesser moral values than me, I just could not, nor would want to do it.



DL

 

[Phog Allen]

to improve the experience, do it in a loincloth and barefoot.


Seriously. If one wants to try this as a return to more simple, primitive roots, then why not hunt as an aboriginal would have hundreds or thousands of years ago?

NOT A CHANCE! First of all, the sight of me in a loin cloth would frighten kids and women and I don't want to do that. Second, and this is something I should have mentioned in my first post, I would NEVER, EVER consider close quarters combat with a wild hog without girding my loins and inner thighs with a VERY substantive fabric. Preferably a padded kevlar. People just have no idea how strong and fast hogs are. They sure aren't Babe of movie fame. More than one old dog pack boar hunter has scarred up legs from close encounters with piggly wiggly. No thank you.

Interesting thread Todd.

I would try spear hunting for boar. I've even looked at guide services for spear hunting boar. I'm not very interested in trying to chase down a deer and spear it though, truth be told I'm not capable of chasing down a deer and I don't think I could sneak up on a deer.

This is what intrigues me about spear hunting. There is NO way you or I could ever run down even an old or wounded game animal. Stalking and ambush is the order of the day. I have had doe deer within five feet of my ground stand before and did not know I was there. Their eyesight is not the greatest and their acuity is movement based. Stay still and it is almost scary how close they will get. I almost laughed out loud at how close she got to me and how many times she looked right at me. She moved on and never knew I was there. Had I flinched or crushed a stick or the wind had changed, game over. I am telling you guys who don't hunt, the odds are all on the animals. Their survival instincts are uncanny. They just smell danger in the air. The boar hunting thing brings out the Hemingway in me but then mean old mister reality sets in. Boar are DANGEROUS. When I was younger I grew up with farm kids and I have seen them tossed like little toys by a 150lb. domestic hog. Let alone an enraged 300lb. locomotive with no fat on him and big tusks. Most feral hogs are not that big but their tenacity is legendary. Still, I doubt I could pass up the opportunity to try it. I would have to travel as well. I will post up my home state's ridiculous statue against hog hunting tonight.

Regards, Todd

 

[Duamuteffe]

I've wanted to try a boar spear since I read "The Once and Future King" as a kid. Just something about hunting an animal that requires you have a crosspiece on the spear to keep it from running up the length of the shaft just to take you with it when it goes seems like an interesting way to spend an afternoon. I doubt I'd make a regular habit of it, but I'd like to give it a try once.

 

[Ruck]

I'm a hunter as well. I've seen the Jared Allen video, but something about it bothered me. Similar to some of the reactions I've had to certain episodes of The Best and Worst of Tred Barta (most of all, the wild boar knife hunting episode).

It's funny to say it on a board that's dedicated to doing something the 'old fashioned' way, but I don't see a place for spearing large game in modern hunting. In my eyes there is unnecessary risk to life and limb, especially when there are other "primitive" methods available that can be considered honorable and sporting; there also unnecessary risk of a glancing blow, gut hit, etc. when there are, again, more dependable kill methods that can still be considered traditional, honorable, and sporting.

Now, I temper this by saying 2 years ago I perhaps wouldn't have taken this perspective. I was in a vehicle accident that left me with some permanent damage and lingering issues, which in all honesty makes me think of how life must be post-injury for a game animal that is hit with a non-lethal blow. It may heal from what we as hunters do to it with a hunting tool, but its quality of life and ability to further thrive is affected. I had surgeons and therapists and support from all facets of my life, but an injured game animal only has nature to rely on in healing and continuation of life.

A bow shot within 25 yards is as primitive as I'm willing to go, purely for the fact that if I'm taking the shot, I damn well better kill it. Spearing for sport strikes me as a little more self indulgent than we as stewards and harvesters need to go.

 

[Phog Allen]

Grant I completely understand your point of view. However, if I am reading your post right, you are a bow hunter. Yes? If so, can you relate your experience with its killing ability? I know this will aggravate some bow hunters but I have never been as enthralled with an arrow as some of them are. See, from my perspective a pike or spear with a twelve inch long by two inch wide cutting edge has many times more cutting surface than a four sided broad head. It weighs hundreds of times more and is backed up by leverage from the handle that makes it penetrate much deeper and cut wider than an arrow would if it were proportionately sized. Ie; it hits harder and bigger than an arrow. Arrows have speed. They let you stand off your target which in wild boar's case would keep you from its business end as well. But I don't think an arrow is one bit more effective than a properly placed pike thrust.

