Ohio Bluestones - Queer Creek, Berea, Bear Creek, etc.

[gbupp]

There are few threads for specific versions of the Ohio Bluestones but none about them broadly or for posting pickups. I know the stones don't have a big following, but I still find them interesting along with any other natural whetstone that has had some level of prominence over the years.

After reading up on these stones, the topic I was the most interested in was how Berea Sandstones compared to Queer Creek. Queer Creek doesn't have the best reputation, and Berea was said to be better but doesn't seem to have the same quantity floating around. Queer Creek sold under Clear Creek continues to be available on the market, Imy understanding is that a lot of this type of stone is pulled out of the ground for oil exploration and the whetstones are just a "why not" by product of that larger industry. It does not look to me that Berea is still producing commercial whetstones, but they are I believe still pulling out of the ground for those same industrial applications.

The two whetstones I have to compare the Berea versus the Norton are both older version of both. I am unsure when the Berea was produced, but it came in a stamped wooden box where it was labelled as "fine-grit", and the Queer Creek is a Norton I believe from the 80s. Both had been used with oil, and both have been thoroughly degreased. One nice thing about these Ohio Bluestones is that they degrease incredibly well, even losing the oil smell if you run it through simple green enough times.

The larger stone is the Berea, with the 7" smaller one being the Norton Queer Creek. So first we can just take a look at the stones (dry):

And now wet:

You can tell pretty immediately that though related, they are in fact different compositions. The Berea is far more homogonous, and lacks almost any "sparkling" within it's makeup. The Queer Creek on the other hand though feels and looks much coarser, and in thsi wet picture the sparkling grit is easily seen.

Let's get a macro photo for comparison:

It plays out pretty similarly in the marco shot, though I find the difference even more stark with them in hand under a loupe. So with their difference in look, how does their performance compare? Let's look at some polishing and cutting tests first.

Berea:

And now the Queer Creek:

The Berea is certainly finer than the Queer Creek - though none of them will fool you into believing they aren't sandstones. The Berea is also faster cutting, and in practice it's surface will cut longer than the Queer Creek will before conditioning the surface is necessary. I would say that the Berea cuts about 3x longer than the Queer Creek does. Both cutting tests were done conditioning the surface with a 140 Atoma and than washing off the slurry. With slurry the Queer Creek cuts a bit longer, but the Berea still has way more follow through.

Both are fairly soft stones, but the Queer Creek is quite a bit softer than the Berea. I cannot scratch into the Berea with my fingernail, I can with the Queer Creek stone. This also translates into slurry generation, where a few swipes with an Atoma gives you a pile of mud with the Queer Creek whereas the Berea generates thin slurry with the same effort. As would be expected by this point as well, I found the Berea to perform better with cutting higher HRC than the Queer Creek - though I doubt neither would be stellar options for extremely high HRC knives. I tested ~62 HRC.

To me, these both feel like other stones I have had experience with.:

Berea Sandstone performs extremely similarly to a Dalmore Blue. Blind test it would be very hard to tell them apart.
Norton Queer Creek performs very similar to a Japanese Omura stone. This I could still determine in a Blind test, but they feel very similar in capabilities and end results.

In my opinion, both of these stones suffer from three things:

• The most common issue with middle grit stones - that they are slower than synthetics. This is going to be true of any comparable middle grit natural stones, even the "best" ones.
• They don't look pretty. The visually boring nature of the stones makes them less enticing to people "just to have".
• No interesting pedigree. I think many don't find US stone inherently interesting, combined with their visual properties being drab not much draws people to these.

 

[gbupp]

Someday I will get a Bear Creek and be able to follow up with that compared, or someone else could follow up throwing it or other rarer versions into the mix.

 

[ables]

Got my Bear Creek stone in and messed around with it. Compared it with my Norton Blue Labeled Queer Creek and what I'm 98% sure is a dalmore.

QC-BC-Dalmore
View attachment 1501680

On edge
View attachment 1501681

QC slurried, BC, Dalmore Slurried

View attachment 1501683

Dalmore left and Bear Creek Right slurry

View attachment 1501684


QC is 2.3g/cc, BC 2.37 and Dalmore 2.53. Honestly those densities almost tell the story of my grit guesses: QC 1-1.5k, BC 2-2.5k, and Dalmore 4-5k. The BC is a pretty soft and feels nicer to use than the QC but the dalmore feels fantastic. The dalmore has most sparkle but they all have some. And under 50-100X magnification you can really tell these stones are familial. The BC I think was unused and you can see the individual grains of sand matrix clean and clear, the other stones have very similar look but both had been oiled/degreased which makes them darker. The QC is the least homogeneous with what seem like boulders here and there, while the BC and dalmore are more uniform.

