Time to upgrade my lower grit stones

[Rustynail]

I think I'm OK as far as finishing goes for now anyways. I have an 8k shapton pro, an ILR, and a black ark from the SS. However all of my other stones from 1k on up are complete Amazon cheap crap. I am able to get good result with my progression but I feel like I have to spend waaay too much time on the 8K SP to make up for the crappy stones up to that point as I believe they are excessively chipped (edit: I meant to say causes excessive chipping of the blade). I'm done buying junk but I do want to be frugile too if possible. I've not heard great things about King, not sure about norton synths, never had one. What would be a good progression below 8k that would compliment the decent stones I already have? Jon

 

[Joshua223]

I have (had?) a broken King 1K/6K I bought cheap and while it did the job, it seemed to need lapping more often and it was on the smaller side. My Norton set does the job, but I can't compare it to any other comparable waterstones like Shapton or Naniwa. The Norton 1K doesn't seem like it cuts really fast, but again I can't say for sure since I haven't used the other brands.
It stinks sinking money into stuff like hones if you aren't a true honing nut. Still, I would recommend investing more in stones you will be happy with instead of buying something you will likely end up wanting to replace. Sometimes you can find lightly used ones at a good price.

 

[Steve56]

If you like your 8k Pro, why not a 2k/5k Shapton Pro? That’s what I used for a long time, and still do sometimes. The Shapton Glass are very fast, so you can use finer grits than with other stones. 2k/4k would take you to your 8k Pro easily.

 

[Rustynail]

I have (had?) a broken King 1K/6K I bought cheap and while it did the job, it seemed to need lapping more often and it was on the smaller side. My Norton set does the job, but I can't compare it to any other comparable waterstones like Shapton or Naniwa. The Norton 1K doesn't seem like it cuts really fast, but again I can't say for sure since I haven't used the other brands.
It stinks sinking money into stuff like hones if you aren't a true honing nut. Still, I would recommend investing more in stones you will be happy with instead of buying something you will likely end up wanting to replace. Sometimes you can find lightly used ones at a good price.

ya I guess that's where I'm at, replacing stones I don't like

 

[Rustynail]

If you like your 8k Pro, why not a 2k/5k Shapton Pro? That’s what I used for a long time, and still do sometimes. The Shapton Glass are very fast, so you can use finer grits than with other stones. 2k/4k would take you to your 8k Pro easily.

Well that does seem to be the logical course of action. I guess I was hoping for a cheaper alternative that works well. Those shaptons aren't cheap..

 

[mr_houston]

I went with a Naniwa Traditional Stone 1000. It's a good stone that costs about $30.

I can't compare it to others -- its the only one I've ever owned.

 

[Rustynail]

What about one BBW or a coticule instead of a 2k/5k shapton progression?

 

[Steve56]

You can save a bit by buying the Kuromaku. They’re the same stone, non-US product.

 

[Rustynail]

I think I like that idea about the naniwa 1k!

 

[Rustynail]

You can save a bit by buying the Kuromaku. They’re the same stone, non-US product.

Thx I was not aware of that

 

[buca3152]

Low grit stones do 90% of the work. Plus they're great for your knives also. Nani pro 1k is what I would do. I have it (chosera)and would definitely buy it again if I needed to. I've used the king, norton, shapton, DMT 1200 and naniwa traditional for comparison.

 

[Proinsias]

I upgraded from a King 1K/6K to Shapton Pro 1.5K/5K a few years ago and have been very happy.

 

[Jayber Crow]

I'll second the Shapton 1.5k and 5k.
Instead of a Belgian combo a Soft Ark one side dressed the other left as is would be a possible precursor to your finishers.

 

[Rustynail]

I appreciate all the input.

 

[Biglo13]

I am in same process of up grading lower progressions. I used set of Naniwa ss are now in bound

 

[Namkcakram]

Had many stones and completely worn a few out including DMTs.

I like the friable Imanishi manufactured stones, and two winners are the Bester 1200 and Suehiro “Rika” 5k both pretty cheap. Big downside for some people is that they need to soak, but I hone enough to perma-soak them and not be inconvenienced.

