Recommendations to pair with King 1k Deluxe

[MikeAllen]

This is my first experience with straight razors, and honing.

Recently i purchased a King 1k Deluxe. and a cheap gold dollar 1996 to practice on.

I heard this was a decent inexpensive stone to practice on. I figured I could learn to set bevels on it.

Researching and watching videos I’m very confused what stones to pair with it.

I’m leaning Atoma 400 diamond plate vs wet dry sandpaper and tile. Sandpaper is the least expensive option but I’ve seen videos of guys evening out the spine with diamond plate and thought that might be handy, and over time sandpaper cost would add up + plus mess.

Ive looked at multiple options I could come up with for a beginner set.

First let me preface my goal is to be setup with stones I can learn on, are enjoyable to use, and product an acceptable edge.

Here are various cart configurations I have had.

#1 6k king deluxe as intermediate, and then an 8k stone (Naniwa Fuji 8k, or Shapton Pro 8k)

The grits are confusing I’m not certain if 1k to 6k is a proper progression. I’ve seen a video from MikeBaker on YouTube which was positive. Im also understanding the 8k would be next progression, but when budget permits I would likely even need a finer stone after that.

#2 Norton 4K 8k

There is a lot of information. Some love it and some hate it. Some claim it’s the best stone to learn on. Still I keep reading the grit ratings are off and it is more like a 3k 6k setup.

Also I’m not overly in love with the idea of a combination stone.

I’m not knocking it but just hesitant as it’s still a fairly expensive stone @ $100

#3 Shapton Pro 5k and Shapton Pro 8k

I’ve looked at this option because it’s less a jump in grit from 1k King Deluxe, and only about $25 more on Amazon.

#4 don’t buy anything just learn to set bevel on King 1k

Any advice as to what I should pair with this King 1k deluxe would be greatly appreciated.

I was also planning on getting a paddle strop and paste with the purchase as alot of people recommended it, and I don’t want to gum up the fabric on my existing strop.

 

[JPO]

Coticule
Alternatively; Naniwa Fuji 8k and Hayabusa 4k, followed by either a coticule or a simple slate (Black Shadow maybe)

 

[Christian1212]

I like the shapton or naniwa water stones. If you are going to be in the hobby for the long run I would get shapton 4 or 5k, and 8k. Great stones that take a lot of guesswork out. Can decide on what finishing rabbit hole to jump down later as well.

Also get a diamond plate. Perfect for water stones and the time it will save over tile and sandpaper will easily be worth it.

 

[lightfoot]

Based on your list I’m leaning towards option #3.

 

[Gamma]

If you are going to use a diamond plate to fix razor spines, a DMT plate would be easier to work with than the Atoma.

As for the rest of the quandary - there are a zillion posts about 'what stones to buy'.
Opinions are plentiful. The search engine here can guide you to numerous conversations about all the stones you are wondering about.

Objectively, the King 1k is soft and difficult to keep flat. If you want a good bevel you will need to learn how to manage that stone's liabilities. A good diamond plate can help there. Using w/d to flatten stones or whatever requires a flat surtace under it. Most tiles are not flat enough for me - a granite surface plate will work though.

It's not color by numbers, one brand's 1k is not the same as everyone else's. The Norton 8k is more like a Naniwa 5k.
So what you want is a stone that won't be stressed cleaning up the King's striations. The King 1k is not nearly the same as a Chosera 1k.

Note - long term value is more important than what might seem like short term savings.

If someone gave me a 1k King to set a bevel on, I'd probably follow it with a 2k Shapton Pro or 2k Shapton Glass Stone.
I have both of those stones here. But if I had to buy a new stone to follow the King, I might buy either of those two, or a Chosera/Pro 3k. Reason being that I want a stone that is hard, wears well, and not so far down the refinement line.
Any number of options can work though. But having had the King 1k twice, and ton of other stones including what was listed in the OP, those would be my choices. Sure, the Shapton Pro 5k can fill in there but it will be easier to handle the clean up with a coarser option. The Chosera 3k would be the compromise stone, finer than the 2k options, coarser than the 5k SP.

 

[Empire straights]

Im with @JPO on the coticule, but I'm a bit biased. To me they are the Swiss army knife of razor honing. I can do everything from chip removal to finish on a coticule on razors and knives. I don't like to use them for badly rolled edges though because the can gouge the stone if it's a softer one.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Any of the stones you mentioned will work.

The King 1k is a good stone and will work just fine. It does need to be lapped and a $30 diamond plate will do that easier than 220 sandpaper. You will not be shaving off the 1k or any 1k, so which one you use does not matter. The 1k is a grinder.

The trick is to get to an 8k edge, the edge does not get straight enough to shave comfortable until about 8k.

A 4-6k between the 1-8k would make learning to hone easier. Either the King 6k or the Norton would work. The Norton 4/8 is also a good stone and thousands of guys have learned on that stone. It will produce a good shaving edge and a stellar edge with paste.