Now comes the "yeah but" part. With the pike, you have to get close to your prey. Very close. For those who have never hunted large game or been around livestock, you simply cannot believe their power and speed till you witness it. Not to mention the angry vocalisations they emote when they decide to come for you. It will make the hair on your arms and neck stand up and that is no exaggeration. So yeah, I get it about taking a serious physical risk in spear hunting. It is nothing to go into thinking you are going to pull a Hatari job on the animal and show it who's boss. If you try to manhandle a large boar or even a deer you will get your tail kicked hard. Swine are like fast moving oak stumps. They hit hard, have nasty tusks that are very sharp, and generally a pretty poor disposition toward anything that gets in the way of its food, babies, or escape route. Standing off a full scale charge from one of these beasties is not for the faint of heart I reckon. They can do a lot of damage in a big hurry. Heck, a grown deer can mess you up pretty badly. So yeah, there is most assuredly an adrenalin rush or something associated with spear hunting. Otherwise you'd just grab up granddad's old thutty thutty and shoot the critter dead.

Regards, Todd

 

[professorchaos]

Hell yes I would. But not Cape Buffalo, a la Capstick.

 

[Phog Allen]

Henry! I had forgotten about Capstick and his buffalo spearing. Now that wold take some gumption. I believe it was Ruark who said Cape buff looked at you as if you owed them money.

Regards, Todd

 

[Uncle Erik]

I've been hunting a few times and am not opposed to it. I own several guns, and heartily support the Second Amendment. My one quibble with hunting is that I don't like trophy hunting for the sake of trophy hunting. If you're hunting to feed yourself or others and obey hunting regulations, go ahead.

I would not hunt with a spear. Part of what makes us human is the ability to kill game humanely. We're not limited to fang and claw like other animals. We can choose from a number of highly effective rifles and shotguns that will dispatch an animal quickly and with the least amount of suffering. There's no advantage to using a primitive weapon other than for your personal thrill. If you're going to kill, be quick, clean and efficient. As a human, you owe that to the life you're taking.

I'd make an exception if you're stuck in the woods and have nothing but a spear to survive with.

If you're interested in spears, I'd practice throwing at targets and that sort of thing. But I wouldn't put an animal through that kind of agony unless I had nothing else to survive.

Another take is that a boar is a very dangerous animal. They're smart and they're more than capable of killing a human. You're better off with an appropriate rifle and scope.

 

[Phog Allen]

Hi Erik. I understand and agree with your principles. To a point. I used to get caught up in the "no trophy hunting" thing. Then it became quite clear to me there is no such thing as sustenance hunting anymore. At least not in North America. It is all trophy hunting. There is absolutely no need for hunting to fill a meat requirement. You can buy all you want at the store. Hunting is about pursuit and matching wits with a game animal who is much smarter than I am in his own woods. Of course buying elk or deer meat at the store is not really an option.

Another thing I have given up on is the idea that I can always put a game animal down directly in its tracks with a modern firearm with one shot. It sounds great and once in a while you pull it off. I did so with a small buck a number of years ago. I nailed it at around 60 metres with a 7mm Remington magnum. He never moved an inch. I actually pulled the shot a big high and broke his spine. Almost instant death. The point is, field shooting is never easy and hairy chested tales in hunting magazines about guys dropping elk in their tracks at 500 metres are usually not well tempered with reality. I know many hunters who follow up rifle shot deer every year. They are amazingly resilient. Even to gunfire.

