First Time Straight Razor Shave today

[TheBeast]

Nasty crack and a chip here seems like (left). Your face will not thank you for using that. The tip could use a little more rolling. Tricky to get right, but just with practicing and looking at it, you can achieve a perfectly even scratch patter all the way. You just have to make sure to lock in that stroke once you find it.

Kind of looks like uneven wear, if that's not just light in the picture playing tricks. Roll the edge around in some light and try to even it out if it's still visible. You can mark the spine and bevel with a sharpie, do one pass on the stone and see if you are removing it all the way. It can tell you a lot.

Reference:

Red circle - tip not getting contact with the stone. Solution - rolling into the tip more.
Green line - pretty even wear on the rest of the edge.
Blue box - more wear on the spine towards the tip indicates a warp in the razor, imaging the tip raising towards from the bench.
As you can see, this simple test can really tell you a lot.

 

[rshaves]

Hello all,

Nasty crack and a chip here seems like (left). Your face will not thank you for using that. The tip could use a little more rolling. Tricky to get right, but just with practicing and looking at it, you can achieve a perfectly even scratch patter all the way. You just have to make sure to lock in that stroke once you find it.

I took another photo of that area, the crack looks more like a scratch (Image below) - I could be mistaken.

That said, after stropping the blade for some time, I did shave again last night. This shave was a lot smother and did heed the advice to keep moving the blade, however, still far from efficient. I'll go for round 4 tomorrow night.

Regarding re-honing, I'll swing down the hardware store this weekend and pick up a smooth/flat ceramic tile and some 220 or 250 grit sandpaper and attempt to rehone!

Question regarding honing/finishing on this SR.

• Kill the edge?
• Start with Norton on 8k side or 4k, then 8k?
• tape on spine or not?
• Just use the ILR?
  • Do I kill the edge first?
• Reset bevel?

Thank you guys for the assist.

If the Gold dollar is down while rehoning, I can attempt using my Bay State MFG SR.

I am learning a lot here and read a lot of forum posts and utube videos. Been watching Lynn Abrams and Dr Matt and others.

I am still doing one pass then going to my DEs for finishing/clean up. Still struggling to effectively get top lip and chin, but that will be learned.

Cheers!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Nope.

Yup.

Yup.

Nope.

Nope.

Yup.

Rock on!

 

[rshaves]

I may try shaving the the Gold Dollar one more time before rehoning, or just go with the Bay State. Game time decision.

Nope.

Yup.

Yup.

Nope.

Nope.

Yup.

Rock on!

• Kill the edge? = Nope
• Start with Norton on 8k side = Yup
  • or 4k, then 8k???
• tape on spine or not? = Yup
• Just use the ILR? = Nope.
  • Do I kill the edge first? = Nope.
• Reset bevel? = Yup.
  • I take it resetting the bevel is step 1 on the 8k stone...
• Use the ILR for Finishing stone?
• Test with packing peanut
• Strop
• Shave!

I'll mark the razor with a sharpie as the TheBeast mentioned above:

You can mark the spine and bevel with a sharpie, do one pass on the stone and see if you are removing it all the way. It can tell you a lot.

 

[rshaves]

Just got back from the big box home improvement store and picked up a 12"x12" smooth tile for a $1.47.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

What’s the tile for?

 

[rshaves]

What’s the tile for?

It's so I can use the that surface to place the sandpaper on and protect the table/surface that I'll lap the stones on. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

If you are lapping synthetic stones lap them in the sink under running water. It is much easier to lap with a diamond plate 3-400 grit.

Even inexpensive $20 plates from eBay, work well enough to lap.

Or get a 3X12 glass tile ($5) lap it flat with 220, and spray glue 220 to the glass tile and use it as you would a Diamond plate, works very well but will not last as long as a Diamond plate, some of mine are 10-15 years old and still going.

 

[rshaves]

If you are lapping synthetic stones lap them in the sink under running water. It is much easier to lap with a diamond plate 3-400 grit.

Even inexpensive $20 plates from eBay, work well enough to lap

I see many on ebay/Amazon that are 120/180 grit. Do you have any recommendations?

I thank you and everyone else for all your help!

Bob

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

You want at least a 3X8 inch plate, in the 400-600 grit range, be careful many of the inexpensive plates are only about 6 inches long and that is too short to lap an 8-inch stone.

eBay is selling an “S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone 2 Side Grit 400/1000 Diamond Plate Honing Stone”.

It is an interrupted, dual grit that should work fine and if you shop can find them around $20.