Yes, some grits are a bit different but not enough to make a difference, a handful of laps more or less.

I once bought a boxed pair of Antique Pinder Sheffield razors from an old guy who said he set the bevel on a Harbor Freight Diamond plate, polished the bevel and edge on a barber hone and finished the edge on Chrome Oxide pasted old leather belt. They shaved keen and smooth.

It’s not the stones…

The problem is the Gold Dollar. Those razors are notorious for needing repair prior to being honed and can cause a lot of grief to a new honer.

 

[marv]

If I were you, I would buy the Naniwa SS 3/8k. A cheap alternative is Zwilling 3/8k. The manufacturer of Zwilling is Naniwa. You can get Norton 4/8k, but Naniwa 8K gives you a smoother, sharper edge. Naniwa is a good option if you are not going to buy an final finishing stone. If the sharpness is not enough for you, chromoxide will help you.

 

[natto]

This is my first experience with straight razors, and honing.

Recently i purchased a King 1k Deluxe. and a cheap gold dollar 1996 to practice on.

I heard this was a decent inexpensive stone to practice on. I figured I could learn to set bevels on it.

Let me suggest to learn sharpening step by step.

step one
Lap your stone flat and keep it flat. Chamfer the edges and keep them chaferred. When that is done proceed to

step two
Look up sharpening strokes, how to hold the razor and such. I am a little heavy handed like many beginners. This part can be troublesome.

step three
Check your Razor. You need stone contact on both bevels without pressure, from heel to toe. Paint the spine and edge with coloured marker. Let it dry. Few light strokes will show the contact area. Take some pictures and proceed to


step four
Post the pictures in a sharpening thread. From there we can see.


We beginners all do the same errors. You can read it up in the old threads. I learned from there. I haven't got a full shave from my former new razor, but my english may have become a little better


btw sharpening is a skill that can be learned. You only need some reliable tools, nothing fancy until you mastered the basics.

 

[Legion]

FWIW, I started with a King 800 (Pretty similar to the 1k), a Norton 4/8k (which was the fashion at the time), and a PHIG (which I was able to buy locally).

And it got the job done while I was learning, and for a while after. Then I spent thousands on natural stones, and it has been an interesting journey, but that first three stone setup got the job done.


Knowing what I know now I could say get esoteric XYZ stone, from some random corner of the world, but that will be expensive and hard to find. With a king 1k, a Norton 4/8, and the finishing stone of your choice, you will learn the ropes. That is the main objective for now.

 

[MikeAllen]

I want to thank everyone for responding. I just signed up for this forum yesterday, and the feedback has been great; especially before spending any money.

A few thought based on your feedback:

Based on recommendations I will be grabbing DMT plate and some Paste for stropping.

Right now I think I have new options to consider

- Option #1 I get the Chosera 3k or Shapton Pro 5k and Naniwa Fuji 8k which will set me back roughly $120 to $140

- Option #2 I get the Norton 4k/8k for $100.

I haven’t looked at finishing stones with either of these options

Dark horse option: I get the 8x2” Coticule for $160 off of Amazon plus a slurry stone. I love the idea of a natural stone. I probably intend to go that someday, just wonder if it not best option to learn on? With smaller stone etc.

Questions would be if slurry stone is redundant with DMT

I also appreciate the list of instructions and milestones for learning provided. Thanks to everyone again

 

[Gamma]

If someone gave me a Norton 4k/8k I'd give it back. The N8k is more like a 5k and the 4k is miserably grainy and slow. While it can function as a hone it is easily eclipsed by other options.

Natural stones are great. I learned on synths and a Coticule side-by-side. One isn't better than the other in an absolute sense though. Some guys learn better on synths because they are more predictable. Coticules have individual personalities that are more difficult for some to decipher. Sometimes, getting a max finished edge out of one can be pretty challenging. Depends on the stone in question, it's capabilities, and the users ability to adapt to them.

In the beginning I used synths for ground work and a Coti to finish. Then I learned how to do the early stages of honing on a Coti. I am mostly inclined to use synths for the bevel set and next stage, and pick up with a Coti down the line.

Fuji 8k is a good stone but I didn't like the plasticky feel.
The Shapton Pro 8k is fine for me there. I use that 8k most of the time.

Shapton Pro 5k is a good stone, Chosera 3k is also a good stone.
Either will set up an edge for any good 8k.

The Chosera/Pro stones have had issues with cracking, so that is something to know.
And the Super Stones have had issues warping. I don't think I've read any reports of a Fuji 8k warping but the sister stone, the 4k Falcon has had some issues. The Naniwa Snow White is my preferred 8k but several people report issues with it crazing and cracking too. Mine has been fine but it's something to know about.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The goal in successful learning to hone is to minimize as many variables as possible.