The QC and BC are quite close but I think they are not the same exactly. For speed the QC starts to glaze over pretty bad but this BC was maintenaning a fresh surface better as it feels softer atleast. The BC feels like a nice razor stone actually. Neither of them are as nice as Soft arks/washita for knives though, and they certainly wear faster. My QC was surprisingly dished tonight after using it maybe 5 times since last lapping.

Pretty fun stones, my Rozsutec is finer and harder than all these guys but similar. I don't have a hindostan yet but feel like they would be in this same family of stones. Will find one someday. None are speedy but probably can get the job done with patience. I'm gonna do a razor progression from QC>BC>Dalmore>Rozsutec for fun when I get the time.

Here's a link to a post I made about labeled Queer Creek/Bear Creek and what I still believe to be a Dalmore. But it sounds like could be a Berea based on your post. I have 2 stones from UK that match it IMO which makes me think it is dalmore. My Bear Creek is right between the QC and Dalmore.

There's also the deerlick, razor grit, and eagle lake stones I guess are similar.

I have a few more of these type stones and have spent alot of time messing around with them. For knives they are good stones but still outclassed by washitas. I don't really like the QC for razors, it just doesn't feel great.

 

[Empire straights]

Here's a link to a post I made about labeled Queer Creek/Bear Creek and what I still believe to be a Dalmore. But it sounds like could be a Berea based on your post. I have 2 stones from UK that match it IMO which makes me think it is dalmore. My Bear Creek is right between the QC and Dalmore.

There's also the deerlick, razor grit, and eagle lake stones I guess are similar.

I have a few more of these type stones and have spent alot of time messing around with them. For knives they are good stones but still outclassed by washitas. I don't really like the QC for razors, it just doesn't feel great.

QC are good stone for tools and garden implements that need a semi toothy mid range stone. Id pick a soft washita over it but that doesn't say a whole lot, I like washitas. Queer creek stones like pressure. They get a bad reputation for being slow but if you "put your nose to the grind stone" they speed up some.

 

[gbupp]

Here's a link to a post I made about labeled Queer Creek/Bear Creek and what I still believe to be a Dalmore. But it sounds like could be a Berea based on your post. I have 2 stones from UK that match it IMO which makes me think it is dalmore. My Bear Creek is right between the QC and Dalmore.

There's also the deerlick, razor grit, and eagle lake stones I guess are similar.

I have a few more of these type stones and have spent alot of time messing around with them. For knives they are good stones but still outclassed by washitas. I don't really like the QC for razors, it just doesn't feel great.

Thanks for adding in! I did see this post earlier, but I think it was more a Bear Creek centric post (IIRC). Seems a lot like maybe that Bear Creek is coming from the same relative stock as the Berea. Though this Berea I would peg above the 3k range myself so maybe the Bear Creek sits more between QC and Berea. Also, a chance just natural stone to stone differences swings it all a little here and there as is normal.

 

[gbupp]

QC are good stone for tools and garden implements that need a semi toothy mid range stone. Id pick a soft washita over it but that doesn't say a whole lot, I like washitas. Queer creek stones like pressure. They get a bad reputation for being slow but if you "put your nose to the grind stone" they speed up some.

My QC from testing certainly exhausts faster than other stones, but not so much that it is unusable. Some stones just want to be refreshed more often than not and - as you said - you can get more mileage out of it with pressure for sure. Most sandstones respond well to pressure I find.

 

[Gamma]

If I needed to sharpen a lawn mower blade, I wouldn't mind if I had to use one or two of the sandstone types... they work.
If someone put half a dozen varieties of sand stone out next to a set of Arks... I'll take the Arks. If I have the option to choose good synthetics, I would probably go that way instead.
I liked the feel of the Norton Queer Creek stones I've had, there's been several here from a few generations... all similar feeling under the blade. I preferred them over Hindostan types.

 

[Legion]

Another that is supposed to be along the same lines is the Dear Lick oilstone. I cannot say how they compare to the others though, and I have actually still not got around to using the example I have.

 

[duke762]

IIRC I was researching Queer Creeks and read some old, old, information that claimed that the slurry produced on the stone produced a finer edge than the stone itself. Sounds like a backwards Coticule experience. Has anyone seen this happen?

I had to have a couple just to see how things were sharpened before synthetics. Like, what would the poorer, farmer have. Most likely only Doctor's, jewelers, veterinarians and wood workers had the means or need for an Arkansas, Coticule, Thuri, etc. Okay maybe butchers, saddle/harness makers.....and barbers.