400 is a nice finish on a synthetic stone, some high girt stones you can finish/smooth with the 1k side once the 400 has got it flat.

Here is a photo of that plate.

 

[rshaves]

eBay is selling an “S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone 2 Side Grit 400/1000 Diamond Plate Honing Stone

Thank you! I just purchased one. I was under the impression that on must purchase a "lapping stone" such as DMT, atoma, or even the norton lapping stone


So I did my fourth shave today, but I decided to use my Bay State Razor after stropping it.

It actually felt really good. Still learning the angle which is different from the gold dollar since it's smaller. But did second and 3rd pass with DE.

Thank you all.

Bob

 

[TheBeast]

I think a "lapping stone" term includes those stones that have diagonal cutouts. I learned they are not very flat...

A very popular tool for lapping stones flat is what a lot of people call a diamond plate. Such as an atoma 400, which I like to use myself.

You can use pretty much whatever that can abrade your honing stones to flatten then, question is, how flat will you get them, and how will you make sure they are flat and in which tolerance.

If you rub a stone against an Atoma, it won't be flat to the tolerance of a straight edge that I bought for like 50 bucks (certified). In fact, if you put an Atoma against a straight edge, it's nowhere near flat enough for a naked eye. So, even with an Atoma, you kinda have to lap the middle of the stone a little more (atoma's tend to be a little concave) to get it to a point where you can't see light in between a straight edge and the stone. That also applies to those 20$ diamond stones.

Now it's completely up to you, what level of straightness you want to achieve, how much time, effort and resources are you going to invest in it. But if you don't have any means of measuring the straightness, it doesn't really matter if you lap the stones on a piece of sandpaper taped to glass, tile or marble, since you don't know how flat they are if you don't measure them. Or an Atoma or whatever else for that matter. Some people say, just mark the stone with a pencil and lap until it wears off evenly. But there will be slurry between the stone and lapping medium washing it off before the stone is flat and reflects the lapping medium's surface. (I measured it for myself with tiles and sandpaper, glass and sandpaper, cheap diamond plate, atoma plate).

Lots of people say they are just fine with lapping their stones with just sandpaper on glass/tile/marble, on just a cheap diamond plate or specifically an Atoma. Chances are, you will be as well.

Me personally, I opted for an Atoma 400 and a certified straight edge. It's nice to have and brings me a little satisfaction (I find it cool, personally). I would say practicing my honing, keeping the strokes consistent and understanding what each razors need was far more important to get better edges.

And what's best - once you get to a certain threshold of edge quality - you don't really care about the shaving angle. Spine touching skin no problem, will shave like that. And you can focus on being as light as possible with your razor, which ultimately makes it cutt better and without producing any problems like irritation.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yup, you can obsess about stone flatness all you want, and there is no harm in trying to get a stone flat-er.

But folks have been honing and shaving on straight razors for centuries, do you really think anyone was obsessing about stone flatness a hundred years ago?

Actually, until the late 90’s and birth of razor forums, no one cared about razor flatness or even stone progression, a synthetic stone was a 6k barber hone.

I doubt anyone could blind shave test a razor honed on a “Dead Flat” stone ground on a Diamond surface grinder and a stone that has been flattened on a sheet of 220 on a cement floor and tell one from another.

Put your ladder on the right wall, concentrate on setting a bevel and refining the edge, whatever it takes.

A pencil grid is good enough. And a surface grinder… is not flat.

 

[PH2]

Yup, you can obsess about stone flatness all you want, and there is no harm in trying to get a stone flat-er.

But folks have been honing and shaving on straight razors for centuries, do you really think anyone was obsessing about stone flatness a hundred years ago?

Actually, until the late 90’s and birth of razor forums, no one cared about razor flatness or even stone progression, a synthetic stone was a 6k barber hone.

I doubt anyone could blind shave test a razor honed on a “Dead Flat” stone ground on a Diamond surface grinder and a stone that has been flattened on a sheet of 220 on a cement floor and tell one from another.

Put your ladder on the right wall, concentrate on setting a bevel and refining the edge, whatever it takes.

A pencil grid is good enough. And a surface grinder… is not flat.

Agree 100%.

Nothing wrong with pursuing perfection, but DFS/BBS shaves are definitely possible with straight razors honed on sub perfect surfaces.

Same goes for taping razor spine.

There are those who swear that taping is necessary/required everytime you touch razor to stone.

Fact is taping helps preserve gold and other decorative designs over the spine. Taping can also help address warping and other geometry issues bringing an edge to shave ready quicker. Although a diamond plate can grind through these issues very quickly for a 1 and done fix without tape if you don't don't mind potentially sacrificing a bit of gold.

