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The missing variable that Gillette knew, but most modern razor manufacturers are oblivious

I am on a quest to get a close, no irritation shave. I prioritize no irritation over closeness, as skin health is more important than a BBS. although every once in a while I will go for a BBS at the risk of some irritation.

Traditional thinking states that there is an inverted linear line between a razor that shaves closely, and a razor that is gentle on the skin. Some modern razors are challenging this notion, such as the Henson, as one can get a fairly close shave without irritation. I see some experienced shavers get there great, no irritation shaves, from a more aggressive razor. Others get amazing irritation free shaves from a straight razor.

This brings up the question: why do some of these razors break the traditional inverted relationship between gentle and closeness? When I was originally looking at the razors that break the traditional thinking and give a close, no irritation shave, I thought it had something to do with the bending of the blade. I recently got the Goodfellas’ Smile Bayonetta razor, which gave me a remarkably good nearly no irritation shave. After examining the Bayonetta razor, I realized that it’s not the bending of the blade that makes the razor so effective yet mild, it’s the angle that the blade hits the face that makes the razor so effective and mild. It’s the locked angle that makes this razor so beginner friendly. In theory, one should be able to get this super effective mild shave from some aggressive razors that allow a really shallow angle as well, except in the aggressive razor it takes more skill as the blade is more open.

To think about this, one has to realize that there are two main variables which are considered when looking at a razor’s aggressiveness. The two variables are blade gap and blade exposure. yet potentially the most important variable seems to be missed, the angle at which the blade contacts the face.

People talk a lot about the angle required to hold the razor for hitting a sweet spot. However, most people overlook the most important angle: the angle of blade-to-face contact. Coming from simple vectors, one learns that the further a force deviates from a straight line, the more diverted the energy gets. Since most razor blades appear to have a 10° bevel, I would reason that the optimal angle where the blade can cut through the hair easily would be when the blade hits the face had a 10° angle. If the blade hits the face at a 10° angle, then one can slide the bevel along the skin and the blade’s point will cleanly cut through the hair without touching the skin. Cutting such a steep angle in theory can give one the closest no irritation shave, yet this is quite dangerous as a simple slipup can easily penetrate the skin.

Many modern razors force and optimal angle where the blade contexts the face at an angle closer to 45°. The most enjoyed razors like the vintage Gillette’s, Gems, the Henson, the Bayonetta, and many others all seem to have a blade to face contact angle of 20° or under. I have not done exact measurements, yet based on crude analysis, I’m seeing most modern razors ranging from mid 30s to upper 40° range. Many times, it is just the cap which is forcing the wrong angle. I recently sanded down one of my Chinese razors cap, which had a thick stainless cap, and received a much milder shave. I was a little too cautious on that shave and did not get as close as I would like.

I’m wondering what other people have to think about this blade face angle variable. Is this is the third most important variable that has been missing? Is the lack of appreciating blade face angle the reason many of the Chinese copies were a hit or miss as many times the cap changed the blade angle? Maybe some people can post beautiful pictures showing the blade face angle of different razors. Hopefully, more razor manufacturers will start taking the blade face angle into consideration when making their razor. At least there are more optimally angled razors being produced today that only cut in the optimal angle, allowing a beginner to get a beautiful close irritation free shave.
 

Iridian

Cool and slimy
Yes, the angle is very important. There are many rather locked in head designs, you mentioned already Henson, while some mild razors only shave at their sweet spot angle. I actually like aggressive razors because they give me more leeway with the shaving angle.

I often go a bit more steep than most, so I appreciate that. Steep gives usually a harsher and more scraping type of shave, it can be very effective and close, though.
 
I also put skin maintenance, hygiene, skin health and face first. At 67 as a diabetic with aging sensitive skin, I have to.
I am very lucky that my wife was a cosmetologist (first), then a dermatologist a year back. So I am thankful in so many ways.
Yes, I have quite a lot of tools in my den(s). I just keep what works for me and also those that bring enjoyment.
I like many others here, love to have a variety of options to select.
Now even my R41 gives me an irritation free, enjoyable shave.
Sure, it does take some time to find that full formula/ingredients/methodology/process & tools that "works best for you".
It is totally worth it!

Note: I started with SR's fifty years and learned (from my dad) how to wet shave.
Now I just pick the best tool for the specific job and I just naturally adapt, shave smart, enjoy the shave and take care of the face in the process.