That said if you’re getting best results off your Ark finishing stone, you need to get yourself a vintage Washita and do all but ROUGH bevel sets on the Washita-> finisher Ark progression. Your face will thank you later.

 

[Rustynail]

I am in same process of up grading lower progressions. I used set of Naniwa ss are now in bound

Nice!

Had many stones and completely worn a few out including DMTs.

I like the friable Imanishi manufactured stones, and two winners are the Bester 1200 and Suehiro “Rika” 5k both pretty cheap. Big downside for some people is that they need to soak, but I hone enough to perma-soak them and not be inconvenienced.

That said if you’re getting best results off your Ark finishing stone, you need to get yourself a vintage Washita and do all but ROUGH bevel sets on the Washita-> finisher Ark progression. Your face will thank you later.

This suggestion is appealing I think I will research washitas further. Where would going from a washita to black ark leave my shapton pro 8k?

 

[Biglo13]

I have a vintage washita. I love and need to speed more time with it, some times it’s fast some times it slow. it’s a INTERESTING and confusing stone.... Don’t think of them in grit but in ranges...... coarse middle finish..... even then the categories cross over..... my Norton #1 washita vintage is an amazing tool...... but if you want spoon feed progression 1 k, 3k 5k, 8k, finisher stones. Then arks may not be the stones for you. If I had to put. A number on washita, I would guess 3-8k+.....confusion..... much has to do on how you finish your stone. And how “loaded” it is. But it takes a decent amount of learning to see this stone’s value. On my stone I lapp one side a bit coarser ( 3-5kish) Then other side ( 8-10 k Ish). This is not necessary but it is how I wrap my head around it. I also start with more pressure the let off as I advance, i Also dilute slurry which comes naturally as surface lube thins naturally. I understand people use washita as a one stone wonder from coarse to finishing... especially on tools. The stone also respond to pressure well, faster coarser with pressure, Slower finer with less. I’m no a metallurgy expert but I also notice certain steels love it, other don’t. I half joke with a friend of mine saying. “ you just have to believe harder and the stone will provide desired grit range”.

But to answer your question, If you want to continue using Shapton. As 8K, Setup and use the washita a 3-5k. Test your process with feel, and visual/ loupe / microscope input.

 

[Namkcakram]

As aluded to above what a Washita is depends on the Washita, your technique, and the razor or tool being honed.

In your mind put the question of if you want a Washita in in the perspective of the time period when these razors were made and sold commonly. The different natural sharpening media weren’t so readily available anywhere on the globe, so as a rule each region developed its own steel processing preferences based on how they sharpened and what stones and iron ores were available. Arkansas stones as a general rule will work best with what was forged or manufactured someplace that used novaculite or slate to hone. This covers the USA(duh), England, and you can stretch it to most German razors. You CAN hone any razor I’ve encountered on Arkansas stones, but razors that are fine grained high purity steel and tempered on the softer side will go the best with a full Arkansas progression. If you venture too far outside that range to Sweden or Japan... you might be sweating all day to remove a tiny chip because they tempered harder (and had access to Coticules or JNATs, which can cut hard steels quicker).

Now what’s a Shapton 8k good for once you have a Washita? We’re sort of jumping the gun here and assuming you’ll like a Washita more, which you may not... Even if the Washita is “better” for most razors, you’ll still find some that seem resistant to Arkansas stones and the Shapton will hone those no problem. You really can’t compare a high pressure baked brick of pristine ~2mu cutting particles against a Washita, both will shine in certain conditions and I’d bet you’ll find uses for each even if they don’t fall cleanly into a progression together.

Each Washita is a bit different, but the thing they all share is the wide range they can cover with varied pressure as described above. I’ve got a softer/coarser one, a harder/finer one, and a surgical black that go perfectly together to cover anything I’d need on softer steels.


The big thing is if you’re using an ark finisher, you can play around and realize that you can JUST tell a difference in your edge depending on what stone was used as a pre-finisher. In this context my two favorite edges are Coti->surgical black and Washita->Washita->surgical black. The edges off the full ark progression are absurdly keen, yet you just will not cut yourself unless you’re asking for it.

 

[Rustynail]

Very very insightful guys, thank you!