The long term results of taping is that the spine doesn't wear down while the blade edge does. This slowly changes the degree of the apex angle. Variables can also be compounded when multiple tape layers and layer lengths are applied on different spots of the spine.

This is fine for collector pieces and razors used rarely by those who have the time to meticulously correct with every touch up.

I understand the why of the argument to use tape. No hate being thrown around here. We all want our razors to look as close to new for as long as possible.

I've spent many hours playing with tape and Dovo razors. No longer have the patience for tape unless I'm working on a gift razor. Gold makes a nice presentation. Gold doesn't make the shave.

I also look back to our forefathers who used and maintained these razors over the centuries. I don't remember my grandfather talking about taping his razors. He never used a microscope to analyze blade edge either for that matter.

Absolutely nothing wrong with experimenting with different techniques and latest trends. There are countless ways to hone and finish a blade for every taste, however when it comes to learning to hone for yourself, nothing sums up the craft better than K.I.S.S.

 

[Sustainashave]

Congrats I can remember my first straight shave, Still get a buzz when I get some of my treasured razors out to play..

 

[rshaves]

Hello all! 5 shaves in and still learning. I did go for 2 WTG passes. I just received the S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone 2 Side Grit 400/1000 Diamond Plate Honing Stone. Question, could I use the 1000 side to set the bevel, if I needed to?

I also go a 30x loupe and did see teeth (toothing (is that word?)) on both SRs. I may have to hone both sooner and not later...

Have a great night!

 

[rshaves]

I was just about to lap the norton stone on the 8k side. I noticed that S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone is a more of 2.75" wide/7.8" height, so not a 1 to 1 in size to lap. I will make the pencil marks and use that as reference.

Regarding my ILR stone, the 3x8 ultra fine didn't come with a slurry stone. Do I need one? I'll lap the IRL stone with 1000 Grit side on the Diamond plate.

Bob

 

[rshaves]

Also, regarding my Bay State MFG Razor that was honed by R.E, that stated the following:

"Tape is used on all spines when using anything other than a finishing stone.
Electrical tape and one layer is what is used."
I assume they mean they used tape through the progression, with the exception of the finishing stone, is that correct? So, I have to use tape on Norton 8k (as well as the 4k if needed) in perpetuity, then remove the tap when I use the IRL? So if I just need to refresh on the IRL do I need to apply tape?

The tape I have #35 Electrical.

 

[rshaves]

Okay, so first attempt to hone the Gold Dollar razor last weekend. Sharpie mark on the blade, no tape on the spine. Did progression on the norton 8k (Axe, circle, x-strokes) until I could see the sharpie mark disappear (or so I thought), then used the IRL to finish. Stropped and shaved... Well, I discovered it wasn't shave ready...

Tonight, I'll attempt to rehone the razor, I'll most likely use tape on the spine as that is what R.E. did when they "honed" it to be shave-ready. Either that I'll place it on the 1k diamond to reset the bevel, and progress from 1k,4k,8k, then IRL...

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The heel is keeping half of the bevel off of or from making full contact with the stone, note all the deep stria on the bevel at the heel and the existing heel corner is not honed, (Black Arrow), likely never touched the stone.

You need to re-profile the heel to move the heel corner from the black arrow to the red line.

Note how the spine is not ground straight from the Red Arrow to the Green Arrow. That will change the bevel angle at the least and at most keep the heel bevel off the stone.

You are also honing on the tang (Blue Arrow) that completely lifts the heel off the stone and changes the bevel angle. Look at the bevel at the toe and note how the bevel changes at about the Orange Arrow. From here on back the bevel is not fully on the stone.

The bottom line is half of the bevel is not fully on the hone and not getting honed. You do not want to hone on the Right of the red line. Reprofiling the heel will allow you to hone on the Left side of the red line and fully cut a bevel.

Reprofile the heel and cut a new bevel, with the 1k. That the razor was honed with tape does not matter now, you have long ago wiped out the bevel that was originally honed on that razor. Doubt it was fully honed, by the look of the heel and spine.

You do want to learn to hone with tape, but with a Gold Dollar it does not matter as the spines are thick and generally ground uneven.

With Gold Dollars, this is not regular honing, first you must repair the razor so it can be properly honed.

Do not use a Diamond plate to hone on, you will only make deep stria that must all be removed. Doing more of the same thing and expecting a different result, never works.

HEEL CORRECTION – REPROFILING Made easy.