I go back to theses>
"The more we value things, the less we value ourselves." Bruce Lee
"The successful warrior is the average man, with laser like focus." BL
"A good swordsman is more important than a good sword" Amit Kalantri
"If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done." BL

BFX
 
I’m sorry to say this but the opening post from thread you linked makes no sense. Correct me if I’m wrong, but from my understanding, if all variables are equal except for the guard span, a larger guard span will decrease blade exposures, ultimately culminating in a negative blade exposure. A larger guard span may also force a shallow angle (riding the cap) which may be good. If Henson made a smaller guard, that equaled a milder razor, the only way I can imagine this being possible is by increasing the blade angle. The increased blade angle would effectively decrease blade exposure and effectively make shaving at 45° angle into a shallow angle shave.

At the end of that thread, the shaving plane gets mentioned. But as your linked thread is from 2021, reviving that thread is probably a bad idea.
 
Yes, the angle is very important. There are many rather locked in head designs, you mentioned already Henson, while some mild razors only shave at their sweet spot angle. I actually like aggressive razors because they give me more leeway with the shaving angle.

I often go a bit more steep than most, so I appreciate that. Steep gives usually a harsher and more scraping type of shave, it can be very effective and close, though.
So we agree that the effective shaving planes a razor has is an extremely important aspect to know. Some people may prefer face scraping over smooth cutting but whom I to say what’s right. If one knows effective shaving plans a razor has, they could pick a razor that fits their wants.

The most important specs of a razor, from my point of view in chronological order, is

1) “blade exposure” - for a razor that has a large shaving plane, the blade exposure will change at different angles so it may be good to know the blade exposures at the different angles

2) “Effective shaving plans” - (where shaving planes equals blade-face angle)

3) “blade gap” - is also quite important.

There are other more minor details which effectively get calculated in the first three specs, such as guard span, blade angle, and some others.
 
Take a look at the YUMA razor which does bend the blade. -It gives a remarkable close shave and is reasonably more forgiving compared to other reputed aggressive razors IMHO
I’m sure the YUMA is a great razor as it gets a lot of love, yet I am morally against zamak razors, if only the YUMA made an aluminum, brass, stainless, or titanium razor.

Now even my R41 gives me an irritation free, enjoyable shave.
Now you’re just bragging. Just looking at the R41 makes me want to shiver. An aggressive scraper is the last thing I would ever want. Yet the Fatip Lo Storto OC may be an interesting choice.
 
I'm sure angle matters, but there's also probably a big interaction between angle, gap, and exposure. For me I've noticed the biggest decrease in irritation and problems when decreasing exposure.

A lot of this probably depends on the user too, which leads to all the different razor specification permutations, and is partially why people search unendingly for their favorite razor. The perfect combination of angle, exposure, gap, weight, and so forth isn't quite there — you get all but one of the things, and hope the next one has all of them (some people probably do find that perfect combination and still others just like trying out razors).

I guess what I'm thinking is that razor performance is hard to reduce to any single variable, and different people are going to be wanting different things. I've never come across a razor whose angle is an issue for me, but I have come across razors whose exposure is too much. I'm sure for someone else their bugaboo is different.
 
Man Smoking GIF by DevX Art
 
I'm sure angle matters, but there's also probably a big interaction between angle, gap, and exposure. For me I've noticed the biggest decrease in irritation and problems when decreasing exposure.

A lot of this probably depends on the user too, which leads to all the different razor specification permutations, and is partially why people search unendingly for their favorite razor. The perfect combination of angle, exposure, gap, weight, and so forth isn't quite there — you get all but one of the things, and hope the next one has all of them (some people probably do find that perfect combination and still others just like trying out razors).

I guess what I'm thinking is that razor performance is hard to reduce to any single variable, and different people are going to be wanting different things. I've never come across a razor whose angle is an issue for me, but I have come across razors whose exposure is too much. I'm sure for someone else their bugaboo is different.
I am still a beginner and I am sure with time I will get a great shave with every razor. the first thing I did to increase my shaving comfort was to decrease the blade exposure. After receiving some great shaves with a Chinese copy of the Game changer, I thought I found my perfect razor. However, using this “Livben” brand Chinese stainless steel razor, I noticed skin irritation after a few days. This led me to continue my search on a Henson type razor. the Hansen charges $70 for an aluminum razor and I cannot justify the $70 price.

Anyway, all the factors make a difference, with blade exposure being the most significant factor. Yet the blade exposure changes based on the angle and a proficient shaver can get great shaves with a completely exposed blade. For now, when I try to shave with the most optimal shaving angle, I end up cutting myself so I have to stay with the more beginner friendly razors, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t an optimal way of shaving. Just because many people get close shaves by scraping themselves, myself included, doesn’t mean that scrapping is the best way. I’m still more in a theoretical ground because I do not have the skill yet to use a truly masterful razor that can give the gentlest closest shave, but when I do a straight razor will probably be king.
 
