my quikc experience using the Chinese 12K

[global_dev]

i am sporadically honing and finding that i can get a decent edge with what i have been doing, but not spectacular... i think it's just practice and experience...

my question is about the C12K and my experience last night... i was trying to hone/finish a joe allen non-xll medium grind. last week or so i got a nice bevel on it with a DMT green whetstone, did a coti dilutions, and finishing with water, stropped 60/60 linen/leather (i don't remember on which strop though and i don't recall if i hit the C12K) and it cut ok. a decent, but really unacceptable shave after 1 pass, CCS after 2, and a CCS/DFS after 3 passes, with a bit of weakness on my neck area.

that was yesterdays shave. just for kicks, i went over the shave with a Feather Portable/Astra gentle WTG and managed some more scruff off.

After the shave I went to the C12K to spend some time and see if i get a better edge. I spent about 30 minutes doing x passes with water with a layer of tape on the spine. i saw little improvement. I did notice that I have these black veins/streaks running through the dark grey stone..I figured what the hell, added another layer of tape and i started to do about 10 passes of 20 circles each. After this, i noticed that the edge appeared vastly superior as arm hair was popping off the edge on 5/6 of the blade *w/o stropping), the point and heel need a rolling stroke and my circles weren't able to accommodate that.

So is it likely that this stone is just super slow.. or I hadn't decently progressed on the coticule...

Another quick question, any slurry made on this will enhance the edge since it's a natural stone?

this pic was off the green DMT whetstone, just to make sure i had a decent bevel

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I wish I had better pictures, but lately my droid camera has been taking poorer pictures in low light and I blame CM6.2.

 

[danjared]

You are correct that the Chinese hone is slower (and less fine) than your coticule. Out of curiosity, have you tried unicot?

 

[azmark]

You are correct that the Chinese hone is painfully slower (and less fine) than your coticule. Out of curiosity, have you tried unicot?

ftfy

 

[danjared]

ftfy

Ha, thanks.

 

[global_dev]

You are correct that the Chinese hone is slower (and less fine) than your coticule. Out of curiosity, have you tried unicot?

1) so is there a rule of thumb on the fineness of a coticule? would a slurried C12K approach be finer than a water only approach on C12K?

2) I honestly thought I have tried unicot, IAW http://coticule.be/unicot.html, and truth be told I probably haven't as i reread them for the jillionth time. I have probably combining the two with the tape and dilution steps, due to general mayhem and confusion in my house and not paying enough attention.

As I reread them now, i see the differences in approach and probably need to try it again..

 

[pedro083]

The only thing that is striking me is strange is the more tape, did you use two layers on the couticle or at bevel setting, if not what did you use. If you used two layers for the first part then changed to 1 for the 12k you would not polish the bevel properly, also if you used 1 layer then went to 2 on the finisher you would create a double bevel.

 

[Wid]

The only thing that is striking me is strange is the more tape, did you use two layers on the couticle or at bevel setting, if not what did you use. If you used two layers for the first part then changed to 1 for the 12k you would not polish the bevel properly, also if you used 1 layer then went to 2 on the finisher you would create a double bevel.

I didn't quite understand this either.

The Chinese stone is slow but when I was using one I would use it with a slurry, 50 or so strokes, then just water till done. That would normally take another 50 or so. Got some real good edges with it.

Seems to me your trying to double up on finishing stones. Why bother with the C12K when using the coti?

 

[global_dev]

my poor explanation..

Day 1: 1 layer of tape at bevel set on DMT and finishing on coticule.
Day 2: shaved
Day 3: i went back to the C12K, I initially put on 1 to match the angle from earlier and when it was going really slow, I added a second...was attempting something like double bevel to see if i could improve the edge.

 

[Wid]

Oh, OK. I've done a double bevel before but only on a wedge. It worked pretty good.

 

[global_dev]

just shaved off the edge after stropping 20/40 linen/leather and it was remarkable. I really liked it compared to yesterdays edge..

now i don't know if it was 2 day vs 1 day growth, stropping, lather, or technique but i really think i am not using the coticule correctly and definitely hadn't spent enough time on the C12K or maybe it was the second bevel from the tape...

I did notice that the first pass is a great indicator of an edge for me... i had none of these half-shaft hairs i got yesterday and previously.

what a nice shave... 2 passes, face: WTG/XTG neck: S/N (both XTG) and DFS.

 

[danjared]

now i don't know if it was 2 day vs 1 day growth, stropping, lather, or technique but i really think i am not using the coticule correctly and definitely hadn't spent enough time on the C12K or maybe it was the second bevel from the tape...

If you manage to get a good coticule edge, I can assure you that you're degrading it by using that Chinese "12k". If you can handle some bad days, I recommend keeping at it with just the coticule. That will help you become good at it very quickly (and very good at it with just a bit more time). Check out the stickies in the Coticule Tavern at Coticule.be as well as the tips in the unicot and dilucot articles.

 

[jeness]

Ch12k stones are natural stones oo, so they vary in grit too. But I think that it is hard to find a better finisher among them than a coti.

 

[global_dev]

last 2 shaves off the C12K have actually been pretty nice.. I'll wait till it degrades a bit, and then go try a coti finishing.

 

[global_dev]

another shave, and it still feels OK. I had to fight the urge to go to the coti.
stropped on Kanayama 5260 40 linen/60 leather.