Scotch start

[The Knize]

Tasted neither of those, but one intriguing blend from that stable is Jim Beam Black, which tastes really sleazy. It's the whisky equivalent of Ms Aquilera's wrestling video and gets you utterly blasted and wanting to own a pickup truck (which is quite an uncommon desire in Glasgow) and start referencing Stazi bars in Berlin. Really nice in a really nasty way or vice versa- It should be called Jim Beam's "Iggy".

I think yours might be the coolest post I have ever read, but I am not sure because I am not sure I understand most of it.

<Ms Aquilera's wrestling video>

You mean "Ms. Aguilera's," right?, as in Christina. Great reference.

Stazi is a reference to the former East German secret police, and I guess I do not get the whole Stazi bar thing, except I know that some have opened in Berlin, where they issue you an identity card and act all psuedo itimidating. And "Iggy" is a reference to "Iggy Pop"? Another great reference, if I understand the drift.

Part of what is cool about your post, is that Jim Beam Black is suppoed to me one of the higher end Jim Beams, and thus all sophisticated compared to regular JB while label. That is, closer to the world-wide reputation of Scotch that its less sophisticated relatives in the JB line. JB would go nuts reading this. It was not what JB was after!

I was in Glasgow not so long ago. Very hip town club-wise it seemed like. Great music. You mean American country has not caught on there as a hip/ironic "stance"?!

 

[verminisjk]

i'm lost

 

[TimmyBoston]

What about JW Gold and Blue? Did someone taste it?

Gold is good but IMO too much money for a starter Scotch and Blue is also good but ridiculously overpriced.

 

[The Knize]

Gold is good but IMO too much money for a starter Scotch and Blue is also good but ridiculously overpriced.

<Gold is good but IMO too much money for a starter Scotch>

Are you saying that it not a starter Scotch or that it works as a starter Scotch except that it is too expensive? I do not understand where JW is trying to do with JW gold. I think, at least where I am, Montgomery County, MD, the green was more expensive when it first came out and closer to what the gold costs these days, which I would say on sale is around say $55. Now it seems like the green is noticeably cheaper.

And the gold is supposed to be 18 old, compared to the green 15 yo, which itself is amazingly old. And JW's ad copy talks about JW gold being creamy and seems to talk about mixing it and doing things like putting it in the freezer. And it is not a pure malt. It has grain whisky in it, along with malts. I am not saying it is bad. I am saying the creaminess, is atypical of Scotch and if you are just getting started with Scotch.

 

[Darjeeling Express]

Post modernist thread. I so enjoyed cstrother's posts (as I sip Castlecraver's Manhattan), illuminating, mind expanding, and the tone, so gracious, so humble, so sweet. Hat's off. I've tried a few of these single malts, the Caol Ila is a gentle caress and a perfect entry to high end scotch. For me the the Lagavulin is the gold standard, (I have not tried all that many!), very smokey/peaty, but smooth and just delicious. Thank you to all of the contributors on this thread. I'm a bit new to this forum. Thanks for having me. Darjeeling.

 

[The Knize]

Post modernist thread. I so enjoyed cstrother's posts (as I sip Castlecraver's Manhattan), illuminating, mind expanding, and the tone, so gracious, so humble, so sweet. Hat's off. I've tried a few of these single malts, the Caol Ila is a gentle caress and a perfect entry to high end scotch. For me the the Lagavulin is the gold standard, (I have not tried all that many!), very smokey/peaty, but smooth and just delicious. Thank you to all of the contributors on this thread. I'm a bit new to this forum. Thanks for having me. Darjeeling.

Geez, Darjeeling, for once(!), I am at a loss for words. So poetically crafted a message, yourself. I am touched and beyond flattered! But you should not encourage me, or I will ramble on and on, and one thing I know for sure is that my palate is not as good as some, and I really do not get to drink all that much Scotch all that often to be able to speak with too much authority. But as you indicate lots of contributors on this thread, and other Scotch and spirits and alcoholic beverage related threads, are just wonderful and have a wonderful amount of knowledge they so willingly share. Collectively, I think the information presented on these fora is excellent in every respect. I suppose "we also serve, who sit and drink"!

I was going to write in last night, when I had a tasting glass and bottle of Glenlivet 12, Glenlivet 18, Coal Ila 12, Cragganmore 12, JW Black, and JW Green in front of me. But who would have guessed, I fell asleep before I got around to it. Isn't the Caol Ila nice though? The guy writing the JW Green review I posted a link to, seemed to question whether Caol Ila was in the same league as Talisker and Craggenmore, but I am not sure why. I find it quite lovely. It is not the powerhouse that Islays tend to be, like your Lagavulin, and truth be told, I would not consider it quite the marvel that Lagavulin is, but I do not think it has to be, to be top notch Scotch. (I also own what is left a small bottle of some special bottling of by someone of some 1989 Caol Ila. I bought it a long time ago. It did not spend more than 12 years the barrel or anything, which is supposedly all that matters. But it impressed me when I bought it and it impresses me now as really nice, nuanced whisky!)

