US National debt

[gpjoe]

Officially over 34 trillion dollars.

I just saw a graphic on TV that was more astounding than the debt number:

National Debt: $34,000,000,000,000
Debt per citizen: $101,000
Debt per tazpayer: $264,000

(All above amounts rounded)

Anyway, I fired up my calculator, and found that using the above numbers, there are 336 million US citizens but only 128 million taxpayers.

WTH?...only one out of three citizens in the US pays taxes?...what am I doing wrong?

 

[Hms123]

Children. Some retirees with low incomes. Students with no/low incomes. Working adults with low incomes and children. That should get you started.

Who Is Not Required to File Tax Returns?

The Internal Revenue Service requires you to file a tax return in order to claim a refund or pay tax deficiencies on certain income. Otherwise, you might not be required to file. Other than certain special situations, the IRS bases requirements primarily on your gross income and filing status...

finance.zacks.com

 

[Alum Ladd]

Officially over 34 trillion dollars.

I just saw a graphic on TV that was more astounding than the debt number:

National Debt: $34,000,000,000,000
Debt per citizen: $101,000
Debt per tazpayer: $264,000

(All above amounts rounded)

Anyway, I fired up my calculator, and found that using the above numbers, there are 336 million US citizens but only 128 million taxpayers.

WTH?...only one out of three citizens in the US pays taxes?...what am I doing wrong?

About 168,000,000 according to the Pew Research organisation.

That should get you started.

And this will make you wish you never asked

Who pays, and doesn't pay, federal income taxes in the U.S.? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/18/who-pays-and-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-in-the-us/#:~:text=The%20IRS%20expects%20more%20than,incomes%20pay%20at%20higher%20rates.

 

[luvmysuper]

A Trillion here, a Trillion there, and pretty soon you're talking big money!

 

[brucered]

You can watch it increase in real time.

What Is the U.S. National Debt Right Now — and Why Is It So High?

See the latest numbers and learn more about the causes of our high and rising national debt.

www.pgpf.org

 

[Lockback]

Officially over 34 trillion dollars.

I just saw a graphic on TV that was more astounding than the debt number:

National Debt: $34,000,000,000,000
Debt per citizen: $101,000
Debt per tazpayer: $264,000

(All above amounts rounded)

Anyway, I fired up my calculator, and found that using the above numbers, there are 336 million US citizens but only 128 million taxpayers.

WTH?...only one out of three citizens in the US pays taxes?...what am I doing wrong?

Our leaders have failed us. Promised too much to buy votes and haven't done the hard work of actually leading.

 

[gpjoe]

Children. Some retirees with low incomes. Students with no/low incomes. Working adults with low incomes and children. That should get you started.

Who Is Not Required to File Tax Returns?

The Internal Revenue Service requires you to file a tax return in order to claim a refund or pay tax deficiencies on certain income. Otherwise, you might not be required to file. Other than certain special situations, the IRS bases requirements primarily on your gross income and filing status...

finance.zacks.com

Fair point.

So, I need to get younger, or poorer, or hire a crack-shot tax accountant.

 

[Shaveprentice]

Very sad! It has been a slow(getting faster) motion train wreck that was something we could have fairly easily avoided if our politicians actually did what was in the best interest of our country and not special interests they are beholding to and themselves. I remember back in the day several decades ago when a Federal balanced budget amendment almost got passed. Now it will be very difficult or impossible problem to solve.

 

[gpjoe]

About 168,000,000 according to the Pew Research organisation.


And this will make you wish you never asked

Who pays, and doesn't pay, federal income taxes in the U.S.? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/18/who-pays-and-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-in-the-us/#:~:text=The%20IRS%20expects%20more%20than,incomes%20pay%20at%20higher%20rates.

Didn't read all of it, too mind numbing.

Though it did say that only two-thirds of the 168 million individuals filing would end up owing taxes. The other one-third would be exempt. That comes to 112 million taxpayers actually paying taxes, which is even fewer than the 128 million that I cited.

Yikes.

