Llyn Idwal/Grecian/Charnley—A Outstanding Finisher-And Looks As Good As It Hones

[cotedupy]

That is a pretty stone, but not sure it is a Charnley Forest. I would lean more toward Llyn Idwal or even Glanrafon. I have a similar stone not sure of what exactly it is either, but I don't think it is CF as it seems different in comparison. It is the one on the right in my pic.
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Ah yeah... yours on the right there does look really quite similar!

The reason I think mine is a CF is that I bought it from someone who was selling her father's collection of 50 odd stones and an awful lot of them were Charnleys. Others were a mixed bag of naturals and synths, but I don't think I spotted any Idwals in there. Mine does have some areas with a bit of reddish blush coming through on the surface and one of the sides, and I've seen pics of a few others that look like this. Though I'm very new to these, so could be wrong!

My one above is probably slightly finer than my other two CFs, and certainly finer than my (also two) Idwals. I don't know much about Glenrafon at all, apart from seeing them mentioned once or twice, so off to read up now...

Also - that was one of a number of stones I've bought over the last year or so from people in the UK, quite a few of which I'm not sure about exact ID-ing, so if you or anybody else have any thoughts they'd be much appreciated: Natural Stone Haul, Knowns and Unknowns - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/natural-stone-haul-knowns-and-unknowns.616369/

 

[cotedupy]

Following @rideon66 's point above I just went back and lapped that stone a little more, and it's clearly not novaculite. (I've been cleaning and lapping a lot of things in the last few days, and not necessarily always paying attention!)

So possibly then Glanrafon...

 

[Bowmaker]

My Glanrafon has a slight pebbly feedback much like some coticules but harder with no buttery smooth to it. It's a very nice shave but not ultra sharp.

 

[timwcic]

For razors do you prefer them with oil or water (or other)...?

On these I have tried water and oil. Oil have me the best results and the keenest edge

 

[ables]

Here is my The Imported English Hone ive had for a while. Sadly it does not label the type of stone but I consider it a Grecian / Llyn Idwal. Any other opinions?

Ive never been able to find further info on it, doesnt seem so common. I have it all prepped perfectly and have used it with oil as the label indicates many times. It is fairly hard and not very abrasive, it doesnt slurry very easily and using water was not as pleasant as oil. With patience and careful honing it makes a good safe crisp edge, very close to my vermont green slate. I like the little dots and green blobs within it.

 

[cotedupy]

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Here is my The Imported English Hone ive had for a while. Sadly it does not label the type of stone but I consider it a Grecian / Llyn Idwal. Any other opinions?

Ive never been able to find further info on it, doesnt seem so common. I have it all prepped perfectly and have used it with oil as the label indicates many times. It is fairly hard and not very abrasive, it doesnt slurry very easily and using water was not as pleasant as oil. With patience and careful honing it makes a good safe crisp edge, very close to my vermont green slate. I like the little dots and green blobs within it.

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Very interesting! It looks most like the pictures of 'Vosgienne' stones that people have, doesn't it...?

There were quite a few quarries around Llyn Idwal as I understand, producing various different types of stone. But the ones that are most commonly referred to as 'Idwal' are a kind of green-grey novaculite I think.

The other thing obviously, is that Llyn Idwal isn't in England... it's in Wales. That could of course just be a misnomer on the label, but I doubt it. To call something 'English' rather than 'British' is a bit more specific, and I wouldn't have thought they'd name it that if it was, in fact, Welsh.

 

[timwcic]

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Here is my The Imported English Hone ive had for a while. Sadly it does not label the type of stone but I consider it a Grecian / Llyn Idwal. Any other opinions?

Ive never been able to find further info on it, doesnt seem so common. I have it all prepped perfectly and have used it with oil as the label indicates many times. It is fairly hard and not very abrasive, it doesnt slurry very easily and using water was not as pleasant as oil. With patience and careful honing it makes a good safe crisp edge, very close to my vermont green slate. I like the little dots and green blobs within it.

View attachment 1365672

Very interesting! It looks most like the pictures of 'Vosgienne' stones that people have, doesn't it...?

There were quite a few quarries around Llyn Idwal as I understand, producing various different types of stone. But the ones that are most commonly referred to as 'Idwal' are a kind of green-grey novaculite I think.