I think I could maintain my farm tools on one but thankfully, I don't have to. I lost interest quickly....Like my Hindo's, now they sit and take up room I don't have. Hoarding tendencies and H.A.D. Could lead to homelessness or the nervous hospital....

 

[gbupp]

Another that is supposed to be along the same lines is the Dear Lick oilstone. I cannot say how they compare to the others though, and I have actually still not got around to using the example I have.

View attachment 1635665View attachment 1635666

I have one of this variety on the way, but my understanding both with the stone layout of the region and some preliminary testing from another user that the Deerlick stones are either a related stone with a fairly different composition (tighter/finer grit) or likely based on distribution of stone within Ohio a different formation all together. Of course, it is still sandstone though just not of the same era of creation. I do know that Deerlick stones had a wide variety, so I believe it is a bit of a roll of the dice for how each will perform. I did not put them here because of that myself.

 

[gbupp]

Just measured out the SG for each, so figured I would add it here:

Berea: 2.44
QC: 2.15

 

[Empire straights]

Just measured out the SG for each, so figured I would add it here:

Berea: 2.44
QC: 2.15

I'm surprised the qc is that low.

 

[gbupp]

I'm surprised the qc is that low.

I have a second one coming (not really what I wanted but didn't figure out it's label until it was already sent) - I can see how that stacks up. Maybe this QC is particularly low density, it certainly feels friable and self-slurries eagerly.

 

[Empire straights]

I have a second one coming (not really what I wanted but didn't figure out it's label until it was already sent) - I can see how that stacks up. Maybe this QC is particularly low density, it certainly feels friable and self-slurries eagerly.

I never noticed mine self slurrying, maybe I need to play with it again. It's been a long time.

 

[gbupp]

I never noticed mine self slurrying, maybe I need to play with it again. It's been a long time.

If you look at the picture I posted in my initial reply with the cutting performance (right before the polishing example), you can see it has self slurried there. On the right of the swarf is just kicked up grit particles. Neither of the stones were slurried before I used them, so that kick up is just from the stone's friability under the blade.

 

[Empire straights]

If you look at the picture I posted in my initial reply with the cutting performance (right before the polishing example), you can see it has self slurried there. On the right of the swarf is just kicked up grit particles. Neither of the stones were slurried before I used them, so that kick up is just from the stone's friability under the blade.

Very interesting. I wonder if they vary as much as coticules do in the sense of self slurry.

 

[Legion]

I just did my Deerlick stone. It's not 100% degreased, but I got 2.46

 

[Alum of Potash]

Very nice write-up and pictures. Thank you. Last summer, I passed by Oberlin, Ohio, and visited an active Berea sandstone quarry nearby (Berea being the type rather than exact location). There, quarrying is partly oriented toward architectural and landscaping use, but another use that they are quite proud of is the bluestone as used for petroleum-boring purposes in Saudi Arabia. The sandstone being very absorptive, it is driven deep into the earth to determine how much oil is there. I chatted with the owner a little bit, and he said that sandstone used for honing purposes should always be used with water, never oil.

Edit: Just hauled out a box of samples that I picked up at the time. The stones look pretty coarse, perhaps coarser than Queer Creek, but then again, I am looking at them as cut rather than lapped. There is another type, looking even coarser, that has layering lines similar to Hindostan.

 

[Empire straights]

Very nice write-up and pictures. Thank you. Last summer, I passed by Oberlin, Ohio, and visited an active Berea sandstone quarry nearby (Berea being the type rather than exact location). There, quarrying is partly oriented toward architectural and landscaping use, but another use that they are quite proud of is the bluestone as used for petroleum-boring purposes in Saudi Arabia. The sandstone being very absorptive, it is driven deep into the earth to determine how much oil is there. I chatted with the owner a little bit, and he said that sandstone used for honing purposes should always be used with water, never oil.

Edit: Just hauled out a box of samples that I picked up at the time. The stones look pretty coarse, perhaps coarser than Queer Creek, but then again, I am looking at them as cut rather than lapped. There is another type, looking even coarser, that has layering lines similar to Hindostan.

Fascinating! I love any excuse to make a stone that's perceived as boring(haha, boring) as interesting as possible. I got a very pristine queer creek, in its box, but didn't expect anything special from it. I remember it being very hard but not as slow or coarse as it was made out to be sometimes. I only used water on it but I remember thinking that it made sense it was marketed as a cheaper replacement for washitas because of your careful with you knife they end up at about the same spot. I did spit on it a lit during one session but I don't think I put oil on it because it's got a perfect label and sandstones are like sponges.

 

[Empire straights]

Funnily enough though, I'm pretty sure the Dalmore I've inherited recently, has seen a lot of oil, I'm OK with that. It'll give a better surface finish, even if I degrease it.