Help with an odd plumbing issue

[Brodirt]

Enough politics and economics, lets get onto a manly topic...home plumbing.

I have an odd issue I need help/suggestions with.

I have a bathroom out of commission for renovation and the family has been using a rarely used upstairs bathroom instead. It is a full bath and shower. Over the past few years there have been random leaks that flow through the ceiling below the this bathroom. With the newly increased heavier use of the bathroom I was concerned about greater leaks but they have remained as sporadic as before.

So, some mornings there are 4 showers and no leaks and some mornings there will be a leak. The leak will never occur on the first shower. The drain is slow, so much that the tub will fill 1/3 to 1/2 during a normal shower and the worst leak occurred on a day when I took a plunger in the shower with me and plunged the drain heavily.

The tub has the standard flip controlled drain and I tightened both the strainer cover on the drain and the control unit to the drain, which was very loose. I did not investigate the condition of the gaskets on either the drain or the control.

There are no obvious grout gaps where the water could pass through...there is a small gap/hole, maybe the size of a peanut, at the edge of the trim ring around the single control knob. The knob sits at about 3 feet from the base of the tub. There are no gaps or deterioration of the seal around the tub to the shower walls or to the floor.

Opinions please!

 

[lamontqsanford]

Does the bath/shower have a sliding door and/or tile at the base of the tub?

 

[RichGem]

To paraphrase Home Simpson, "TNT, the solution, and cause, of all of life's problems."

 

[Brodirt]

Does the bath/shower have a sliding door and/or tile at the base of the tub?

No door, curtain, and the floor is tiled. There are no apparent grout issues on the floor and we use a floor mat. The floor is never more than damp after the mornings showers.

 

[luvmysuper]

Your leak is likely in a piping connection downstream of the drain connection to the tub. The slow drainage is caused by build up, which causes water to remain in the piping at joints, as opposed to a trap, which has no joints.
Water is the perfect solvent, and over time, this has caused deterioration of the joint.
Your plunging of the drain created a higher pressure than the piping / joint would normally see with just the gravity drain of the water, and is the main factor in determining that there is a small leak in a drain line joint..

 

[sol92258]

Your leak is likely in a piping connection downstream of the drain connection to the tub. The slow drainage is caused by build up, which causes water to remain in the piping at joints, as opposed to a trap, which has no joints.
Water is the perfect solvent, and over time, this has caused deterioration of the joint.
Your plunging of the drain created a higher pressure than the piping / joint would normally see with just the gravity drain of the water, and is the main factor in determining that there is a small leak in a drain line joint..

that pretty much sums up my thoughts

 

[spanx]

check the pvc piping under the tub. there may be a hair line crack in the threading.

 

[Brodirt]

check the pvc piping under the tub. there may be a hair line crack in the threading.

There's the double rub...no access to underside of tub without employing the aforementioned TNT...no PVC, copper.

 

[jwhite]

The first thing I would do is try to get that drain moving. Use liquid plumber to free it up and check to see if the leak improves or worsens after that. If it persists it is likely that the seal around the drain fitting under the tub is corroded. This would mean tearing up through the ceiling under that bathroom and unless your home improvement skills are high is best left to a professional.

 

[spanx]

was it raining on the days that you saw leaks?I had an issue with a leak .I thought it was coming from the tub but when i finally tracked it down it turned out to be coming down the sewer vent.

 

[luvmysuper]

The first thing I would do is try to get that drain moving. Use liquid plumber to free it up and check to see if the leak improves or worsens after that. If it persists it is likely that the seal around the drain fitting under the tub is corroded. This would mean tearing up through the ceiling under that bathroom and unless your home improvement skills are high is best left to a professional.

the worst leak occurred on a day when I took a plunger in the shower with me and plunged the drain heavily.

If you do indeed have metal drain pipes and not PVC, then that really adds weight to the leaking joint theory. I agree totally on trying to use a chemical drain cleaner to free up the drain, that will at least let the water get past the leak faster than if it's sitting there against a build up or plug.

I also agree if you have a leaking drain line joint that tackiling this kind of job is not for the casual replace the ball float in the toilet kind of do-it-yourselfer.

 

[82R100]

I had a similar leak that was water trickling down along the front edge of the tub where it butted against the headwall, down to and through the floor.

We had the ceiling torn out to discover this. Fortunately, we got a good ceiling repair done and it's good as new.

- Chris

 

[Brodirt]

If you do indeed have metal drain pipes and not PVC, then that really adds weight to the leaking joint theory. I agree totally on trying to use a chemical drain cleaner to free up the drain, that will at least let the water get past the leak faster than if it's sitting there against a build up or plug.

I also agree if you have a leaking drain line joint that tackiling this kind of job is not for the casual replace the ball float in the toilet kind of do-it-yourselfer.

I did the Drano thing and it did not speed up the drain. I haven't gotten around to running a snake through yet.

 

[RichGem]

maybe try CLR in case its lime build up and not a huge fur ball causing the slow down?

 

[Brodirt]

maybe try CLR in case its lime build up and not a huge fur ball causing the slow down?

Does that work? Wouldnt it just flow right through?

 

[spanx]

I got to thinking (yes it hurt) and I remember my parents having a slow drain issuer.in the end it was trees growing through the main sewer drain.This affected all the drains in the house though.Is the bath the only drain that is slow?

 

[RichGem]

Does that work? Wouldnt it just flow right through?

Yeah, probably. but -- I think -- there's a foaming and/or thick version (not called clr, but does the same thing). OTOH, the regular CLR might work fine if you add it to the water backed up in the slow drain. <shrug> just guessin' on that one.

 

[82R100]

I got to thinking (yes it hurt) and I remember my parents having a slow drain issuer.in the end it was trees growing through the main sewer drain.This affected all the drains in the house though.Is the bath the only drain that is slow?

He mentioned that this is an upstairs bathroom. If it were tree roots in a sewer line, any drain at a lower elevation than the problem one would be backing up first.

My sewer line problems always show up in the floor drain of my basement guest room.

 

[jwhite]

There is a foaming drain cleaner that works well on some slow drains but if it is backed up too bad than it will just fill your tub with foam. Did all of the other cleaner go down and did you wait over night? running water too soon dilutes it and renders it ineffective. If all the drain cleaner did go in than you could try the foam. I'd resist snaking for now as it is likely to worsen ant joint or seal leak.

 

[Tolduonce]

You may want to try an enzyme/bacteria based drain cleaner. These aren't caustic or acidic and won't damage your copper plumbing. Simply follow the package directions and use for three consecutive days to biodigest all the gunk (shampoo, conditioner, soap, hair, etc.) in the drain and you should get good throughput. This may help get the water past any hairline crack faster. The first time I used the stuff, I put it down every drain in the house including toilets. It loosened so much muck that the main sewer line plugged up and I needed to have it snaked out. I should add that my house is approximately 35 years old and hadn't had the drains degunked in as many years. Use with care, a few drains at a time. Here's a link to the stuff I use (fourth from the top). Think I bought it at Home Depot or Ace Hardware.
http://www.zepcommercial.com/products.asp?category=11