<For me the the Lagavulin is the gold standard, . . . very smokey/peaty, but smooth and just delicious.>

I do not think there are many Scotch fans that would disagree with you or give you anything but big props for your analysis, and frankly for your enjoyment of it. Tastes, of course, vary. And I do not think that anyone is saying one has to really like Lagavulin to have as refined an appreciation of Scotch as anyone else. But, I personally think that the fact that you can actually enjoy Lagavulin speaks well of your palate. Scotches like Lagavulin and Laphroig (sp?) are full on, absolutely uncompromising masterpieces, but that full on and uncompromising part can make them difficult to approach. I sure as heck did not like them when I was first drinking Scotch. I am not sure that on some levels they do not "scare" me now!

By the way, based on my little solo tasting last night, each of the above was pretty good. The Glenlivet 12 seemed rather light in that company. The Caol Ila seemed delightful and "showed" better than I expected. The Cragganmore seems solid. More malt than anything interesting in the nose, however. The JW Black is good, even in the company of those single malts. The JW Green noticeably a bit better, more complex than the Black. I may be taking back some of my criticism of it when I say that I was liking it better than the Cragganmore last night. More going on in the nose and on the tongue than the Cragganmore. I hate to say it, because I would love for the less expensive bottles to be the best, but the Glenlivet 18 was clearly the star of that flight. It had it all. Intensity, nose, flavor, smoothness, compexity. It does not have all of the different things going on that a Lagavulin does such as iodine and sea-type tastes, which is not mark against it. It is a Speyside, not an Islay. It is not supposed to.

See! You encourage me too much! Enjoy. Scotch is a wonderful, and really unique in many ways, beverage.

 

[scottish steve]

I think yours might be the coolest post I have ever read, but I am not sure because I am not sure I understand most of it.

<Ms Aquilera's wrestling video>

You mean "Ms. Aguilera's," right?, as in Christina. Great reference.

Stazi is a reference to the former East German secret police, and I guess I do not get the whole Stazi bar thing, except I know that some have opened in Berlin, where they issue you an identity card and act all psuedo itimidating. And "Iggy" is a reference to "Iggy Pop"? Another great reference, if I understand the drift.

Part of what is cool about your post, is that Jim Beam Black is suppoed to me one of the higher end Jim Beams, and thus all sophisticated compared to regular JB while label. That is, closer to the world-wide reputation of Scotch that its less sophisticated relatives in the JB line. JB would go nuts reading this. It was not what JB was after!

I was in Glasgow not so long ago. Very hip town club-wise it seemed like. Great music. You mean American country has not caught on there as a hip/ironic "stance"?!

Hey, a feather in my cap! Yes on Ms Aguilera and Iggy and my mate's been to Berlin a couple of times and says its so sophisticated and bohemian its unreal; He was in some bars where you'd get preppy uptight socialites next to 50 year old gay men in full bondage-gear and sexy women in bikinis, all just having a laugh with very little ego. Anything goes and no-one is shocked or uptight. I think there are a couple of types of Stazi bars and one type is not touristy, but edgy. Didn't know JB Black was meant to be high end. Oops!

As to Glasgow, there are some decent places to go. If you're back soon, I'd recommend Roasted Bubbly Jock's or The Buttery for good Scottish food, Ichiban and Kukuryo for Asian and The Lismor Pub for over a hundred whiskies....I live within a 5 min walk of it. For later, The Arches is good and Delmonica's then The Polo Club if you want to meet those of an "alternative" lifestyle.

 

[masonjarjar]

um.. definately NOT Lauder's!! (bad move on my part, goes to show you that when buying cheap, go for quality over quantity!!)

Ginger Ale kind of makes it drinkable!

 

[Darjeeling Express]

I had a tasting glass and bottle of Glenlivet 12, Glenlivet 18, Coal Ila 12, Cragganmore 12, JW Black, and JW Green in front of me.

.... Each of the above was pretty good. The Glenlivet 12 seemed rather light in that company. The Caol Ila seemed delightful and "showed" better than I expected. The Cragganmore seems solid. More malt than anything interesting in the nose, however. The JW Black is good, even in the company of those single malts. The JW Green noticeably a bit better, more complex than the Black. I may be taking back some of my criticism of it when I say that I was liking it better than the Cragganmore last night. More going on in the nose and on the tongue than the Cragganmore. I hate to say it, because I would love for the less expensive bottles to be the best, but the Glenlivet 18 was clearly the star of that flight. It had it all. Intensity, nose, flavor, smoothness, compexity. It does not have all of the different things going on that a Lagavulin does such as iodine and sea-type tastes, which is not mark against it. It is a Speyside, not an Islay. It is not supposed to.

