North Korea Missile Test

[mark the shoeshine boy]

i am so glad you guys like each other....great debate....and without any name calling...very good...

I love what I am reading...I can not add to this, so except for little commnets like this, I am staying out of the way and just learning...

mark tssb

 

[JohnP]

Ah, but you see that's not how it works. Canada, while officially a constitutional monarchy, has the Queen only as a purely figurative, non-political head of state. Indeed, it's been many, many years since the ruler of the UK actually even selected whom was to be Canada's "Governor General", who acts as their proxy since naturally the monarch resides in England. Yes, until 1982 Canada was not officially independent, but in reality the country had been an entirely independent state throughout the 20th century, although for the first quarter of it the English portion considered Britian to be the Mother-land (which is why Canada jumped right into WWI with such gusto. If Britian was at war, Canada was at war, simple as that - but try telling that to our French Canadians!).

Canada's political history amounts, not to a single national ideology, but rather to an extremely diverse one, which is primarily due to the original difficulty of incorporating the conquored French colony of Quebec into the British colonies. Simply maintaining a strong military presence wasn't going to work in a large colony with a strong population, so accomodation had to be made for the French system within the British system. Therefore, while the British traditions of common law are dominant, French civil law traditions are also prominent (in Quebec they still have an entirely different judicial system), although recently the two traditions are becoming increasingly flexible. Canada was - fortunately, I beleive - birthed from not one but TWO national ideologies, which forced us, even before our inception as a nation, to develop institutions which have room to accomodate both. Of course, this has not been easy, but it has made our very survival as a country dependent on our ability to build relationships of mutual trust and acceptance - a quality which I believe has uniquely prepared Canada for many of the difficult problems of national identity arising from globalization, which the vast majority of other nations are having to deal with for the first time.

Far be it from me to lecture a Canadian on how his own country works....thanks for the history lesson. I had also wondered about the issues that we sometimes see on the news concerning Quebec. Here in the states the in depth part is often left out, leaving us to fill in the blanks for ourselves. I've even heard that current history textbooks in California cannot say negative about any group of people, and are required to show participation of all ethnic and national groups whenever possible in the good....I may be a little off in this, any current California history teachers amongst us feel free to chime in and clarify....but I cannot see how one can get an unbiased education in history, or even a factual one, if, for instance,one cannot mention the horrors of the holocaust, or for instance, if no Japanese-Americans took part in the Crusades....some education. Anyone recently educated by the California school system feel free to explain it better to me.

Certainly they should not be allowed to carry our their wrongful acts as they wish, but that doesn't mean that force is to be answered or prevented with greater force. I'm no pacifist, but sometimes greater force only causes more trouble, when a more understanding approach could have greatly diffused a difficult situation.

Perhaps I misspoke. I am not implying we should pre-emptively do devastating harm to people we think could, in the future, become a threat. I am simply saying that to show weakness is to invite attack. Potential enemies are less likely to attack if they feel they will suffer gravely if they do so....

John, I agree, although the definition of a "world war" has increasingly gotten more global. In my opinion, the first world war was actually the Napoleonic wars, which featured an unheared of arrangement of allies against a dictator attempting to conquor Europe. WWI saw a similar situation, but with non-European nations assisting for the first time. WWII is when world wars actually become global, with a multitude of fronts spread over three continents and both oceans.

I think because of advances in communication and transportation world wars spread faster and, because more countries are involved at the same time, end faster. In the age of sail and horse, Adolf Hitler would have been similar to Napolean, conquering and seldom having to fight on more than one front. By the time Americans and Canadians could join the fray in numbers to mean much, it would have been over...
I am a huge history buff, but am a little saddened that in most US high school textbooks world war II only earns a page or two at best, and the war of 1812 (where Americans invaded Canada, Canadians invaded the US ...and burned Washington DC to the ground, by the way...and for whatever reason the British signed the treaty with the U.S.) earns only a paragraph or two....
We are dooming our young to repeat history, by not teaching it to them.
It is obvious we do not all see things the same, but thanks to this conversation, I can at least respect some of the opposing points of view a good deal more.
By comparison, it would seem many of our politicians are like squabbling children...it is too bad people who think for themselves are seldom allowed to reach the level of a national leader these days. Perhaps because the people who REALLY run our different countries...do not like the idea of someone who will not be their puppet...
And Mark, I'll bet you could bring just as much to this mess as any of the rest of us do....I have my opinions, but I find I have to re-check the facts before I speak...it is refreshing actually having to think, for a change, rather than simply have an opinion.
John P.