Consider that I have watched a number of hog spearing videos and have seen a number of them laid waste in much less than a minute from massive blood loss. I noticed almost without fail an either/or type scenario. Either a usually smallish hog is brought to bay by a pack of dogs and then pounced on by a team of humans and held whilst a "hunter" comes up from the side and jabs it through the heart/lung region and despatches it or a single hunter (Not counting camera man) stands in a ground blind or behind a large tree and lets a wild hog come by and then nails him. Sometimes the guides just let the hunter wade into the hog while the dogs keep it at bay. From what I have seen the odds are still all on the hog nailing someone. Almost invariably the guys who ambush or just have the dogs along present a much more sporting approach to taking the animal. I saw one of German chap hunting in America. He despatched a very large hog in much less than a minute after jabbing it. That mighty beast was pouring out buckets of blood and still maintained his feet to keep the dogs off till he gave it up. Yet is was not really slower than most rifle shot hogs. I have never taken a wild hog though I have always wanted to. When we lived in California back in the late 70's kids I went to school with had hunted them with their dads and almost all reported having to follow them up. They are just that tough. The point is, they were not dropped in their tracks like a movie. Game animals reactions to gunfire is not absolute. I was hunting with a friend one time and he shot a fist sized hole through a coyote at about 25 metres with a .30-06. That coyote ran fifty yards before giving it up. I couldn't believe it and yet I watched it live. A hunter has to accept that he is not dealing the animal a lethal injection. He is taking his life by force. The animals live with this fear and instinct every day of their lives. I don't think they look at us as any more deadly than a bear, a cougar, a pack of dogs, a mountain lion, or a car bumper. I just don't equate the human emotion to them. I ALWAYS aim to be sporting. I have turned down more shots at game than I care to count. Just because it was not a clear cut case of striking the animal where it needed to be hit. That is the way. I was lucky. I cut my teeth on guns and hunting and my old man would have boxed my ears at any time if he thought I was being careless or unfair to an animal. I can assure you I would never take to the field with ANY weapon unless I knew how to use it, knew its abilities and limitations, and was presented a great attempt to use it. This is the way to maintain the sports.

Regards, Todd

 

[Phog Allen]

Hi chaps. I can't tell you how happy I am that this thread has contained well reasoned and thoughtful replies. I was somewhat apprehensive at posting it because I fully expected an ear beating about savagery, etc. Most hunters know that any weapon inflicts some pain and eventually death to a game animal. We owe it to the critters, the sport, and to ourselves to do correctly. Thank you and keep the posts coming. I would really love to hear from someone who has done this.

Regards, Todd

 

[catfish308]

I would try this if I had the chance. I'm a bow hunter and love the feeling of being close. I saw a video of a guy shooting a mountain goat at 700+ yards. While this is hunting and I know it's hard to get close to a mountain goat, it just doesn't seem right to me. I think spear hunting would be a great challenge.

However, we do owe the animal a quick death. It would be important to practice and know what you will be facing when the time comes. If I felt I couldn't make a great hit, I wouldn't try. No matter how long it took to get close.

 

[BCatl]

Yes, the hunter owes the animal a quick death.... but I would not make the assumption that the animal will always be the one that ends up dead.

When you get up close and personal, the animal is in the fight.

"Yes, but I have my snubnose .44.. " RIGHT lol.

Get a little spear and go after rabbits. It takes a good eye and a steady hand to do that.

 

[WastedResources]

Hi Erik. I understand and agree with your principles. To a point. I used to get caught up in the "no trophy hunting" thing. Then it became quite clear to me there is no such thing as sustenance hunting anymore. At least not in North America. It is all trophy hunting. There is absolutely no need for hunting to fill a meat requirement. You can buy all you want at the store. Hunting is about pursuit and matching wits with a game animal who is much smarter than I am in his own woods. Of course buying elk or deer meat at the store is not really an option.

We eat what we kill where I come from. We hunt for the bonding experience with our friends and family. We hunt for the meat. The game we kill cannot be purchased at the grocery store. We will occasionally keep a perfect specimen for trophy mounting, but it's pretty rare. I personally have never kept a trophy other than photographs.

That said, I don't have a problem with trophy hunting as long as it is regulated. The department of game and fish uses hunting as a population control method for some species. You might be surprised to know that there is a large giant pig population on the rise in the United States, and they are on the list of 100 most invasive species. You will see much more boar hunting in the next decade. Unlike deer, these hogs are not afraid of people. This hunting will be different, exciting, and challenging in other ways.