See! You encourage me too much! Enjoy. Scotch is a wonderful, and really unique in many ways, beverage.

CS - You've done it again. Each note, hit just right. The Glenlivet 18 sounds amazing.

 

[The Knize]

Hey, a feather in my cap! Yes on Ms Aguilera and Iggy and my mate's been to Berlin a couple of times and says its so sophisticated and bohemian its unreal; He was in some bars where you'd get preppy uptight socialites next to 50 year old gay men in full bondage-gear and sexy women in bikinis, all just having a laugh with very little ego. Anything goes and no-one is shocked or uptight. I think there are a couple of types of Stazi bars and one type is not touristy, but edgy. Didn't know JB Black was meant to be high end. Oops!

As to Glasgow, there are some decent places to go. If you're back soon, I'd recommend Roasted Bubbly Jock's or The Buttery for good Scottish food, Ichiban and Kukuryo for Asian and The Lismor Pub for over a hundred whiskies....I live within a 5 min walk of it. For later, The Arches is good and Delmonica's then The Polo Club if you want to meet those of an "alternative" lifestyle.

Glasgow was great. We were there with my son's football team, staying at Glasgow University. Stunning football pitches. My son is entering college in the fall, so I think that kind of family trip is in the past, although I wish it weren't. We spent time in Cottier's (unless there is some other church converted to a bar) and wandered around Ashton Lane quite a bit in the evenings. We probably coudl have used a local guide. I remember The Ubiquitous Chip. I did not eat there, but did drink there. The folks that ate there were impressed. What is its rep these days? Cottier's comes across as family oriented on its web page, but it did not seem that way when we were there. I was impressed that it seemed to really be going on a Sunday night, and when we went back the next night it was rolling along just as well. Big place so it took lots of people to seem lively, but it sure did. Do they still have all that Russian lager on tap? That stuff sells for a premium around Washington, DC, not that it is common. Definitely good food (a place with good access to seafood) and clubs in Glasgow, and a vibrant music scene judging by what I read about. Also seemed like a place that was reasonable to get around in. London certainly had its charms but it seemed like an effort to get anywhere. I guess we were avoiding the tubes because of terrorist activities at the time.

 

[The Knize]

Meant to comment on Berlin. I have not been to Berlin for a long time, but it always has had a cutting edge "edge" hasn't it. Not friendly exactly, but very tolerant. Very arty. More than a bit decadent. I have not figured out Stasi bars at all. I guess a kink in the former east German psyche maybe? I guess everything is irony these days? Does seem like an odd thing to joke about. I really had fun in Munich. Very arty when I was there long ago. Friendlier than Berlin. Probably not as edgy though.

Had not thought about any gay scene in Glasgow. Have to admit that I did not notice any gay scene at all when we were there. Not one of my interests, but I would usually have noticed something, I would think. Is that a West End thing, too?

I may be exaggerating to say that JB Black is meant to be "high end," but the marketing seems to be to have it a little more upscale than the white label. Jim Beam is probably thought of as okay for reasonably priced bourbon in the States. But Jim Beam also makes some very well thought of small batch Bourbons--Bakers, Knob Creak, Basil Hayden, Bookers, which are definitely the class of its line up.

 

[DunEdinRanger]

If you like peaty, where does Laphroaig 10 and Ardbeg 10 fall pricewise up in Canada?

If you want a very good, inexpensive blend try Grant's Family Reserve made by the same people who bring you The Balvenie and The Glenfiddich.

The Highland Park 12 is quite good, but I believe the Bhunnahabhain 12 is even better, and should cost less.

 

[Luc]

I took a walk to the bottle shop at lunch time and three bottle caught my attention. Ardbegs, Loch Lommond and it's unfortunate, I forget the last bottle... I will need to go back tomorrow.

The first one was reasonnable in the prices considering how much I pay for my booze, I think it was a 12yo. Loch Lommond, I only saw it in cartoons before (funny isn't it) and didn't know it existed for real. I wonder if it worth a shot. The last bottle was an 18yo and I will probably go for that one, if I can remember the name...

Great list + discussions so far!

 

[scottish steve]

Glasgow was great. We were there with my son's football team, staying at Glasgow University. Stunning football pitches. My son is entering college in the fall, so I think that kind of family trip is in the past, although I wish it weren't. We spent time in Cottier's (unless there is some other church converted to a bar) and wandered around Ashton Lane quite a bit in the evenings. We probably coudl have used a local guide. I remember The Ubiquitous Chip. I did not eat there, but did drink there. The folks that ate there were impressed. What is its rep these days? Cottier's comes across as family oriented on its web page, but it did not seem that way when we were there. I was impressed that it seemed to really be going on a Sunday night, and when we went back the next night it was rolling along just as well. Big place so it took lots of people to seem lively, but it sure did. Do they still have all that Russian lager on tap? That stuff sells for a premium around Washington, DC, not that it is common. Definitely good food (a place with good access to seafood) and clubs in Glasgow, and a vibrant music scene judging by what I read about. Also seemed like a place that was reasonable to get around in. London certainly had its charms but it seemed like an effort to get anywhere. I guess we were avoiding the tubes because of terrorist activities at the time.

