Merkur Finish Question

[DE Shaver]

I disagree. I think Merkur can work out the negative consequences for themselves, IF they really do have a quality problem that needs addressing.

As I posted earlier, to bring B&B into it, and point out these plain commercial facts to them, is only likely to be read as threats and intimidation - no matter how politely you word it.

And that doesn't predispose any company to progress with that complaint.

I think you underestimate a company's motivation to act in order to protect it's interests. A well composed and placed complaint can motivate a company to act where it would not otherwise do so. I didn't suggest you have to mention B&B outright but you can certainly indicate you'll post your concerns publicly and it will likely impact the perception of their product. Pointing out the consequences of action or inaction is simply putting into clear terms what the fallout is likely or potentially to be. If Merkur wants to infer such as a threat, then that is their problem. If they want to view this as an opportunity to protect or improve their customer relations, that's their prerogative too. The OP has nothing to lose because he already tried the soft and diplomatic approach and received a polite but resounding brush off.

Not that it needs to be said but businesses do want to know what their customer's think and will act accordingly, at least the ones that want to be successful in the long run. I work closely with a friend to develop telescope software and the company he works for closely monitors many astronomy forums to get the pulse of their product perception.

 

[outclass]

Interesting thread , really looking forward to see how it develops
The response the OP received from Merkur is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Mojo88]

I have a satin Vision set that I purchased and literally after a few weeks the finish started to degrade. I contacted Merkur and received the same type of responses as the original poster described. This has been a long term problem that seems to be consistent with all models and even affects the brushes and bowls.

When I described what was happening, I was told it was soap scum. I explained politely that that was not the case and indeed the finish was failing. I became frustrated with the answers and ask if Merkur had ever heard of NACE. They replied, "What is that?" I explained that NACE is National Association of Corrosion Engineers. I am a level 2 inspector and I think I know corrosion vs. soap scum. I offered to send the razor out for independent testing and that offer was refused, I then was told I used a harsh chemical to clean the razor.

After repeated attempts to get the issue resolved I decided to let it go and wait until the finish fails. At the point of complete failure I will contact them again and start the process over with photos taken over a time period. For a 300 dollar set I expected more.
As a friend of my says, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining"

 

[luvmysuper]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfdpcrOgUp4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[baggiez]

My two Merkurs (HD and Futur) have been fine. I wouldn't be happy if I was the OP though as the response from Merkur is laughable.

Just think - for the cost of flipping a couple of new razors to the guy to protect their good name this thread could be about Merkur's fine customer service.

And I wonder how much these places spend on advertising

 

[michiganlover]

And I wonder how much these places spend on advertising

I would guess near none. Outside of this forum, and perhaps stumbling upon a DE razor in a specialty store/ cutlery store, you would likely never ever hear of Merkur. They don't put forth big money to advertise on TV, and I don't think they do much in the way of print ads either.

 

[Radar O\'Reilly]

From what I've seen on the Merkurs I own only the head is pot metal. the barrel, knob and stem seem to be made from brass.
This makes sense as these are the only cast parts of the razor.
I've never owned a Futur or Vision so I have no knowledge of their construction.

There are no problems with the handles on the razors in question.

Au contraire. The photo's that have been posted clearly show that something is going on with some of Merkur's razors. It doesn't make sense that just B&B members are victims of poor plating.

Bringing the problem to the attention of other razor aficionados is exactly the thing to do. They can critically evaluate the poster's claim and give their own informed opinions based on their experience with numerous razor manufacturers.

And, the fact that B&B members seldom buy just one razor, that many own or are considering buying Merkur's, and that they are often verbal in their razor likes and dislikes makes them the exact customer that Merkur should be interested in hearing from.