The other thing obviously, is that Llyn Idwal is not in England... it's in Wales. That could of course just be a misnomer on the label, but I doubt it. To call something 'English' rather than 'British' is a bit more specific, and I wouldn't have thought they'd name it that if it was, in fact, Welsh.

Interesting looking hone. I have no idea but I agree it does look French

 

[Alum of Potash]

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Here is my The Imported English Hone ive had for a while. Sadly it does not label the type of stone but I consider it a Grecian / Llyn Idwal. Any other opinions?

Ive never been able to find further info on it, doesnt seem so common. I have it all prepped perfectly and have used it with oil as the label indicates many times. It is fairly hard and not very abrasive, it doesnt slurry very easily and using water was not as pleasant as oil. With patience and careful honing it makes a good safe crisp edge, very close to my vermont green slate. I like the little dots and green blobs within it.

View attachment 1365672

Yes, it does look like the alleged "vosgienne," which still is a bit of a unicorn. Also looks like vintage Vermont purple slate. I would like to say it's a Welsh purple slate and that the American importer didn't know any better in labelling it an "English" hone, but I wasn't there at the time. Looks nice though. See how it compares to your Vermont green slate. For a finer oil than mineral oil on slates like these, I like to use Singer sewing machine oil.

 

[ables]

Thats funny, I never considered Vosgienne as I mentally picture larger pale green blobs on a less busy stone. It does strike a resemblance to some i see now. The green blobs are kind of hard to see compared to the speckles that are more predominant. I also read "English Hone" then looked through all the greater UK stones and settled on grecian type. I never thought about if someone back then mis represented or was confused. Which easily could of happened with how much time we spend trying to identify stones.

It feels a bit different than my vermont green slate but that could just be the narrow width changing my perception. I only used it with water and slurry a few times but was unimpressed, raspy and hard to slurry. The slurry seemed to dull the edge also. With oil it feels better and makes a nicer polish. My vermont slate works fine with water and slurries OK. I guess it is more of a mystery than I thought!

 

[ables]

Thats funny, I never considered Vosgienne as I mentally picture larger pale green blobs on a less busy stone. It does strike a resemblance to some i see now. The green blobs are kind of hard to see compared to the speckles that are more predominant. I also read "English Hone" then looked through all the greater UK stones and settled on grecian type. I never thought about if someone back then mis represented or was confused. Which easily could of happened with how much time we spend trying to identify stones.

It feels a bit different than my vermont green slate but that could just be the narrow width changing my perception. I only used it with water and slurry a few times but was unimpressed, raspy and hard to slurry. The slurry seemed to dull the edge also. With oil it feels better and makes a nicer polish. My vermont slate works fine with water and slurries OK. I guess it is more of a mystery than I thought!

Ok I think you guys might have really got me down the right track. It is very similar looking to the @kcb5150 stone he has posted many times here and https://flic.kr/p/mPhrAu
It even behaves similar to these descriptions: I had to lap out just some tiny surface scratches when I got it and was surprised by how long it took. The slurry was also "dirty" looking to me and doesnt show up easily. Mine's not nearly as pretty in person as some of the others I see and might feel slower due to my polish plus being skinny. But it does make a nice edge if careful when honing.

Thanks for the opinions guys. Vosgienne wasnt even on my radar as I was completely distracted by the English part! I wonder why Mr. Dibble decided on this name. I often see small paddles like this but not the same, i dont think it was very popular or well sold.

 

[Legion]

Just lapped my new Idwal up to 600 grit. I’m glad I bought some SIC powder to do the flattening, that is a hard stone.

 

[cotedupy]

Just lapped my new Idwal up to 600 grit. I’m glad I bought some SIC powder to do the flattening, that is a hard stone.

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Yeah they're a b*tch! In terms of the more common novaculites I'd say second only to hard arks (from my handful anyway).

I tried using a few on a razor last night; it certainly can be done, and doubtless you'd be better at it than me, I got best results after burnishing the surface. And I imagine that once conditioned and bedded in, the right Idwal is going to be fairly similar in effect to a translucent / black ark.

Though they don't burnish as easily as arks, so it feels a bit like clipping an angel's wings. Stones that cut well on a very fine level, like Idwals, are less common than stones that can finish razors.