Learn on synthetics. (Minimize variables). My 1k King and Norton 4/8k is exactly like yours.

Learn to recognize a fully set bevel, FULLY SET. The visual test is the simplest, most conclusive, it is pass or fail. No Variables.

Once the bevel is fully set, remove ALL the bevel setting stria with the following transition stone, where you transition from grinding to polishing.

Polish to 8k without mucking up the edge.

Coticules are the most difficult natural stone to learn on, intentionally inserting, way too many variables…Your coticule may not be a finisher.

Option 1 or 2 will work just fine, which bevel setters and mid grit stones do not matter, if you fully set the bevel and remove each stria in the progression.

If you finish on paste, Chrome Oxide is 20-30k, so which 8k you use also does not matter, that much. Once you can consistently get a comfortable 8k, pasted shaving edge, then look at finishers. But if you cannot make an 8k edge, a high dollar finisher is useless.

Get some decent magnification, a $15 Carson 60/100x Micro Brite is a good investment. Google (My Second Try at Honing) make your bevels look like his. He honed an eBay beater, it was the second razor he had honed.

From this

To this…

 

[MikeAllen]

Well I think I’ve made a decision H Brad thanks for suggestion on scope. I currently have a 10x loop but looks like this is much more detailed.

@Gamma thanks to you, and everyone else

I think I’m going to go with the Naniwa Falcon 4K and Fuji 8k.

I can get both stones for same price as Norton 4K 8k. It seem I need to save as much as I can for a Coticule

 

[JPO]

Well I think I’ve made a decision H Brad thanks for suggestion on scope. I currently have a 10x loop but looks like this is much more detailed.

@Gamma thanks to you, and everyone else

I think I’m going to go with the Naniwa Falcon 4K and Fuji 8k.

I can get both stones for same price as Norton 4K 8k. It seem I need to save as much as I can for a Coticule

I am sure you will be happy with those.
If you at some point want to get a coticule, I would not just buy s random stone from a knife store.
They are quite diverse, and there really isn't any grading system.
Reach out to some of the coticule enthusiasts here for advice. Or get one from Ardennes, and specify what you plan to use it for. Their select grade plus is good, but expensive. So, there is probably one you can get from one of the stone collectors here, or in the "wild" that is just as good.

 

[Wid]

I am sure you will be happy with those.
If you at some point want to get a coticule, I would not just buy s random stone from a knife store.
They are quite diverse, and there really isn't any grading system.
Reach out to some of the coticule enthusiasts here for advice. Or get one from Ardennes, and specify what you plan to use it for. Their select grade plus is good, but expensive. So, there is probably one you can get from one of the stone collectors here, or in the "wild" that is just as good.

To bad he’s not ready for a coticule now, a couple very nice ones for sale in the BST forum.

 

[Empire straights]

I am sure you will be happy with those.
If you at some point want to get a coticule, I would not just buy s random stone from a knife store.
They are quite diverse, and there really isn't any grading system.
Reach out to some of the coticule enthusiasts here for advice. Or get one from Ardennes, and specify what you plan to use it for. Their select grade plus is good, but expensive. So, there is probably one you can get from one of the stone collectors here, or in the "wild" that is just as good.

I agree it's better to get one that's been used by the seller so you can get an accurate description of that particular stone.

 

[Alum of Potash]

For me, a logical next step after a King 1k would be to use a King/Ice Bear 6k. A DMT coarse/fine combo would be good too for lapping the stones on the coarse side and for dealing with chips on the fine side.

What to use after the 6k, if that is going to be the end of the honing progression? Many years back, in starting out, I had good luck in going from a 1k/6k Suehiro combo to a suede paddle strop lined with Thiers-Issard alox/diamond paste. That might be a cheap and effective way to get you to a shaving edge.

 

[Legion]

Worth mentioning, if you want to dip your toe into the world of natural stones without spending a fortune, there are plenty of slates available that will finish an edge well, and they are pretty foolproof to use compared to a lot of coticules.

 

[Empire straights]

Worth mentioning, if you want to dip your toe into the world of natural stones without spending a fortune, there are plenty of slates available that will finish an edge well, and they are pretty foolproof to use compared to a lot of coticules.

Also very true. I'm not overly impressed with slates because they don't remove steel quickly but I've found a few that will hog it off like a coticule will. A good coticule/bbw combo is hard to beat and I don't think they're that hard to use. No pressure, that's it. That's where everyone(myself included) screws it up initially. Garnets cut steel with ease. More slurry=more cutting power, less slurry=less cutting power, no need to change pressure. Run it through a progression with no pressure and finish on lather just barely skating on it and you've got a pretty damn fool proof stone. People recommend thuringians because of was of use but I'd say vintage coticule and finish on a fine Tam if it's not fine enough an edge. I could do it with a small quality old coticule+slurry stone and a Tam for just about any blade I could imagine sharpening.