This is the reason I own so many Merkurs. B&B members talked them up, and when they showed up on B/S/T, I decided to pull the trigger, as it were. I originally bought the Slant and Barberpole HD. I then bought another Barberpole HD for my Father and a 12c to try out open comb shaving. After that, IIRC, someone here on B&B contacted Merkur, and got the pieces to assemble the fist Barberpole Slant. I dealt with the plating issues and kept my eyes open for a Barberpole Slant and a regular HD, so that if I did send my razors back to Merkur, I would have back ups for the time they would be gone. Then I got this response, which makes me sad I bought the replacement razors. And I opened this thread BEFORE I first contacted Merkur, so that I could get some valuable insight. Also, In checking the old threads, I found a few from the 08-09 era with people complaining about finishes, so I hoped that this was an old problem that was since solved, and any repaired/replaced pieces would be of new manufacture, and not have any issue.

Interesting thread , really looking forward to see how it develops
The response the OP received from Merkur is absolutely ridiculous

Thank you. I think that is what upset me most. When I worked in a supermarket, we had a lady bring in the bones of a turkey she bought and wanted her money back, because she said the bird was bad. My manager hemmed and hawed, but finally gave her store credit, but "only this once". Why? Because losing her as a customer would cost us more than the $10 the bird cost us, and with store credit, she was spending the money at the store. I was willing to send the razors back. I don't want a "free" razor, I would just like it either repaired or a exact replacement. But telling me that my water corroded the razor, or that someone else must have used harsh chemicals and that's what damaged the razor is just wrong. I had a Crest Spinbrush break on me, and what did Crest do? They sent me 2 coupons for free products, each with, IIRC, $19.00 or so maximum value, and also sent me a SASE to return the razor that broke. That was above and beyond, and I bought a new brush for myself and gave the other coupon to a friend to try out a Spinbrush. Did they accuse me of brushing too hard? No. I'm guessing it was a common problem, and they wanted to make a customer happy, and sent me coupons to buy other Spinbrush products, to keep me with the brand and happy.

I have a satin Vision set that I purchased and literally after a few weeks the finish started to degrade. I contacted Merkur and received the same type of responses as the original poster described. This has been a long term problem that seems to be consistent with all models and even affects the brushes and bowls.

When I described what was happening, I was told it was soap scum. I explained politely that that was not the case and indeed the finish was failing. I became frustrated with the answers and ask if Merkur had ever heard of NACE. They replied, "What is that?" I explained that NACE is National Association of Corrosion Engineers. I am a level 2 inspector and I think I know corrosion vs. soap scum. I offered to send the razor out for independent testing and that offer was refused, I then was told I used a harsh chemical to clean the razor.

After repeated attempts to get the issue resolved I decided to let it go and wait until the finish fails. At the point of complete failure I will contact them again and start the process over with photos taken over a time period. For a 300 dollar set I expected more.
As a friend of my says, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining"

Again, it's things like this that make me angry. I am guessing you would have had NO problem sending your razor back to get a new one. I checked back and saw a bunch of threads about the finishes from 08-09 and also ones saying that Merkur was remaking the head molds, as the current ones were getting clogged and deposits, and making the tolerances wonky. IIRC, they had shipping delays because of this. So it seems they had some bad razors leave the factory, but that is not MY problem. I will do whatever I can to help solve it, but don't blame me for it.

My two Merkurs (HD and Futur) have been fine. I wouldn't be happy if I was the OP though as the response from Merkur is laughable.

Just think - for the cost of flipping a couple of new razors to the guy to protect their good name this thread could be about Merkur's fine customer service.

And I wonder how much these places spend on advertising

I agree, and I would sing from the roof tops if they did me good. I also think Merkur and Dovo don't spend that much on advertising besides trade magazines and word of mouth, like some companies do. I'm sure we can all think of a mechanic or other professional who does amazing work, but besides his store front and maybe an ad in the yellowpages, doesn't advertise because he does quality work, and he's so busy dealing with customers he gets through word of mouth. I travel 30 minutes to my mechanic because I used to live 2 minutes away from him, and he does a good job with my baby. Only ONCE did he mess up, and it wasn't his fault. It's the story I tell people when they ask me who I goto. The time Danny ordered my brakes, and they dropped off the parts at 4:55pm, and by the time he tried them on the car, and realized they were the wrong brakes, it was after 5 and the parts store was closed. What did he do? Apologized and offered to find me a ride home. I ended up getting my GF at the time to do it, but he still felt bad.