 

[Xert]

John, I have been waiting quite a while to say this: I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

[JohnP]

Great...just great. Now who will I be able to argue with NEXT week....Mark, got any more controversial questions to throw at us?
Stephen, John, everybody, this one has been a blast.


John P.

 

[mark the shoeshine boy]

paper or plastic ???

 

[JohnP]

Save a tree use plastic....
John P.

 

[Xert]

Save the environment, use paper...

 

[JohnP]

John P.

 

[Livingston]

John...you're a hoot. Great positions. Everyone here in America should speak English - and that's all there is to it.

Livingston

 

[yasuo200365]

Livingstone,

As long as that 'should' doesn't turn into a 'must' I would agree with you...., otherwise it is not practical or fair.

Regards
John

 

[yasuo200365]

JohnP

In an earlier posting you wrote that the abuse scandal broke in the US first and my first hand account that the US media was slow to report the story was simply wrong -

here is a link to a BBC web page of the time backing up my account:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3675479.stm

Also Rendition flights are not organised for an 'interrogation' i.e. a nice Q&A session, but instead they involve torture in countries not known for their respect for humanity - i.e. a heard a man this week on the radio describe how his genitals were cut with a knife - he sobbed as he told his account and like many he no doubt has the scars to prove it.

Is your media asking the hard questions of your leaders? Are the American people being well served?

Regards
John

 

[yasuo200365]

Following on from the above here is a link about rendition:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4822374.stm

Regards
John

 

[JohnP]

JohnP

In an earlier posting you wrote that the abuse scandal broke in the US first and my first hand account that the US media was slow to report the story was simply wrong -

here is a link to a BBC web page of the time backing up my account:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3675479.stm

Also Rendition flights are not organised for an 'interrogation' i.e. a nice Q&A session, but instead they involve torture in countries not known for their respect for humanity - i.e. a heard a man this week on the radio describe how his genitals were cut with a knife - he sobbed as he told his account and like many he no doubt has the scars to prove it.

Is your media asking the hard questions of your leaders? Are the American people being well served?

Regards
John

Are you sure John? You HEARD him sobbing on the radio? Forgive me for being a skeptic...as I know little information of any worth is truly gotten through torture, as the tortured person will be inclined to say anything his captors want to make whatever the uncomfortable situation is, stop. However...there is HUGE propaganda value to CLAIMING that Americans (or whichever country you wish to debase in the international media) did such things to you.
If indeed his genitals were cut with a knife, that is definitely unfortunate for him, and IF Americans did this to him, that is also unfortunate.
John P.

 

[Kyle]

 

[JohnP]

Ok, I admit it...the picture was funny....
John P.

 

[yasuo200365]

JohnP

If it were just the one person claiming the existance of Rendition flights (where the US/CIA acts as courier for other countries to torture),then I to would be a sceptic.

However there are quite a number claiming, from various countries and backgrounds and they have the scars to back it up. Their is also the documentation from various countries air traffic control to show that flights to dubious destinations took place. Finally during the cold war the CIA did this type of thing and worse, so they have a history - although I have a feeling you will deny this last point.

I think the US public will believe it a little more than 'unfortunate' that these things are being done. At the very least the media should be asking the difficult questions about the existance of such a policy?, its aim?, is it legal? is it moral? is it counter-productive?

So is your media serving the American people well? Would we be where we are now if they did (IMV) a better job?

I noticed you did'nt mention anything about the first half of my posting - maybe you now agree with me?

Regards
John

 

[guenron]

Not half as funny as some of the imaginative facts.

 

[fret]

Everybody PLEASE wish Dubya good health for the next few years; he's the only thing keeping the US totally out of Dick Cheney's clutches...
Mott

 

[guenron]

Everybody PLEASE wish Dubya good health for the next few years; he's the only thing keeping the US totally out of Dick Cheney's clutches...
Mott

You sure you live in McClain County?

 

[yasuo200365]

Fraud and falsehood only dread examination. Truth invites it.
- Thomas Cooper (1759-1851)

Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. - George Bernard Shaw.

And to illustrate both quotes - the recent suggestion (I saw the interview so it's not here-say) by a senior US administration official that three suicides in one day by prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay was a "good PR move" - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5069230.stm

For me, Schurtz defines the real Patriot, not some flag waver who believes his country can do no wrong:
Our country when right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right - Carl Schurtz (1829-1906) American legislator, reformer, and journalist.

Happy July 4th to those US forum members.

Regards
John