Not coincidentally my favourite of the ones I found recently is the coarsest, largest, and the only one that I don't think could ever really be turned into a razor finisher. And conveniently the one that's hardest and finest is also too small for use on knives, but is a lovely razor size. Neither of which I assume were accidents, and that stones were cut according to their grit and final purpose, the smaller one has even been shaped on the underside to fit snugly in the palm around the ball of your thumb.

[It's a bit dreary in London atm, and I couldn't quite the colour right when trying to take a picture, it's somewhere between these two - more green than the top, but more blue/grey than the bottom]

 

[Legion]

Yeah they're a b*tch! In terms of the more common novaculites I'd say second only to hard arks (from my handful anyway).

I tried using a few on a razor last night; it certainly can be done, and doubtless you'd be better at it than me, I got best results after burnishing the surface. And I imagine that once conditioned and bedded in, the right Idwal is going to be fairly similar in effect to a translucent / black ark.

Though they don't burnish as easily as arks, so it feels a bit like clipping an angel's wings. Stones that cut well on a very fine level, like Idwals, are less common than stones that can finish razors.

Not coincidentally my favourite of the ones I found recently is the coarsest, largest, and the only one that I don't think could ever really be turned into a razor finisher. And conveniently the one that's hardest and finest is also too small for use on knives, but is a lovely razor size. Neither of which I assume were accidents, and that stones were cut according to their grit and final purpose, the smaller one has even been shaped on the underside to fit snugly in the palm around the ball of your thumb.

[It's a bit dreary in London atm, and I couldn't quite the colour right when trying to take a picture, it's somewhere between these two - more green than the top, but more blue/grey than the bottom]

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So, I only have the one vintage trans ark I did the other day to compare, and that was flatter when I got it, but I’d say comparable PITA. But the LI was worse because of the size and convexity.

I’ve touched up my go to razor with oil, 40 laps. I can’t do a hht, because I cropped my hair for summer, so we shall see tomorrow with a shave.

 

[Empire straights]

So, I only have the one vintage trans ark I did the other day to compare, and that was flatter when I got it, but I’d say comparable PITA. But the LI was worse because of the size and convexity.

I’ve touched up my go to razor with oil, 40 laps. I can’t do a hht, because I cropped my hair for summer, so we shall see tomorrow with a shave.

To me the edges are sharp like an ark but smooth like a really hard, fine coticule(les latneuses) or fine slate. a true pleasure.

 

[Legion]

To me the edges are sharp like an ark but smooth like a really hard, fine coticule(les latneuses) or fine slate. a true pleasure.

Just tested it, and I am very pleased. In feel, probably most like my vintage trans ark. But being a nice big bench stone its very easy to use. Will probably be a winner for finishing a knife after a Washita, soft Ark or India as well.

And unlike my bigger coticule, I don't need to worry so much about a knife dishing it.

 

[cotedupy]

Just tested it, and I am very pleased. In feel, probably most like my vintage trans ark. But being a nice big bench stone its very easy to use. Will probably be a winner for finishing a knife after a Washita, soft Ark or India as well.

And unlike my bigger coticule, I don't need to worry so much about a knife dishing it.

Ah, how big's that one? Might be a bit larger than the one of mine I thought looked fairly similar.

Good to hear it's working nicely, as you say - they seem the kind of stone that you could very easily have for both because of the hardness. My big one at the top of the pictures was unbelievably dished on the other side - probably 2cm. Have taken it down a bit now, but god knows how old it is/what it was being used for before.

 

[Legion]

Ah, how big's that one? Might be a bit larger than the one of mine I thought looked fairly similar.

Good to hear it's working nicely, as you say - they seem the kind of stone that you could very easily have for both because of the hardness. My big one at the top of the pictures was unbelievably dished on the other side - probably 2cm. Have taken it down a bit now, but god knows how old it is/what it was being used for before.

it is 205x45x37mm. I'm not going to translate, since we shouldn't be enabling the metrically challenged.

 

[ErieSurfer]

it is 205x45x37mm. I'm not going to translate, since we shouldn't be enabling the metrically challenged.

Ouch! I resemble that remark...

 

[cotedupy]

it is 205x45x37mm. I'm not going to translate, since we shouldn't be enabling the metrically challenged.

Big old chunk... nice!

Similar surface size to the second down of my ones, but yours is much thicker.

 

[ErieSurfer]

I was sure there would be more laughter from my wisecrack earlier (hat tip @ables ), so here's my inspiration:

I'm going to have work on my delivery...