 

[Nils]

I received an answer from Mühle today concerning the material of their razor's heads:


unser Hobelkopf besteht aus einer Zinkdruckguss-Legierung und jedes Teil ist verchromt. Der Hobel liegt gut in der Hand.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ines Bretschneider

Their heads are made from chrome plated Zamak as well, which means that if you want to avoid the Zamak, you'll have to steer clear of Mühle and Edwin Jagger razors as well. Their plating might be better than that of current Merkurs though.

 

[Radar O\'Reilly]

I received an answer from Mühle today concerning the material of their razor's heads:


unser Hobelkopf besteht aus einer Zinkdruckguss-Legierung und jedes Teil ist verchromt. Der Hobel liegt gut in der Hand.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ines Bretschneider

Their heads are made from chrome plated Zamak as well, which means that if you want to avoid the Zamak, you'll have to steer clear of Mühle and Edwin Jagger razors as well. Their plating might be better than that of current Merkurs though.

So is the amount of time they plate a function of how well the plate it?

 

[DE Shaver]

I received an answer from Mühle today concerning the material of their razor's heads:


unser Hobelkopf besteht aus einer Zinkdruckguss-Legierung und jedes Teil ist verchromt. Der Hobel liegt gut in der Hand.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ines Bretschneider

Their heads are made from chrome plated Zamak as well, which means that if you want to avoid the Zamak, you'll have to steer clear of Mühle and Edwin Jagger razors as well. Their plating might be better than that of current Merkurs though.

This is unfortunate. Although ZAMAK has it's uses, I would prefer that razors be made of materials that can weather daily use with tap water and soap.

 

[Nils]

So is the amount of time they plate a function of how well the plate it?

Sorry, I can't tell you. Their mail said nothing about the plating process, just that the razors are plated and "well balanced". I was just guessing that the fact that so many users claim the Mühle quality to be superior may have something to do with better plating. But that's pure guesswork on my part.

 

[Nils]

This is unfortunate. Although ZAMAK has it's uses, I would prefer that razors be made of materials that can weather daily use with tap water and soap.

Personally I think that you'll be ok as long as the plating is. I admit to not being an expert on plating, but I'd guess that the Zamak only corrrodes if the plating is faulty. But I'm afraid coocatbob will correct me on this soon enough...

 

[DE Shaver]

I guess we will just have to wait and see whether Merkur gives a favorable response, an unfavorable response, or no response at all to the explicit statement. Pending a response or the lack of one, I will not buying any further Merkurs. I try as much as possible to spend my money on products made by companies who are proud of their products and who stand by them. And no, I'm not saying that you don't do the same.

I guess my concern stems from the fact that an imperfection (such as an accidental dint) may allow corrosion to occur more readily with pot metal than with brass or other alternative material. I don't want to have a small ding in my razor be the start of a corrosion point. To be fair, I've had no major issues with my Merkur razors and they have been working flawlessly for years. ZAMAK may serve it's purpose well enough.

 

[cooncatbob]

Personally I think that you'll be ok as long as the plating is. I admit to not being an expert on plating, but I'd guess that the Zamak only corrrodes if the plating is faulty. But I'm afraid coocatbob will correct me on this soon enough...

Zamak requires triple plating, the base metal need to be sealed with copper plating and the copper has to plated with nickel before it can be chrome or gold plated.
The advantage of Zamak is it has a very low melting temperature (718-729F).
Brass is 1660-1710F.
Bronze 1562F
Stainless is 2552F and Titanium is 3263F
Titanium also has to be cast in a vacuum, so don't expect any cast Titanium heads any time soon.

 

[Radar O\'Reilly]

Zamak requires triple plating, the base metal need to be sealed with copper plating and the copper has to plated with nickel before it can be chrome or gold plated.
The advantage of Zamak is it has a very low melting temperature (718-729F).

Darn, that means I can't shave in my furnace with my Merkurs. I'll really have to stick to my Gillettes.