 

[gpjoe]

Very sad! It has been a slow(getting faster) motion train wreck that was something we could have fairly easily avoided if our politicians actually did what was in the best interest of our country and not special interests they are beholding to and themselves. I remember back in the day several decades ago when a Federal balanced budget amendment almost got passed. Now it will be very difficult or impossible problem to solve.

And I (honestly) don't want to turn this into Right vs Left...but don't the young voters enamored with politicians advocating debt forgiveness and other government hand-outs realize that such programs actually increase THEIR future debt liability (in terms of national debt)?

Pay me now or pay me later.

 

[luvmysuper]

The young never think about the future.
Whether it's debt, joints that go bad from dumb stunts, giving away privacy rights, or what is posted on the internet.
We were all young once, and suffered similar lapses of judgment.

 

[Lightcs1776]

The young never think about the future.
Whether it's debt, joints that go bad from dumb stunts, giving away privacy rights, or what is posted on the internet.
We were all young once, and suffered similar lapses of judgment.

Somewhat true. My wife and I were frugal when we were young. We still are for the most part. I have two kids that are frugal and two that are definitely not. Life will teach them to tighten their belts. However, I agree with the statement as a generalization.

 

[Chef455]

And I (honestly) don't want to turn this into Right vs Left...

Alas this type of discussion inherently heads this (these?) direction. I'm already biting my tongue. I respect a wide array of opinions, but I fear this thread may be infringing on our oasis. YMMV.

 

[Lightcs1776]

Alas this type of discussion inherently heads this (these?) direction. I'm already biting my tongue. I respect a wide array of opinions, but I fear this thread may be infringing on our oasis. YMMV.

You and me both, but the fine gentlemen at B&B can do it. I have confidence in them.

 

[luvmysuper]

Alas this type of discussion inherently heads this (these?) direction. I'm already biting my tongue. I respect a wide array of opinions, but I fear this thread may be infringing on our oasis. YMMV.

If you believe that someone has "crossed the Rubicon", report the post and we'll be happy to review.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I struggle to comprehend who the counterparties are for all this debt. All governments are in debt, virtually all businesses, most people. Doesn’t it have to balance somehow so that for every trillion an entity owes, there is somebody, somewhere who has a trillion in surplus assets? Investment funds, pension schemes, savings? They can’t amount to this much, can they? I suspect it doesn’t balance at all, by a huge margin.

I know that interest is being paid on all the debt, but it always seems like almost everybody has net debts and I don’t understand how that can be. I suppose it has to do with the fact that almost all of the ‘money supply’ today is merely accounting entries - book loans, derivatives, etc. and almost none of it is actual currency.

And what happens in the future? Does everybody continue borrowing this non-existent ‘money’ until they exceed their capacity to pay the interest and taxes cannot be raised any further to pay interest (since people will starve to death and then they can’t pay tax)? I assume with a seemingly infinite ability to expand the ‘money supply’ there will always be lenders willing to grant loans to governments, predicated on the governments’ ability to increase taxation to pay the interest - it is not for the lenders to judge whether lending more to a government is detrimental to the financial welfare of its citizens.

Where does it all end? When the entire global economy is employed only in servicing debt? Does the last person to go bankrupt inherit the Earth? Is that the game?

 

[musicman1951]

Fair point.

So, I need to get younger, or poorer, or hire a crack-shot tax accountant.

You're best bet at this point is to get very, very rich.

 

[Butch Waxx]

You're best bet at this point is to get very, very rich.

I concur with your thinking @musicman1951 ……The fast path is to take a job in the SEC as head football coach and then get fired as soon as possible!

 

[musicman1951]

The national debt increased by more than 89% since the beginning of the pandemic, but we had more important priorities - like saving a few lives. Sometimes we bet on a big tax break for the wealthy, and sometimes we lose the bet. While I'm personally anti-debt it's never our biggest problem. We'll just print more money!!!!

 

[gpjoe]

I concur with your thinking @musicman1951 ……The fast path is to take a job in the SEC as head football coach and then get fired as soon as possible!

...or president of Harvard.