The Chip's been living off its rep for years now. It used to be very good, but has been taken over by the others I mentioned. Thoough, they might pull it back you ever know. Did you go upstairs to the "smoking balcony"? That's the best bit. Ashton Lane used to be great, but its now more like the city centre....i.e. loads of people drinking in the clothes they bought that day to go clubbing in. The Lismor's about 10 mins walk from there, and just round the corner from Cottiers, which is ok but a bit pretentious, especially on Sundays, when people go to outcool each other- "78" is where more actually creative and bohemian people go- no Louis Vuitton there. There are just as many good places to eat and drink etc, but now they're a bit spread out.

 

[verminisjk]

If you like peaty, where does Laphroaig 10 and Ardbeg 10 fall pricewise up in Canada?

If you want a very good, inexpensive blend try Grant's Family Reserve made by the same people who bring you The Balvenie and The Glenfiddich.

The Highland Park 12 is quite good, but I believe the Bhunnahabhain 12 is even better, and should cost less.

In Quebec, Ardbeg, laphroaig and Bhunnahabhain are not available.

 

[Obsessed]

In Quebec, Ardbeg, laphroaig and Bhunnahabhain are not available.

That's a shame - the Ardbeg 10 y.o. and Laphroaig 10 y.o. are, IMHO, among the best values out there if you like the peaty Islay whiskies such as Lagavulin. I presume they are available in other parts of Canada?

 

[Luc]

In Quebec, Ardbeg, laphroaig and Bhunnahabhain are not available.

If you go around (Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scottia or Newfoundland) you might find something. I'm sure members living in those respective provinces could chip in at this point to confirm the availability.

It so strange how booze is sold in the same country but differently in the provinces... Last time I was in Nova Scotia, they have independants bottle shops that sell beer/wine/spirits...

I think I saw those 3 yesterday so I will try to get a bottle of each

 

[DunEdinRanger]

The 12 year old Bhunnahabhain is around $40 here in NJ. A bargain.

 

[The Knize]

The Chip's been living off its rep for years now. It used to be very good, but has been taken over by the others I mentioned. Thoough, they might pull it back you ever know. Did you go upstairs to the "smoking balcony"? That's the best bit. Ashton Lane used to be great, but its now more like the city centre....i.e. loads of people drinking in the clothes they bought that day to go clubbing in. The Lismor's about 10 mins walk from there, and just round the corner from Cottiers, which is ok but a bit pretentious, especially on Sundays, when people go to outcool each other- "78" is where more actually creative and bohemian people go- no Louis Vuitton there. There are just as many good places to eat and drink etc, but now they're a bit spread out.

If the smoking balcony is above the main part of the restaurant where you can look down on that main part, I was definitely there. There was a good long article on The Chip in a cooking magazine I subscribed to right after we got back to the States that made the owners seem like real pioneers. I did not realize ownership had changed. Happens everywhere as you describe. The really interesting spots get popular and them are not as interesting are are more touristy, etc. as the cooler folks move onto some other place. But that is the way it is supposed to work. The old places whether clubs or restaurants lose some energy, and some new places fill the void. Or some new restaurant builds on the glory of what came before and does it a little better. All very natural, but not every town in the world has that.

We were tourists and not trying to hide it. We did not have anyone to guide us.

I am sorry I missed Lismor's. I frankly could not figure out what the draw to Cottiers was. No music or anything. Just a big bar in a former church. It seemed like it would be boring to me, except it was huge and packed with people, so that makes it lively just by itself. And people do seem to like to drink there. And hundred of whiskies plus excellent cold lager on tap. Although as far as I can tell, the Scots do not drink much Scotch when they are out on the town. Any town that has a big Sunday night scene anywhere seems like it has a good club scene to me. How did Sunday come to be the night "when people go to outcool each other"!

Scotland overall has really developed into this hot, creative music and art place, hasn't it?

 

[Luc]

Further to my previous post about the 3 scotchs, I went back to the bottle shop and now remember the missing bottle.

Ardbegs - 10 - This sounds like a favorite and good so I will try it.
Loch Lommond - ? - Was in the cartoons, unsure as it might taste like booze and burn without any flavours... Any thoughts?
Glenlivet - 18 - That one looked great, good priced bottle. I know price vs quality is like wine, YMMV... Any notes on that one?