 

[Walt Whitman]

My two Merkurs (HD and Futur) have been fine. I wouldn't be happy if I was the OP though as the response from Merkur is laughable.

Just think - for the cost of flipping a couple of new razors to the guy to protect their good name this thread could be about Merkur's fine customer service.

And I wonder how much these places spend on advertising

It simply amazes me how companies could protect their good name, knowing how fragile it is, by extolling to their employees the virtues of excellent customer service and the lifetime stream of income that derives from that effort, but unwittingly leave that internal education undone and allow decades of quality and craftsmanship to be obliterated in a heartbeat by not taking care of one good customer in their niche market.

How many potential sales will Merkur never see because of the poor customer service to one customer with access to the internet and the premier wetshaving forum?

Epic niche marketing fail!

 

[DE Shaver]

It simply amazes me how companies could protect their good name, knowing how fragile it is, by extolling to their employees the virtues of excellent customer service and the lifetime stream of income that derives from that effort, but unwittingly leave that internal education undone and allow decades of quality and craftsmanship to be obliterated in a heartbeat by not taking care of one good customer in their niche market.

How many potential sales will Merkur never see because of the poor customer service to one customer with access to the internet and the premier wetshaving forum?

Epic niche marketing fail!

I'm actually not amazed because the people that make up the company are only human. At times, these people may feel empowered and at other times, they may feel the corporate culture or mandate does not allow or facilitate "good" customer service. Furthermore, they make mistakes or just don't care enough and provide poor service.

Companies are entities that are made up of diverse individuals, each with their own viewpoint and agenda. Decisions that may seem unfathomable to us evolve and arise out of complex human dynamics. Ultimately, a business model arises based on the expertise and experience of the company personnel. I really doubt a conversation like the following happened at Merkur...

"I think we should avoid taking care of customers, especially this last one that's complaining about corrosion. There can't be any fall-out from that issue and we don't really care about our customers or our products."

What probably happened at Merkur was...

"Margins are tight and we need to minimize costs. We cannot simply send out new razors every time someone expresses an issue with one of them. It's takes time, effort and resources that outweigh the lost business we expect. We'd like to be more generous but our business model does not allow for it."

Whether Merkur has made the right call is up to debate. Some companies can't afford to provide top tier customer service while others can. It can be debated that providing good service brings on more sales but it can also be argued that overly generous customer service invites abuse. The goal is to find the right balance that meshes with the company business model.

I'm not excusing Merkur as I agree 100% with the OP regarding his issue. However, I can see why some companies aren't providing perfect customer service. Personally, I feel that good customer service always pays in the end but that philosophy may not be ideal in every business model. Regardless, it behooves us to ensure we do not deal with companies that have a business model that is not compatible with our desires.

 

[Chester]

How many potential sales will Merkur never see because of the poor customer service to one customer with access to the internet and the premier wetshaving forum?

I'll not buy one. I was on the fence until I saw the pictures, but my mind's made up, now.
-- Chet

 

[cooncatbob]

Anne Rothstein has many times in the past provided replacement parts no questions asked and top notch customer services.
One can only surmise that she's received order from up above not to provide replacement parts to everyone with a complaint.
Dovo isn't a large company, having less then 100 employees and must be hurting in these tough economic times, but it's sad to see the last German razor producer not live up to the quality of the Solingen name.

 

[talibeard]

I received an answer from Mühle today concerning the material of their razor's heads:


unser Hobelkopf besteht aus einer Zinkdruckguss-Legierung und jedes Teil ist verchromt. Der Hobel liegt gut in der Hand.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ines Bretschneider

Their heads are made from chrome plated Zamak as well, which means that if you want to avoid the Zamak, you'll have to steer clear of Mühle and Edwin Jagger razors as well. Their plating might be better than that of current Merkurs though.

I certainly would prefer brass or bronze as a base material but Zamak will be good too as long as the plating is. My main problem with Merkur is not the materials used but their defence claiming Merkurs cannot stand water.....

Besides that the plating on my Mühles is of a significantly higher quality than the ones on my Merkurs.