I just spoke to the maker of my stubtail razor I ordered a few days ago. He advise me that razors is flat grind that in essence is a full wedge. 40 plus years of straight razor shaving and honing, I've never owned a full wedge before so this brings different challenge. Besides me using a leather/cloth crox strop or paddle strop. I thinking of using tape to hone on my Japanese Natural Stones. Depending on the angle of grind, I may need to use two layers of tape. Anyone have experience with full wedge and honing them?
Honing my first flat grind razor. "Full Wedge"
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A wedge without a smile using tape shouldn't be too bad I think, if it's in good shape.
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It's a new blade. Carbon steel and heated 3 times. I have in mind what to do but there's wisdom in numbers. J
Cool looking razor! I hope it has some jimping cause I know myself and would put my thumb in the wrong spot and lay it open.
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Thank you. I have two other razors from the late 1700's Stubtail Sheffield razors that are very similar in design. You have to handle them slightly different than today's typical tang designs, but it works all the same. I'll post some pics after hone and shave with razor.
Nice! and yeah I've seen a few very old ones that look very similar and I'm sure a person would learn to be careful. Sounds like you've got a good deal of experience on handling this style.
Did you ask the maker if he/she recommends using tape?
I normally use one layer of 3M Scotch Super 88 for old Sheffield near wedges. Most of my old Sheffields (without tape) have a bevel angle less than 17 degrees. Not sure why? Wear? Who knows. All I know is that one layer of tape works nicely. Two layers of tape feels mushy. If I have trouble forming a strong apex, I just keep honing. These are old razors that have been through a lot.
I would measure the bevel angle and ask the maker.
I would love to see a nose shot of the razor to see the grind.
I normally use one layer of 3M Scotch Super 88 for old Sheffield near wedges. Most of my old Sheffields (without tape) have a bevel angle less than 17 degrees. Not sure why? Wear? Who knows. All I know is that one layer of tape works nicely. Two layers of tape feels mushy. If I have trouble forming a strong apex, I just keep honing. These are old razors that have been through a lot.
I would measure the bevel angle and ask the maker.
I would love to see a nose shot of the razor to see the grind.
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Thats a great question. I did ask the maker and he suggested that back the in the 18th century, most would use a leather board strop with a rouge compound. With the blade laid flat using x strokes. This a new concept to me but to an old way of honing an edge. I have 2 quarter grind razors I use tape and hone as normal. I figured the same, but the maker advises, that's not how it was done on these flat grinds back in the earlier days. It's counterintuitive to me but it makes sense. I may try that first, but I've never honed a razor that way. I guess it couldn't hurt.
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A perfect wedge (triangle) has no spine and you need to remove steel from the entire surface of both faces to form an apex. A layer of tape helps to create a spine.
A near wedge has a spine, but many old near wedges have wear.
Again, I would measure the bevel angle without tape to understand where you are starting from. I would be hesitant to hone my near wedges without tape for fear that before long there would be no spine and I would need to spend hours and hours removing steel from the entire surface of both faces. Ugh!
A near wedge has a spine, but many old near wedges have wear.
Again, I would measure the bevel angle without tape to understand where you are starting from. I would be hesitant to hone my near wedges without tape for fear that before long there would be no spine and I would need to spend hours and hours removing steel from the entire surface of both faces. Ugh!
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Yeah I see your point and I appreciate the advise. I have and Thiers Issard box paddle strop that I use for travel. One side has a suede leather side to put TI strop paste and smooth red leather side to comfort the edge. Believe it or not green chromium oxide will cut very quick on flat metal surface if there is enough applied to the strop. Even on flat face on blade. I use to clean and hone my Japanese knives that way to get finest edge after a Jnat for most of the mid range work. I just never thought of honing a razor that way.
Good advice.
Being a Coticule user the bevel angle of a razor is very important to me, too high and a Coticule edge won't shave well, in that case you need something sharper.
I always measure first and then decide to hone it or not. There is indeed a very particular range of bevel angles that work and more importantly those that don't work with a Coticule, ime.
I was once told the edge and the spine of a razor aren't of the same hardness, with the spine being thicker during the heat treating and hardening, etc. it is believed the spines tend to be softer and quicker wearing than the edge of a razor.
A lot of the old razors had 17 degrees bevels, which really hits the sweet-spot imho.
Bevel angle tends to gets overlooked. I've honed many razors and mostly finish on Coticules.
Some shaved miraculously well, while others were really bad. My honing was the same.
My bad ones had angles around 20 degrees, way too high for a Coticule edge.
In fact, I measured ALL my bad shaving razors and they all had way too high bevel angles for Cotis.
All my best shavers were closely around 17°.
This is all related to Coticule honing, so I can't speak for other stones.
Sharper edges like synths, jnats, eschers probably will behave differently. However the bevel angle remains an important factor for a good shaving edge.
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The one really good thing about this forum, it seems history repeats itself. I did search and was surprised to see this topic come up a few times. Thank you all in response to my post and question. I fill you all in when I work on the razor on Monday. Have a great rest to your weekend!
Have honed many full wedges.
The one thing that is sort of important, when using tape on a wedge, is to get the tape on the blade evenly. What you don't want is one side closer to the edge than the other. If it's only a teensy weensy bit off, not biggie, really. But if the difference is large enough it can have significant impact on the geometry; and one side of the bevel will have a different angle.
Dovo used to recommend using loom strops and paste compounds to sharpen them.
The one thing that is sort of important, when using tape on a wedge, is to get the tape on the blade evenly. What you don't want is one side closer to the edge than the other. If it's only a teensy weensy bit off, not biggie, really. But if the difference is large enough it can have significant impact on the geometry; and one side of the bevel will have a different angle.
Dovo used to recommend using loom strops and paste compounds to sharpen them.
You can also use a slightly concave/dished hone, followed by a pasted strop.
If you use tape the alignment is important. You will also probably need to change tape a few times. You then need to be consistent when you apply tape.
If you use tape the alignment is important. You will also probably need to change tape a few times. You then need to be consistent when you apply tape.
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