@abies Let’s put it another way, there’s a million ways to reach 100, now let’s pretend 100 is the perfect shave. So if one is scraping themselves, they can decrease blade exposure and increase skin buffers through their lathers, culminating in a remarkably close, maybe even irritation free shave. Yet to me, this is like a kid learning to walk with crutches. The kid may learn how to walk quicker, but the crutches will end up slowing the kid down. I am still in the learning stage and hopefully my understandings will help other beginners and maybe even some manufacturers. I am writing these as I am learning, as later shaving is just going to be something I do and I am going to have no more interest in writing about it.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I've been dong this wet shaving thing for a couple years, but I have confirmed one thing. I know nothing about razor design.... I'm thankful there are quite a few great razor design engineers out there.... We have so many great choices these days.... no matter what needs we have. It did take me a while to determine what I needed and a bit longer to find what I enjoyed... It's been a fun journey.
 
Well I think Mr. Gillette when he started building his First Razor made a product that maybe 80% of his target market was able to use with less effort then a Straight Razor.

His invention worked, and Straight Razor got retired.

Plus Gillette sold Blade for his Safety Razors a win, win situation.

Plus the New Invention was easier to use.

The only negative was maybe the New Safety Razor did not as great a Shave as the Straight razor, but the convince factor made Gillette a wealthy man.

This am I Shaved with a Pre War Fat Handle Tech, and Modern Blade.

Got what I consider to be a great Shave. From a Razor older then me.

Today Modern Razor Makers are all trying to make a BETTER SAFETY RAZOR. Think they using One of Gillette Designs for inspiration.

Sort of like making a better, more efficient 🐭 Trap.


JMHO
 
Well I think Mr. Gillette when he started building his First Razor made a product that maybe 80% of his target market was able to use with less effort then a Straight Razor.

His invention worked, and Straight Razor got retired.

Plus Gillette sold Blade for his Safety Razors a win, win situation.

Plus the New Invention was easier to use.

The only negative was maybe the New Safety Razor did not as great a Shave as the Straight razor, but the convince factor made Gillette a wealthy man.

This am I Shaved with a Pre War Fat Handle Tech, and Modern Blade.

Got what I consider to be a great Shave. From a Razor older then me.

Today Modern Razor Makers are all trying to make a BETTER SAFETY RAZOR. Think they using One of Gillette Designs for inspiration.

Sort of like making a better, more efficient 🐭 Trap.


JMHO
This morning I had a great shave with my 1961 flare tip. The 61s still have the 50s flair tips cap, as Gillette changed the razor’s head, I believe in 63 or 64. Riding the cap felt so good. I put the cap against my face and tilted the razor until I felt the blade. From there, I either backed off a bit and push the cap down harder against my skin, or shaved from that angle. Somehow feeling the smooth cap gliding against my skin felt so nice. The smooth cap feeling is so much nicer than the scraping blade feeling, and the hair just disappeared, although I felt some catching. The blade I used is my now 10 times used Dorco ST301, and I got wonderfully close, nearly irritation free shave. I guess my Stanford sharpener is doing something because this Dorco is still super smooth and sharp.

After I completed the shave, my undiluted apple cider vinegar gave my skin almost no burn. Yes, I use apple cider vinegar as an aftershave as apple cider vinegar is so much better for the skin than alcohol. Apples vinegar also works remarkably well as part of the pre-wash, as apple cider vinegar can soften hair like nothing else. I did not get a perfect BBS, but I have never gotten a perfect BBS, and I attribute the non-BBS status to my beginner status. Each week my shaves get closer and the irritation is almost nonexistent at this point. This shave was really close, and I got a BBS all over except my chin and neck area.

This vintage Gillette shave was very comparable to the Goodfellas’ Smile Bayonetta shave. Both razors have remarkably good clamping and allow really shallow, effective shaving planes. I feel like the Bayonetta is more idiot proof, while the Gillette flair tip glided along my skin smoothly and softly. The Bayonetta had a little drag and felt to catch on the skin sometimes. Overall, they’re both great razors, so I just bought another 3 fancy vintage Gillettes.
 
LOL. What is this all about?
You either want extreme comfort or you want an extremely close shave. Everything inbetween is some kind of a compromise.

In case you have very sensitive skin (like me) and barbwire, It takes decades to get there. Gillette's concept changed drastically after WWII. They went from aggressive razors that provide a very clise shave to very mild razors. Go and find an Old Type that is mild...
 
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